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Old 07-08-2017, 09:43 PM   #21
TELECOOL
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Hey thanks Pete it's a shame they could not test this score they put them out in the field will watch for your response when you get the final results

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Old 07-08-2017, 09:44 PM   #22
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Before not score ..,sorry
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Old 07-09-2017, 06:11 AM   #23
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We've not been happy with our Montana since we bought it. No air flow, break and flex in the nose, banister wall broke loose from wall. Rear wall was never screwed to the floor and sidewall in back right. The list goes on. Went back to the factory and stayed 9 WEEKS! Since returning, flex is gone, but AC still sucks! Forget dealing with Keystone Customer Service. Will never own another Keystone product. Best of luck to you.
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Old 07-10-2017, 11:37 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by happy camper x2 View Post
okay
got a call from CW today all repairs or modification completed his morning. They pulled camper out on the lot and let the inside temp get up to 102 turned on a/c and in less than 4 hours it was 70 degrees inside. Do not know if both units or just rear was running..Due to work I will pick up Tuesday and post pics.
Pete,

Since I am also dealing with CW and same issue would you share the store name/location and maybe the Service Manager's name if this pans out to really be the fix so my CW can call them, use their experience and do same? Or send me an IM with that info please.

Thanks - Jeff
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Old 07-10-2017, 03:22 PM   #25
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can`t make this stuff up

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We've not been happy with our Montana since we bought it. No air flow, break and flex in the nose, banister wall broke loose from wall. Rear wall was never screwed to the floor and sidewall in back right. The list goes on. Went back to the factory and stayed 9 WEEKS! Since returning, flex is gone, but AC still sucks! Forget dealing with Keystone Customer Service. Will never own another Keystone product. Best of luck to you.
I've followed your saga from the beginning and find it hard to believe there are still people that defend this company. I get asked on occasion about what I think about my camper and Keystone, I have nothing good to say. I`ve been asked why don`t I just by another brand if I`m so unsatisfied with the unit. I just laugh and ask them , and what brand would that be there all junk. Went to Myrtle Beach last week for vacation and stopped by Camping world to pick up something and there was actually a line of people waiting to buy campers at the sales offices, all sitting there waiting their turn. We went out to the lot to look around and people were everywhere looking too so there`s the problem Keystone could care less if you bad mouth them and say you won`t buy another Keystone product, the salesman will kindly ask you to move aside because the guy standing right behind you will and they know that.
Just a note, my last camper (Forest River) ALL the walls started to separate at the corners at 5 years old, all 4, not heavily used always driven on asphalt.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:58 PM   #26
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I have purchased my last 3 campers from CW in Myrtle Beach. Until a few years ago they averaged 120 - 135 units monthly. Currently they are selling 225 - 245 monthly. Until this year I had service done at the sales location. Just too busy there now so I'm using the service only location now (there is a store there also, no camper sales). Notice they purchased the garage and Sonic business' at the sales location. Those buildings will be torn down and another building built on that land for sales. Myrtle is a destination for tourists and many units they sell are delivered to one of the many local CGs and are stored there, never towed. Others come from long distances to buy there. You can find a couple other camper sales lots in the area and a few more that deal in used units only as well. The dealers, including CW are always looking for qualified techs. Mobile techs are busy and there is room for more of them.
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by bshgto View Post
I've followed your saga from the beginning and find it hard to believe there are still people that defend this company. I get asked on occasion about what I think about my camper and Keystone, I have nothing good to say. I`ve been asked why don`t I just by another brand if I`m so unsatisfied with the unit. I just laugh and ask them , and what brand would that be there all junk. Went to Myrtle Beach last week for vacation and stopped by Camping world to pick up something and there was actually a line of people waiting to buy campers at the sales offices, all sitting there waiting their turn. We went out to the lot to look around and people were everywhere looking too so there`s the problem Keystone could care less if you bad mouth them and say you won`t buy another Keystone product, the salesman will kindly ask you to move aside because the guy standing right behind you will and they know that.
Just a note, my last camper (Forest River) ALL the walls started to separate at the corners at 5 years old, all 4, not heavily used always driven on asphalt.
I will defend them, because they did right by me. Any issues I had they fixed, One severe issue they picked up my trailer, brought it to the factory, repaired it, then delivered back to my dealer. My dealer has had all issues covered under warranty and has been excellent addressing my concerns. I truly believe a good dealer makes all the difference in the world. Also I have owned a few other brands of trailers and they all have issues. It is not just Keystone. All manufactures use the same components in the assembly of their trailers and sometimes those components fail. is it fair to blame the assembler or should we look at the manufacture? I agree sometimes these components are not installed per manufactures specs and this leads to problems. That is where the dealer comes in. When things need addressing a good dealer can get a lot of cooperation from the manufacture. I personally did not have any claims denied once my dealer sent the necessary pictures or documentation Keystone required. Every time I contacted customer service at Keystone, I always spoke to a person and they were helpful, They would tell me where in the approval process my claim was and if they were waiting on documentation from the dealer. I could then contact the dealer and push to get the required info sent to Keystone. I was polite, courteous and patient and in return that is the way they treated me.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:09 AM   #28
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I will defend them, because they did right by me. Any issues I had they fixed, One severe issue they picked up my trailer, brought it to the factory, repaired it, then delivered back to my dealer. My dealer has had all issues covered under warranty and has been excellent addressing my concerns. I truly believe a good dealer makes all the difference in the world. Also I have owned a few other brands of trailers and they all have issues. It is not just Keystone. All manufactures use the same components in the assembly of their trailers and sometimes those components fail. is it fair to blame the assembler or should we look at the manufacture? I agree sometimes these components are not installed per manufactures specs and this leads to problems. That is where the dealer comes in. When things need addressing a good dealer can get a lot of cooperation from the manufacture. I personally did not have any claims denied once my dealer sent the necessary pictures or documentation Keystone required. Every time I contacted customer service at Keystone, I always spoke to a person and they were helpful, They would tell me where in the approval process my claim was and if they were waiting on documentation from the dealer. I could then contact the dealer and push to get the required info sent to Keystone. I was polite, courteous and patient and in return that is the way they treated me.


I spoke with the service manager before buying my 1st camper at CW in Myrtle Beach about warranty service, He stated they try to educate the service writers as approve/disapprove comes from the way the claim is presented to any manufacturer. He also stated their volume provides some leverage but he is on speaking terms with warranty departments. Builders are also aware the regional manager will remove a line from the region and although Keystone and Forest River have many lines they do not want one removed and replaced with one from another builder even if several of their other lines remain. The dealer is the key on all warranty work.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:05 AM   #29
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can`t make this stuff up

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Originally Posted by cw3jason View Post
I will defend them, because they did right by me. Any issues I had they fixed, One severe issue they picked up my trailer, brought it to the factory, repaired it, then delivered back to my dealer. My dealer has had all issues covered under warranty and has been excellent addressing my concerns. I truly believe a good dealer makes all the difference in the world. Also I have owned a few other brands of trailers and they all have issues. It is not just Keystone. All manufactures use the same components in the assembly of their trailers and sometimes those components fail. is it fair to blame the assembler or should we look at the manufacture? I agree sometimes these components are not installed per manufactures specs and this leads to problems. That is where the dealer comes in. When things need addressing a good dealer can get a lot of cooperation from the manufacture. I personally did not have any claims denied once my dealer sent the necessary pictures or documentation Keystone required. Every time I contacted customer service at Keystone, I always spoke to a person and they were helpful, They would tell me where in the approval process my claim was and if they were waiting on documentation from the dealer. I could then contact the dealer and push to get the required info sent to Keystone. I was polite, courteous and patient and in return that is the way they treated me.
I really think you have missed the point . nobody is complaining about the furnace that failed after 3 uses or the landing gear that blows the valve the second time out, that`s a product failure and the responsibility of dealer to fix. Even if Keystone denies the repair your dealer will likely fix it just because they made $10,000 on the deal and the repair part is $100.00 dollars and it will keep you happy and maybe he will come back and buy another. That`s just good business sense. Parts will fail and just get replaced and Keystone will replace these type of problems with a smile on their face and you walk away a happy camper and say they did me good so I`ll buy again. All are cheap fixes for Keystone and they really have no way out. But you walk in with a roof that`s tearing off due to shotty workmanship from the factory and believe me your dealer won`t touch it until keystone authorizes the repair and agrees to pay for it. I have seen Keystone use the denies tactic first, then say you caught a tree branch then you didn`t do necessary maintenance they will stall in hopes the warranty runs out then say your out of warranty( this is an actual post, look for it you`ll find it) Keystone tired to pull this crap on me with the front cap fading issue. As I only won out of warranty ( they stalled me for 3 months then I was out of warranty) when I mentioned "Lawyer" in a sentence with Keystone and the dealer. If you read the 20 pages or so of Goldmedik ordeal you will see how Keystone and his dealer handled an expensive repair. Like I said they all play nice until it is expensive. Yes they are nice on the phone and they were to me too but they were blatantly lying to me to avoid a high dollar repair.
Not a good company.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:31 AM   #30
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I really think you have missed the point . nobody is complaining about the furnace that failed after 3 uses or the landing gear that blows the valve the second time out, that`s a product failure and the responsibility of dealer to fix. Even if Keystone denies the repair your dealer will likely fix it just because they made $10,000 on the deal and the repair part is $100.00 dollars and it will keep you happy and maybe he will come back and buy another. That`s just good business sense. Parts will fail and just get replaced and Keystone will replace these type of problems with a smile on their face and you walk away a happy camper and say they did me good so I`ll buy again. All are cheap fixes for Keystone and they really have no way out. But you walk in with a roof that`s tearing off due to shotty workmanship from the factory and believe me your dealer won`t touch it until keystone authorizes the repair and agrees to pay for it. I have seen Keystone use the denies tactic first, then say you caught a tree branch then you didn`t do necessary maintenance they will stall in hopes the warranty runs out then say your out of warranty( this is an actual post, look for it you`ll find it) Keystone tired to pull this crap on me with the front cap fading issue. As I only won out of warranty ( they stalled me for 3 months then I was out of warranty) when I mentioned "Lawyer" in a sentence with Keystone and the dealer. If you read the 20 pages or so of Goldmedik ordeal you will see how Keystone and his dealer handled an expensive repair. Like I said they all play nice until it is expensive. Yes they are nice on the phone and they were to me too but they were blatantly lying to me to avoid a high dollar repair.
Not a good company.
I don't disagree with you, all I was saying is A good dealer can get Keystone to authorize the repairs. I had a cracked sidewall, It took some time, but It was all repaired good as new.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:33 AM   #31
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Our last three units, a 2010, a2015 and now this 2017 were all purchased from the same dealer.
Did we have problems with any of them well of course we did.
In fact our last unit was on it third fridge failure. Two cooling units and one complete fridge replacement. To address these failures was not cheap for our dealer, Dometic or Keystone.
When we approached Keystone for a complete fridge replacement rather than a cooling unit we were dealt with in a very professional courteous manner and even when our frustrations ran high we dealt with them in the same manor.

Not sure how to explain after all these units, repairs and years we are still very happy Montana owners. One thing for sure it starts with a good dealer. JMHO.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:51 AM   #32
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Who decided this?

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Originally Posted by happy camper x2 View Post
Jeff
To back what Johnny V stated. They are adding two more returns and 2 to 4 more dumps to our 353. The tech states these units are choked down. They added one more return and the temp dropped 7 degrees within a few minutes. They are documenting each step hopefully a service bulletin well come from this and repairs will be a lor easier and who know they may fix them before they leave the factory.
I've read this on other threads that there are not enough returns and ducts per Dometic spec. I'm just wondering who you went through to get this approved? The dealer?
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:45 AM   #33
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I don't disagree with you, all I was saying is A good dealer can get Keystone to authorize the repairs. I had a cracked sidewall, It took some time, but It was all repaired good as new.
My dealership is 30 years old with more experience than most and as such sells more than anybody in the area, this is why I`ve bought from them more than once. After going though the night mare with Keystone I show up 2 months later to turn in my unit to be fixed ( this is the only opening they had for the rest of the year) the twit behind the desk said there is an Email from Keystone stating not to paint the front cap my unit was out of warranty now and it was a no go. Even though they approved the repair before and I could not get my unit in till now. Do you really think my experienced well funded dealer was going to pay for it? AS I said a conference call with Keystone the owner and me finally settled it. I should not have had to go through this. Gold should not have had to go through what he did.
Bad company, they sell on demand only not reputation, again demand only, a very sorry business model.
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:55 PM   #34
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okay
got a call from CW today all repairs or modification completed his morning. They pulled camper out on the lot and let the inside temp get up to 102 turned on a/c and in less than 4 hours it was 70 degrees inside. Do not know if both units or just rear was running..Due to work I will pick up Tuesday and post pics.

What did they do? Today it was 85 degrees in my camper with just the living area A/C running. We are on 30apms so I can't run both units. Tomorrow I will have the adapter I need to run the 30amp with the 115amp plug built into the adapter so I will be able to run both units on 45 amps.
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Old 07-11-2017, 08:35 PM   #35
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this the process they went through to fix camper a c




1. motherboard*
2. tape plenum to prevent churning of air at the a/c
clean out debris
3. check for correct location of a/c over plenum
4. put pvc pipe in return air ducts to keep open
5. extra returns and drops
they added two returns they came in about six inch toward the center from the existing returns and put two more drops in the kitchen on our 353.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:01 PM   #36
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8 amps
it's been a long process
once I got it through the head of the girls at the desk and the first tech that just because the split is 19 degrees it still will not cool the camper. the second tech had been to a dometic clinic and new that the unit was chocked down and worked with keystone to get it covered under warranty.went by yesterday and u could fill the air flow like other campers we have owned. will pick up tomorrow and us this weekend
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:24 PM   #37
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Which dealer do you use that now knows how to fix these AC units?
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:53 PM   #38
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We decided just before the holidays that we wanted to work more from our camping spot on the lake and have some additional room for the grand kids. We saw the Montana 3950BR at a RV show with the office and king loft and went to Camping World in Lowell Arkansas looking specifically for this model. 4 hours later we had traded our 2011 Open Range 316RLS for a 2018 Montana 3950BR... we are told it is the "best". 3 days later went back and picked up our new camper, did the walk through, left as "Happy Campers"

The Nightmare begins -
We get home, open it up to start putting all of our stuff in and immediately notice a deep scratch in the linoleum and looking under the slide a cut in the material under the slide. I take pictures and text salesman and know they left something on the floor (I suspect a screw near the theater seat they were working on) that caused this. Salesman promises call back from service... no call, next day no call and I call again at noon, finally a call at 4:45 day two. Service says, we can patch your linoleum... I say OH Hell NO. I call salesman, tell him to manufacture defect it and get me a new unit. He refuses, I escalate to management, get same story.

I have family coming in from 600 miles away and a camping spot reserved so I have to leave... the Nightmare continues...
Camping spot (like 75-85% of all lake spots) is 30A so I hook up with my adapter, crank on the rear air, and by noon it is 89 outside and screaming hot inside. Montana thermostat does not show inside temp, only set temp so off to town to get indoor outdoor digital thermometer. 2 hours later I see it is 89 outside and 86 inside. When it hits 93 outside and 90 inside we have to leave for the day because we can't take it. One air unit on will only scrub 3 degrees. This is our 3rd dual air 50A unit and never have we had to run the front air to keep the main cabin livable. Multiple calls to Camping World Service and I can't get help, then a call to KeyStone and Camping World sends out tech.

Nightmare Won't Stop -
In the interim, I get milk out of the refrigerator and find it is warm... fridge on max is 52 degrees inside and freeze pops put in 3 days earlier and not frozen.

Tech shows up, says air is fine, it is blowing at 50 degrees but agrees inside is hotter than hell says camper requires both airs operating because it is a common duct. We try adding front air fan only, and lose another 2 degrees. Running front A/C pops 30A breaker as I knew it would. Then tech tries to tell me 52 in fridge is within range but agrees freeze pops are not frozen. Then I google fridge temps and show him the FDA recommends no less than 40 degrees fridge and zero freezer.

Horror show goes on... family is coming in so I see my power pole has two 30 amp breakers and a 20 amp.. off to Home Depot. $105 later I have the material to make 2 30A males into a 50A female splitting the poles as needed. One hour later I have both airs running and high hopes..., it is a NO GO. Next day it hits 95 and it is 85-87 in camper, both air on and I can only scrub 7-10 degrees. Then my freaking front air quits, thermostat now reads 13 degrees and air is cycling on and off. Resetting it does no good, still shows 13 degrees (front only drops to 55 at lowest setting) so I know thermostat has lost its mind.

We struggle through holiday and drop camper at Camping World, guy says "maybe" have it back in 2 weeks.

My vacations are ruined, my wife and I are sick at guts over this purchase, and Camping World is the absolute worst.

So sorry for the saga, but what is your experiences with Camping World and anyone have a 3950BR, does your camper stay cool with one air or even two when temps hit close to 100. Oh, our camping spot was lakeside and shady most of the day.

Thanks - Jeff
Jeff,

Sorry to hear about your pains. I can say from experience, that one AC will cool that camper living area fine. When we are on 30 AMP, we run the main unit during the day, and at night, switch to the one upstairs. its quite comfortable. so something is up. Also, they have an adaptor you can but, made by furrioon, that will let you plug into (2) 30 amp plugs, or a 30 and a 20 amp, to get 50 AMOPS< we have it, works great, unless the 20 amp plug is a ground faulty, then it just pops it all the time. I also thought MY ac was not up to par, I modified my vents in the ceiling, and since then it has been MUCH better, I cut every other louver out of them so the air flow is less restricted. did wonders.
The fridge, well, I am just starting to encounter a slight issue with the temp. its not bad, but I notice the fridge is warmer than I would like on some days. Still looking into that. The scratches on the floor, I had that, turned out the brackets on the fridge slide were not strong enough. That's a heavy slide. It was dipping down when retracting, and scratching the floor. CW, after several times, replaced them with a heavier bracket that Lippert recommended. Hopefully, yours being a newer unit, it already has the heavier brackets. Good luck with everything. I know the fight sucks, in the end, though, both Keystone and CW did right by me, but it did take time, and it shouldn't have.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:04 PM   #39
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy camper x2 View Post
Jeff
To back what Johnny V stated. They are adding two more returns and 2 to 4 more dumps to our 353. The tech states these units are choked down. They added one more return and the temp dropped 7 degrees within a few minutes. They are documenting each step hopefully a service bulletin well come from this and repairs will be a lor easier and who know they may fix them before they leave the factory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy camper x2 View Post
Dixie Flyer
this the process they went through to fix camper a c




1. motherboard*
2. tape plenum to prevent churning of air at the a/c
clean out debris
3. check for correct location of a/c over plenum
4. put pvc pipe in return air ducts to keep open
5. extra returns and drops
they added two returns they came in about six inch toward the center from the existing returns and put two more drops in the kitchen on our 353.
Thanks, will try some of the things I can do (can't do the extra returns, etc). It was 84 degrees outside and never got below 78 inside with AC set on 67 and high fan. Humidity outside 39% and inside 35%. I even got up on roof to see if it was frozen but couldn't see anything that looked amiss but not sure what I would see if it was frozen up. Is that literal and you can see ice?
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