Auto chip

[MIMF]

mlh, been using the K&N ever since the truck was brand new. Have 2 of them and every 20 to 25,000 miles cycle them in and out of the truck. As soon as it comes out, it gets cleaned and "recharged". Also, in the mean time, I store it in a plastic bag until it goes in the truck. I have been thinking that since she has a little over 110,000 miles, the next service interval at the dealer, I might have them do a compression check on all 8 just to make sure all is good. Depending on what they tell me, will be an educational experience either way. Right? But, that may not happen until later this year until the wife retires and we get to do a little part-timing.

Do want to set-up an appointment at the dealer's body shop to have it "clay-barred", paint touch-up, buffed and polished later this spring. I'd sure like to have this truck still looking like new in a couple years when I trade 'er in. Right now, the few hundred dollars I spend every few months for maintanence and up keep is still a lot cheaper than the 5 or 6 hundred dollars I'd have to make on a new truck.

[mlh]

MIMF
Take your KN filter off. It should be clean and dry under it , if not that is what is going in your engine.
Lynwood

[Champ_49]

Raced cars as I have stated numerous times and I have in fact used the K&N filter. I never seen the power gain they claimed and it was a huge pain cleaning the filter almost weekly. After the cost of the filter, the oil to protect it etc, the paper filter was cheaper and did a good job as they have done for yrs. To me, not really worth it. But this was racing application so I might be talking out of context when it comes to the haulers.

Dave

[c214dick]

So now that we're on the subject of filters......... Does anyone use the "washable" air filters? If so, which one and is it worth the expense?

[MIMF]

mlh, the filter sits in the box at an angle. The outside air comes in from the bottom, gets sucked thru the filter and then, into the intake at the top. The top of the box or, cover has always appeared clean and also around the intake opening. No dust or oil collected in those areas. That is one of the reasons I'm thinking about having a compression check done on all 8 cylinders. If any dirt or dust has gotten into the cylinders to do any damage, compression should have drastically dropped and the dealer could tell me that.

[junglejim]

Dick, the washable filter is the K&N they are talking about.

I put one one my 6.0 Ford and wish I didn't. just because I felt it was wasted money in the fact that the stock system that Ford uses is a Donaldson filter rated for up to 500hp. And I did not notice a differance in power or mpgs when I switched. The sad part is I no longer have the stock set up to switch back to or I would in a heartbeat.

[mlh]

MIMF, I just wonted you to be careful and not ruin a nice engine. You will probably be OK if you don't live on a dusty gravel road like I do. If you check the compression and find its down the horse has already left the barn.
Jim you are wright the Donaldson it a hard fitter to beat. It is good for about 100,000 miles before it needs to be changed and will actually handle close to 700 HP.
Lynwood

[Tom S.]

I wouldn't use a K&N type filter if you paid me.

Time for some science, in particular, physics and flow dynamics. Take the square size of your air intake where the filter sits. Without a filter, you will get the maximum air flow. You will also get the maximum amount of dirt and debris. Adding a filter restricts the air flow, but it also restricts the dirt and debris, which is why the factory puts them on there. So, given that square size of the opening, there are only two ways to get more air through when using a filter. One is to increase the surface area of the filter, and the other is to make the filter material more porous. On the GM factory filter (sorry I don't know about Dodge or Ford), the factory uses a 'wound' filter system, similar to huge roll of toilet paper, with small spaces between each layer. This design gives the maximum amount of filtration, while allowing the maximum airflow. The K&N type filters on the other hand, use more porous material to obtain more air flow, but that also means it allows more dirt particles. What's interesting in this whole thing, is due to the design of the GM filter, it increases the surface area available to the air, and tests have proven it out performs the K&N in both flow and trapping ability. For proof, follow this link: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=117009

Now, someone is going to pipe up and say "I used a K&N for 100,000 miles and my truck runs great". That's nice. My great uncle smoked and drank and lived to 100. But the vast majority of people who smoke and drink don't last that long. Use whatever you want to in your truck, but I want mine to last as long as I can.

[richfaa]

We used the KN filter in our previous trucks with no problems we noted no increase in performance but we did not have to replace filterts. When we got this 08 Diesel we were advised by a reputable source, not Ford, that the Ford OEM filter performed better than teh KN so we did not purchase one. That was our experience.

[08UltraRider]

Mass Air Flow sensor (MAF) problems and K&N filters sometimes go hand in hand. It's human nature to over oil them when cleaning and this may grunge up the MAF.

Like Tom says... You couldn't pay me to use a K&N filter.

[PA5er]

Dick, I also tow with a 2003 Dodge with a ISB250 CR Cummins. As already stated, gages are a must. ET's, fuel transfer pump pressure to be sure the stock pump will keep the high pressure pump in fuel and a boost gage. IMHO, if you use a modual (AKA chip)or a downloader it doesn't take much to starve the CP3 high pressure pump which will defeat your purpose. Just some food for thought.
As far as a modual vs downloader, I have used both and prefered the downloader. I'm a MADS Smarty believer.
A modual lies to the computer by changing the voltage readings from the different component sensors. A downloader actually changes the perimeters in the computer. Im my opinion a much safer option. You can adjust about any perimeter or setting to your liking or driving habits. Visit "Dodge Cummins Forum" and search Smarty and visit MADS Smarty web site.
To be honest, when I tow, I do not use overdrive. This will increase the cruising RPM to around 2300 - 2400 RPM at 63 to 65 MPH which is right in the sweet spot for your cummins. Oh yea, it also settles in and doesn't shift much if any. Set the cruise and let her go up the hills and down.
For fella's with a warranty, becareful.

[c214dick]

Thanks PA5er. I was leaning toward the Smarty Jr as I found a lot more positives regarding it. I will check out the Smarty as well. I assume by your reply that you would recommend gauges separate from the downloader.

When we tow, under normal terrain, I usually keep it in OD. When i see a rise coming I adjust my acceleration accordingly and take it off cruise until we level off again. When driving grades I automatically shift our of OD and cruise until the terrain levels out. As I mentioned earlier we have driven Monteagle outside of Chattanooga which is about a 6% for about 5 miles. I hit the climb at 70 mph and peak at 55. I don't want to know how well it would pull if I trusted the cruise to do the thinking for me.

[PA5er]

I installed my after-market gages in an "A" pillar pod. I'm a firm believer in manual gages. Mainly the Pyrometer ET gage. A reputable diesel garage in your area will or should know how to install and place the probe in the correct position pre-turbo in the exhaust manifold. I will not exceed 1300* under any conditions.
Back to the Smarty. It made my Cummins real strong and has not kicked any codes since installation 4 years ago. I had code trouble with the modules. As the others have already said, I hand figure my mileage and really no benefit in MPG.
Good luck and don't be affraid to ask questions.
Bobby

[mlh]

You can learn a lot more from a complete set of gages than just what the individual gage reads. If fuel pressure drops, what happened? High pressure pump going bad or being starved for fuel, an injector or fuel line leaking fuel down in your oil. I check both engine oil and coolant temperature. Normally they should stay with in a degree or so of each other. If they start varying more then normal, say 2 degrees then 4 now 6 or 8 It could be something simple like a piece if paper over your oil cooler. It could be the cooler is getting stooped up. Or it could be your EGR is leaking coolant down in your oil. If that is the case and you don't catch it real quick you are going to need a new engine. I saw that happen to a truck. It took 4 days to to drain the oil out of it. Big dose of NOT GOOD and that will ruin your camping trip.
Lynwood

[danandbetty]

I know that some folks have some pretty strong negative opinions about "chips" and "tuners". I used to because the claims seemed to defy logic. I thought, how can you get better MPG from "more" HP. It stands to reason that when you add HP you would use more fuel. I drive round trip between Sterling, Alaska and Southern, Texas (as well as plenty of other wanderings 8 months of the year) every year and I watch my fuel consumption closely.

In my 07 6.7L cummins Dodge I have a 109 gal transfer flow fuel tank in addition to my truck's regular 35 gal tank. So I have 144 gal capacity. However, I never drive it until it's dry - I usually buy something around 130 gallons of diesel at a time. After modifying my truck I now get around 400 miles more out of that approximately 130 usable gallons.

My overall truck performance in terms of power is hugely improved (it feels like my truck will pull this trailer right up a tree...just joking).

I also should mention a couple other considerations.

1. The exhaust is a little louder.
2. The modifications I've done pretty well wrecks the warranty (mine was already nearly expired).
3. The modifications necessary for this much gain defeats the emission control system which is a problem for those licensed in some states like California.
4. Some folks will claim it will ruin your engine...I've had no problems so far.
5. Some folks will say the expense doesn't justify the gain but for me, one more trip home and I will be past the cost/benefit hump. After that I will have direct savings along with better performance.
6. Some folks will say that if these types of modifications were good then the truck manufacturers would be doing it at the factory. The truth is that manufacturers have emission control and other legal and compliance issues to deal with.

Admittedly, I probably was more conscious of my driving habits (that effect MPG) after the mods but overall I don't believe that alone can account for the difference. I DO have to more actively manage shift points (68RFE 6 speed auto tranny) to prevent over torquing the transmission after the modifications, however. No more cruise control and let it do what it wants with this combo.

I should mention that the best mileage for my truck and trailer combo has panned out to be on the highest HP setting on the Mini Maxx tuner. This tuner has 4 settings 1=stock, 2=60 hp increase, 3=120 hp increase, 4=180 hp increase. These figures come from the manufacturer no me....I haven't had anything tested and they may well be hugely false claims but I sure get better performance and mpg at the same time.

All this is just my experience. I'm no rocket scientist so I can't explain it and I know it defies logic.

[c214dick]

Dan, did you do all these mods at once? If not which did you do first and was it based on personal preference or recommendation of others? Were you able to determine which mod was the most advantageous?

Thanks

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by danandbetty

I know that some folks have some pretty strong negative opinions about "chips" and "tuners". I used to because the claims seemed to defy logic. I thought, how can you get better MPG from "more" HP. It stands to reason that when you add HP you would use more fuel. I drive round trip between Sterling, Alaska and Southern, Texas (as well as plenty of other wanderings 8 months of the year) every year and I watch my fuel consumption closely. In my 07 6.7L cummins Dodge I have a 109 gal transfer flow fuel tank in addition to my truck's regular 35 gal tank. So I have 144 gal capacity. However, I never drive it until it's dry - I usually buy something around 130 gallons of diesel at a time. After modifying my truck I now get around 800 miles more out of that approximately 130 usable gallons. Here's my actual experience before and after installing the following modifications: H&S Mini Maxx downloader/tuner, Turbo back 4" Exhaust/DPF delete, EGR/cooler delete, AFE cold air intake.

Before mods: I monitored gallons of fuel consumed over 5850 miles of towing (Monty) I used 644 gallons of diesel. If you do the math that's a 9.1 MPG average.

After mods: I monitored gallons of fuel consumed over 6132 miles of towing (Monty) I used 421 gallons of diesel. Doing the math that comes to 14.7 MPG average.

The fuel savings pans out to be something around 200 gallons over about 6000 miles which equals about $740 savings at $3.70 per gallon.
Often I've had to pay more for fuel but sometimes have been able to find it for less so it all evens out.

My overall truck performance in terms of power is hugely improved (it feels like my truck will pull this trailer right up a tree...just joking).

I also should mention a couple other considerations.

1. The exhaust is a little louder.
2. The modifications I've done pretty well wrecks the warranty (mine was already nearly expired).
3. The modifications necessary for this much gain defeats the emission control system which is a problem for those licensed in some states like California.
4. Some folks will claim it will ruin your engine...I've had no problems so far.
5. Some folks will say the expense doesn't justify the gain but for me, one more trip home and I will be past the cost/benefit hump. After that I will have direct savings along with better performance.
6. Some folks will say that if these types of modifications were good then the truck manufacturers would be doing it at the factory. The truth is that manufacturers have emission control and other legal and compliance issues to deal with.

Admittedly, I probably was more conscious of my driving habits (that effect MPG) after the mods but overall I don't believe that alone can account for the difference. I DO have to more actively manage shift points (68RFE 6 speed auto tranny) to prevent over torquing the transmission after the modifications, however. No more cruise control and let it do what it wants with this combo.

I should mention that the best mileage for my truck and trailer combo has panned out to be on the highest HP setting on the Mini Maxx tuner. This tuner has 4 settings 1=stock, 2=60 hp increase, 3=120 hp increase, 4=180 hp increase. These figures come from the manufacturer no me....I haven't had anything tested and they may well be hugely false claims but I sure get better performance and mpg at the same time.

All this is just my experience. I'm no rocket scientist so I can't explain it and I know it defies logic.

If one of your modifications was removal of the catalytic converter, then you are illegal in all states, not just California. Having said that, if you live in a state that doesn't do any emission testing, then I don't know how you would ever be caught.

[richfaa]

Those MPG numbers are very unusual with thevchip. Sure would like to know hat you did and how you did it??

[mlh]

Rich I don't know about the Dodge but I can guaranty you will not get that increase with your 6.4 Ford but you WILL be able to pass any gasoline powered truck on the road, but then again you can do that now, if you wont to but I know you dont wont to.
Lynwood

[danandbetty]

c214dick:

I did all the modifications at the same time so I can't say which ones causes which results. I suspect that opening up the intake and exhaust probably was the single best improvement but for sure all the emission control stuff was really sucking the power out of the engine.

richfaa:

what I did was way more than adding a simple chip and cost nearly $1800 (probably more than is cost effective). Here's my mods:
1. H&S Mini Maxx downloader/tuner added
2. 3" stock exhaust removed from the turbo back and replaced with a 4" stainless steel mandrel bent exhaust
3. Diesel particulate filter left off new exhaust system
4. EGR & cooler removed and connections capped off
5. Stock cold air intake removed and replaced with an aftermarket AFE cold air intake
6. Diesel fuel additive (from Walmart) used to clean injectors in about 50% of the fuel burned

I see no reason why the performance improvements I got from these modifications can't be replicated in any 1 ton cummins 6.7L dually. I don't think there's anything special about the truck I started with so it should work the same for any truck like it if the same mods are used and it's operated the same. (wish I had a cummins with an Allison behind it!)

I AM careful to drive in ways that should give me the most fuel economy.

...I do not use cruise control unless I'm on flat hwy.
...I run in the highest power setting on the Mini Maxx (many trials have proven to me that for this truck its the most economical setting)
...I do not run the engine below about 1600 RPM at any time while towing on the hwy or going thru a town (lugging in this truck uses more fuel and starts to overtorq the Dodge tranny)
...I manually shift from 6th to 5th (without allowing the high rev between gears) BEFORE starting into uphill grades that I suspect will cause a downshift (ie. prevent the high engine revs that normally occurs when an automatic transmission downshifts itself half way up the hill).
...I try to not drive over 62 MPH (1600 RPM in 6th gear on the level or 1900 RPM in 5th gear on grades), and then let it runaway a little on the downhill side where I can pick up a little MPG boost.