Air bags feedback - Page 3 - Montana Owners Club

Searchers · 03-07-2007, 03:28 AM

Dave,

I had air bags installed on my 1995 Ford about 2 weeks after I bought it 12 years ago when I picked up our new 11' Lance camper. The truck now has 74,000 miles on it hauling the camper to Alaska and on other rough roads, as well as the Montana. I don't have an onboard compressor and run the bags completely empty when not packing a load. I don't recall what the warranty is on them, but I've had no issues with any of the components.

In my opinion the side to side stability is improved greatly with a camper loaded, but don't think this is even an issue with the Montana. I've experienced no harsh ride, bouncing, uneven tire wear, chucking or frame flex issues. The installation time claimed on airbags surprises me too. As I recall mine were installed in the time it took to walk across the street and eat breakfast, but that was without installing a compressor.

Now, the disclaimer. These are my personal experiences only and are not intended to influence your decision.

Don

Montana Sky · 03-07-2007, 04:14 AM

Don,
Thank you for sharing your experience. From all the research I had done you confirmed my original findings. Still looking at the Super Springs, but leaning more towards the air bags if I do anything.

Connorsmom · 03-07-2007, 09:34 AM

Montana,
The guy at CW also neglected to tell you that if you have the gauge installed in the cab, the two year warranty on the bags goes to a LIFETIME warranty.

Jan

ols1932 · 03-07-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Montana Sky

I wanted to get bags and on board compressor w/ front to back leveling only installed on my truck. The fella from CW had the following negative things to say about installing airbags on my truck.

1. cause the rear end to bounce when empty. (even if you drop the bags to 5 lbs)
2. the bouncing will cause uneven tire wear.
3. the bags only have a 2 year warranty on them. He claims the average bag life is 4 to 5 years
4. the bags will cause the truck & coach to rock side to side when the coach is hitched. I have NO stability issues right now!
5. the on board compressors will last approx 2 years or so.
6. the harsh ride of the bags can cause a chucking motion.
7. the harsh ride of the bags can cause frame flex issues on the coach over time.

From my experience with air bags over the past 3 years:
1. Have noticed NO noticeable bounce when empty.
2. No abnormal tire wear.
3. Bags are already over 3 years old.
4. Have never had any side to side rocking when hooked up.
5. Don't have the on-board compressor.
6. No chucking motion but I have the TrailerSaver Hitch which prevents chucking.
7. Rig is almost 7 years old and have had no flex issues.

Whenever I question someone about a product they are selling, I always cringe when they start "bad mouthing" competitor's products and boast about their own. I can't remember when I bought a product from someone who spoke badly of competitor's products.

Orv

Montana Sky · 03-07-2007, 11:40 AM

Jan,
I asked him about that. He said the bag warranty would still be 2 years, but the installation warranty would be lifetime. Since this contradicts everything you have told me, I asked the fella "how long have you worked for CW?" "10 years was his response!" I just find it hard to believe that your CW has different policies and rules than the one in Seattle. Funny how that goes...

Orv,
The problem is, he sells both products. He was just sharing his experience with the air bags vs super springs. The funny part of the whole thing is the product he was RECOMMENDING actually cost $375 less than the air bags and on board compressor I was going to have installed. Since they would be loosing money by me going with the super springs, I am still trying to figure out what his angle was/is; if any??

rickety · 03-07-2007, 11:48 AM

JAN, as stated by others, you only use the compressor to adjust things, when YOU want to. It's not automatic. I will be adjusting mine befor I load in Gizmo (ferocious dog) and DW. Both tend to get excited at strange noises, including my snoring.
I run about 2 pounds of air empty. I have noticed no rear end hopping at all

Hope this helps you
Rick

Gonfishin · 03-07-2007, 12:29 PM

Dave, You might double check to make sure the springs do not change your ride height when empty. MY folks have a truck just like yours and they are running an aftermarket overload spring. The problem they have is the rear of the truck is so tall that when unhitching it almost comes in contact with their 5er. His truck is a 2 wheel drive and mine is a 4wd and the bumper on his truck is at least an inch or two taller than mine. If you would like I can find out what manufacture his overload springs are.
Rick.

Montana Sky · 03-07-2007, 04:17 PM

Rick,
Thanks for the heads up! I asked about the super springs altering the factory ride height of my truck? The salesman said no, they set the springs to ride "level" at the factory height and then as weight is applied to the suspension they kick in and provide up to 4" of lift. If you happen to have the time, I would like to know what brand your folks are running.
Thanks~ MS

Dave e Victoria · 03-07-2007, 04:51 PM

You know, I hate to be a cynic but I don't get it. How are the super springs any different than any other overload spring? I went to "How they work" on the web site and all I see is marketing hype and platitudes. According to MS, the sales man said, "and then as weight is applied to the suspension they kick in and provide up to 4" of lift." Now just how does this happen. There is no active element so the only 4 inch effect has to be the difference without springs to the difference with these springs. That is the same thimg overloads of any kind including timberlins do. There is nothing here to "kick in" except an additional spring constant. So, what am I missing??
Dave

skypilot · 03-07-2007, 05:11 PM

Seems like the Timberlins would be the way to go if you don't want to adjust anything. Reading their website, (and looking at my Dodge 3500 4X4 dually), the Timberlins simply replace the stock rear suspension bumpers and then, instead of having about 3 inches of air space, I have the Timberlins providing cushioning as soon as I get any compression. As my truck drops about 3 inches when I hook up, I am now thinking of these as well (I like 'dodads' though so I still like the idea of the air bags with gages and compressor - more things to fiddle with

. )

richfaa · 03-07-2007, 05:41 PM

We had the C.W air bags on our previous truck..We did not tow a 5th wheel but a TT.

My experience using these as a guideline was.

1. cause the rear end to bounce when empty. (even if you drop the bags to 5 lbs)
2. the bouncing will cause uneven tire wear.
3. the bags only have a 2 year warranty on them. He claims the average bag life is 4 to 5 years
4. the bags will cause the truck & coach to rock side to side when the coach is hitched. I have NO stability issues right now!
5. the on board compressors will last approx 2 years or so.
6. the harsh ride of the bags can cause a chucking motion.
7. the harsh ride of the bags can cause frame flex issues on the coach over time.

Did not notice rear end bounce and did run them at 5psi when not towing
Did not experience uneven tire wear
The bags were on the truck for 8 years without problem and as far as I know are still on the truck
Did not have a On board commpressor
Item 6& 7 do not apply to a TT.4 probably does not apply.
The truck did ride stiff in the rear..but then again..it is a truck///

We had no complaints about the CW bags.

Montana Sky · 03-07-2007, 07:48 PM

Dave,

To quote their website, "As a vehicle with rear leaf springs comes under load the factory springs react as they are designed too. The center of the springs move vertically causing the overall leaves to flex and “flatten” out. This movement in the factory spring activates the SuperSpring through the rollers at the end of each leaf. Because the SuperSpring rollers are under tension, a movement in the factory spring causes them to move, seeking their new point of least resistance. This simple roller principal allows the SuperSprings to activate and deactivate automatically, free of any manual adjustment." Under the product guide on their web page they have an illustrated picture showing how the super springs work.

I am pretty sure that after further research and reading if I do anything it will be having the air bags installed. That was my original plan, and one I feel most comfortable with. Still find it most interesting that the Fife, WA Camping World recommends the super springs over air bags...

Connorsmom · 03-08-2007, 02:32 AM

Dave, this is not CW warranty...it's Air Lift's warranty. It states the same warranty in the parts catalog I have from Mid-West Truck. It states..."Full two year limited air spring warranty...NO MILEAGE RESTRICTION!! Extend your standard two year air spring warranty to a full limited lifetime warranty when air springs are installed with an Air Lift on board air system."

I'm going to talk to the tech at this CW when I go this morning to see what he says about air bags -vs- Super Springs. This is interesting...:-) I'll let y'all know what he says when I get home.

Jan

Dave e Victoria · 03-08-2007, 03:16 AM

Montana Sky. The description for super springs is precisely how overload springs work except rather than a roller, they have a hanger bars on the ends which slide instead of rolling. It is amazing what marketing departments can come up with. I think you will be very happy with the airbags
Dave

richfaa · 03-08-2007, 04:28 AM

Shazam Dave there you go confusing the issue with facts and Logic.

Montana Sky · 03-08-2007, 07:23 AM

Jan,
I look forward to hearing the information you receive from CW.

Dave,
I am going to follow you on this and go for the air bags if I do anything. I figure if they can handle the weight of your Cambridge then my little Montana will be no problem. =)

Connorsmom · 03-08-2007, 07:56 AM

Okay, the tech I dealt with at CW said just the opposite. He said he would go with the Air Bags -vs- Super Springs. He totally disagreed with the other techs reasoning. He said that personally, he wouldn't go with the Super Springs mostly due to the fact that you can't do anything to adjust them. The way they are, is the way they are. With the air bags, you can adjust them accordingly. (On edit: Like many things, I guess this falls under personal preference).

In regards to a rougher ride, I didn't notice any difference whatsoever on my way home. The bags are set at 5 lbs, and I was on two freeways, surface streets, a side road, and the apartment complex roads. I noticed nothing different.

I also went with the 3 year extended warranty on the Controller II gauge and compressor for $29.00. This way, they're covered for a total of 5 years, and the air bags are covered for life. I ended up having the compressor installed WAY up into the frame. There wasn't enough room under the hood, plus it needs to be away from heat. I had the gauge installed down low on the dash. There is a recess area in the center, under the temp controls, so it sets in and out of the way.

The tech said typically I would probably be around 60-80 lbs when hooked up to the Monty. He said with my truck, I probably don't notice the truck "sink" much when the Monty gets hooked up. He said to just put in enough air to raise it back to where it was prior to hooking up. Sounds easy enough to me. Now, I just need the Monty to be done so I can go pick it up...:-) I'm looking forward to seeing the difference when I tow. I'll give a report on that when the time comes. So far, so good...:-)

Jan

Charlie · 03-08-2007, 09:00 AM

One word of caution.....just remember when you set the Montana on the truck the air bags will compress and the air pressure will increase, so no need to have 60-80# before you start. On mine I set at 20# before attaching the trailer. With the trailer on the hitch it has increased to about 45#. Would not want you to blow out the bags on the first application. You can always increase the pressure accordingly until you get the feel of where they should be.

Searchers · 03-08-2007, 09:42 AM

Jan,

I agree with Charlie. I run my bags at 0 pressure unloaded at increase them to 20-24 pounds BEFORE hooking up.

Don

GregN · 03-08-2007, 11:38 AM

Of those that have put the bags on your trucks, for the do it yourselfer, about how long did it take you, and where did you run the fill line to, those without the compressor?

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