Nitrogin in tires

[sailer]

What is the thought on nitro in the truck and 5th tires,, i have had the truck done 2 months ago and it is much smother than air and never moves from 80 psi now with new tires on the 5th i am thinking it the 5th also ,, come on tire guys

[dieselguy]

What happens when you are out in Dooh Dah USA needing to top off a tire or two and the only nitrogen they know about is what makes their crops grow better?

[FLSTS03]

John,
Just keep a 40cu ft nitrogen bottle w/ a purge reglator. Cost < $200 for the setup and about $9 each time to refill bottle. 40 cu' og Nitrogen has prox 2700 lb in tank that can be regulated to flow whatever you want to set it at. Run air tools and top off tires in a heartbeat. You allways mix air and Nitrogen if needed, kinda defeats the purpose though.

Seve

[Glenn and Lorraine]

Personally and with no real experience I think there is only 1 advantage to using nitrogen as an inflation medium.
Nitrogen has a larger molecule than some of the elements in air so the gradual air loss is lower but until it is as readily available as plain old air I ain't wasting my bucks on it.
As far as a carrying a nitrogen bottle, in my opinion, it is an additional cost and as a full timer I am trying to lessen my costs and lighten the load I carry not add to it.

I don't think the advantages are worth the price for normal usage. Maybe for cars in a museum or for racing.

I feel the reason nitrogen is being marketed is that many people have heard that racers use nitrogen. Well, that's true, but the reason they do is that they don't carry an air compressor to their pit to power their impact wrenches - they use a nitrogen bottle - so they also use this to inflate their tires. Plus many racers don't regularly clean out their air storage tank and water gets into the lines and then into the tools and tires. Water in an impact wrench can cause a team to lose the race. Water in the tires. When that happens the pressure buildup is erratic and unpredictable, hence the myth that nitrogen is better.

[Snownyet]

Its a money maker! The air we breath is 78.08% nitrogen by volume, the 21% oxygen and .92% of other gasses arent doing your tires any harm, in fact its worked great since ties were invented and for the most part its free or nearly free and its everywhere. Additionally Im relatively certain theres no way a vehicle rides smoother with nitrogen, 80psi in a tire is 80 psi in a tire, maybe helium or hydrogem might change the ride but not a gas so similar to the one weve been using forever. The people pushing nitrogen can give you all kinds of reasons as to why its better, but the biggest reason is because it puts more money in someones pockets.

[LonnieB]

I have a pretty good reputation around here built on my honesty, and integrity. It is something I am proud of, and something I will not compromise.
Currently, I don't have a nitrogen set up in my tire shop because I feel it is just another way to pull money from the pockets of the uninformed, or unsuspecting public. Unfortunately, it's something I will have to someday do, as more and more people bigin running nitrogen in their tires. Will I recommend it? No. Will I sell it if someone wants it? Yes, but with reservation.
Just my opinion.

[richfaa]

we all would rather fall for marketing instead of doing a bit of research on the subject.The marketing folks are selling a product so of course it is better. Just like the Dicor roof folks who will recommend nothing more than dish soap to clean the roof but since folks insist upon usimg the expensive stuff dicor makes the expensive stuff and will sell it to you if you insist.. and they readily admit that at their seminars.

"The Earth's atmosphere is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth and retained by the Earth's gravity. It contains roughly (by molar content/volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, trace amounts of other gases, and a variable amount (average around 1%) of water vapor. This mixture of gases is commonly known as air... " So when we put "air" in our tires it already contains 78% Nitrogen. More

"http://www.straightdope.com/columns/070216.html

[bigmurf]

What was that about one born ever minute?

[racerjoe]

Sailer, I agree with you mostly on the nitrogen. Your tire pressure stays consistant,summer and winter. You know how your tires lose some pressure in the cold weather, well with nitrogen it stays the same. A benefit in the winter months. I have had it in my truck for over two years now with no loss of pressure. In reality, how many of you really check your tire pressure like you are supposed to? Not as many that will admit it. If you are in "tin buck Too" and you do have a leak, you put air in your tire,just like always. There is supposedly,and I can't prove it less rolling resistance with nitrogen also.
All the guy is doing is asking for suggestions,and he may even be right!!! There are pros and cons to everything we do and I am sure nitrogen falls into that catogory also."just my opinion"

[MacDR50]

I use nitrogen in closed pneumatic systems as it is less likely to leak past seals, is perfectly dry, does not support combustion and it is not an oxidizer. I also use it to purge open systems to dry them before storage. If you are constantly using a system with raw air you can expect some oxidation of internal metal parts and surfaces. This will be most pronounced in pressure tanks, low points and other areas where condensed water accumulates. When drawing from these systems a portion of the condensate as well as water vapor may be carried over into the air supply. In these cases the amount of water carried over is much greater than found in the external air. I have seen air supplies that could be called "wet". If these are being used to fill a tire then that water will remain inside the tire. Added to the oxygen in the air itself this will lead to increased oxidation of the internal wheel surfaces. Using nitrogen instead of air will prevent this but a simpler solution, albeit less perfect one, is to use air that is from a source that has no tank to accumulate water or one that has a drier in the outlet line. Regular draining of pressure tanks also helps but unless your own you have no control over this.

[sailer]

Thanks Roger ,, that made a lot of sence, but i know the truck tires are never up or down always at 80psi ,, also if needed you can add air anytime on the rd ,, its only a thought its not a battlel to see who is rite or wrong

[Bob Pasternak]

For our car it was $25 for all 5 and that is the only charge as long as we own the car. (We also get free washes) The dealer checks and fills if needed at service times. As for the truck, I have it serviced and rotate tires every 5000 miles and, since there's no way I'd run 80 # in my steering tires, I'd have to pay someone every month to air and adjust my tires.

[sailer]

Why do you feal 80 psi in the ft tires is tooooooooooo much ,, i still feal since we went to nitro in the truck in feb it stays at 80 psi never up or dn 1 pd and the ride on bad rds even here in the keys of fl we feal its better than air ,, this am the trailer tires were dn 2 to 3 lbs so before leaving bionita we had to air up to 80 ,, now we will sit here 5 days then i will see what they do if they are at 80 on the monta or less , i know the truck will be rite on john

[buschet1]

Sailer, I brought this subject up on a thread about Tire Pressure Monitors. Because I use nitro in my truck tires. On recent trips I noted that the truck tires stayed at 80psi and the tire temp ran about 70. On the trailer which does not have nitro (yet) the tire pressure varied 8 to 12psi and the temp also varied by almost +20. Each tire on the trailer seemed to have a little different psi and temp reading. The trailer tires I always set to 80psi cold. I think maybe the moisture in the trailer tires is causing the varied readings. And speed had an effect on the readings as well. Personally I feel better having the nitro in my tires. If for some reason they need top off, I just use air like everyone else. When I got back home I just go to my dealer tell them what happened and they deflate the tire and refill it with nitro. Takes about 10 minutes. Had to do this twice. They found a bad valve stem that was causing the problem and they replaced it. No problem since. Good luck in this battle.

[richfaa]

Tom..Your post reveals interesting information that requires more research on my part. We have had the tire pressure monitors on the 3400 for nearly two years now and have driven at various speeds under various temp. That the nitro filled tires remained at a low constant temp is interesting,,I have to find out why that is.. As for our camper tires the psi will vary depending on speed and heat build up. With the psi set at 80 we have thus far never seen 90psi execpt once when we had low pressure in one tire. If Nitrogen tends to keep the tire temp down that would be a good thing..Does anyone have the technical explaination for that???

[Snownyet]

Rich I think it depends on the quaity of the air source, if a tire shop doesnt regularly drain its compressor tanks and/or use an in line air drier you could end up with unnessary moisture in the air, as the tire heats and the air inside heats the moisture expands and can cause pressure to increase. Ive seen shops with air so wet you can see the vapor when using a blow gun on the end of a hose. That I can say would be one advantage to Nitro, it does come from a known dry source. Im still not a believer in paying extra for it, if tire pressure is checked regularly, and for our own safety it should be done regardless of the product in the tire, than I really cant see why I should pay someone extra for something that time has proven isnt a necessary item.

[Bob Pasternak]

Sailer: (John) Most of the tire companies are now putting realistic running pressures on tires. If you do a "pressure/load capacity' search for most of the manufacturers they will give give tire pressures for a given load. I assume your tires are similar to mine. I have 265/70R17 on my truck. Now the sidewall a maximum inflation pressure of 80# and load max. of 3495 lbs. That, in essence, is 6900 lbs on the steering. When's the last time your steering axle weighed 6900 lbs. That's almost the weight of your entire truck. I run 55 lbs. all around except when towing. Then I run the rears at 70. At 80# you feel every crack or notch in the road and it will your beat your vehicle to pieces. And I am sure there are a few that are going to jump all over me for my theory, but that is how I do it. The large trucks don't change their pressure because they may switch loads/trailers/whatever every few hours so it is not practical.

[buschet1]

richfaa,

Check out this site for more info on nitrogen

http://www.getnitrogen.org/sub2.php?view=print

[MacDR50]

The divers should dive in here heh heh. A gas's volume expands proportionally with temperature increases. If held in a closed container you will see an increase in pressure. The amount of water that can remain in vapour form in a given volume of air is again associated with temperature but I don't believe it is a straight line relationship. The colder the air the more likely that the moisture will condense to liquid water. The warmer the air the more water held in vapour form. Now I am about to stretch this out without being so sure about my conclusions. I invite anyone correct me if I am wrong. I think that water molecules in vapour form displace more volume than in water form which may account for some of the higher pressure in a tire filled from a "wet" source. In addition, they retain heat so this would account for a higher sustained temperature in a tire. Nitrogen charged tires would not have water vapour inside them and would be less likely to heat up or significantly increase pressure. A nice theory but it could all be wine induced musing. Where is Isaak Newton when you need him?

[richfaa]

With the 3400 ties at 80 PSI we have not seen them go over 90 psi no matter what the temp or speed. The normal reading on the pressure pro is @ 85/87psi. We do shoot the tire temp on stops and have not been concerned about the tire temp. Our 3400 tires held 80psi while it sat in Florida C.G for 4 1/2 months. It is a rare occasion that we need to add air during the season and it is easy to check everytime we start up with the pressure pro system. However..If Nitrogen will keep the heat down that is a huge safety factor as heat is the killer of tires..We have not seen any data on that?????