Ford/Caterpillar rumor - Montana Owners Club

sreigle · 01-01-2008, 05:04 AM

This is probably rumor at this point but I read an article about the Ford/Navistar dispute that had the following comment. This could just be positioning for getting a better contract with Navistar, too.

"It's likely we'll never see another Navistar-sourced diesel engine under the hood of a Ford truck after this generation of Power Strokes runs its course. Our sources say Ford is heavily considering Caterpillar for the replacement."

And, of course, I cannot find that article again.

richfaa · 01-01-2008, 07:01 AM

The current contract with Navistar runs through 2012. After that who knows. Navistar makes many fine diesel engines see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_International

Navistar builds the Powerstroke to specs provided by Ford so my thought is how much blame can be placed on Navistar for a motor built by navistar but to Ford specs . Would CAT or Cummins build a better engine IF the specs came from Ford???? Is is like blaming Lippert for frame problems when the spec's are provdded by Keystone??? Just a thought///

dscott · 01-01-2008, 09:14 AM

I just read where Ford is looking at maybe building there diesel's in house by 2010 for there H.D.trucks.

Montana Sky · 01-01-2008, 09:23 AM

Funny how these rumors all run its course. I heard that GM was looking into CAT as well to replace the Isuzu Duramax in 2010 for their new "HD" lineup. Guess time will tell...

Delaine and Lindy · 01-01-2008, 11:16 AM

I think GM will build their on in house Diesel. I'm sure after using the awesome Duramax by Isuzu GM knows how to design and build another awesome Diesel. I believe the new 4.5 Diesel is GM design and build if so thats going to be the test Diesel engine. I don't know any of the above to be true or not just my opinion. But GM has some big shoes to fill to beat the Duramax. GBY....

SlickWillie · 01-01-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Delaine and Lindy

I think GM will build their on in house Diesel. I'm sure after using the awesome Duramax by Isuzu GM knows how to design and build another awesome Diesel. I believe the new 4.5 Diesel is GM design and build if so thats going to be the test Diesel engine. I don't know any of the above to be true or not just my opinion. But GM has some big shoes to fill to beat the Duramax. GBY....

I would tend to agree with you. I believe GM owns a controlling interest in DMAX, LTD. which is a joint venture between GM and Isuzu. Perhaps they will build their own diesel, but I don't see why with the popularity and dependability of the Duramax.

IIRC, when the Navistar-Ford dispute was going on, it was said that Navistar uses identical engines in other applications without any issues. Thus, they blamed Ford add ons for the problems, and refused to share the responsibility of warranty issues.

scductman · 01-01-2008, 02:30 PM

Slickwillie I think you are right. I have a buddy that has been a ford mech for a long time and he said that was the problem with the 6.0. It is the add ons from ford. just another op. bobby

Steve and Brenda · 01-01-2008, 02:52 PM

Both of y'all are correct. Navistar builds for many vehicles, Ford's control system was failing leaving a strong motor useless. It cost Ford so much money in repairs and buybacks they had to switch in order to retain a dwindling market share.

skypilot · 01-02-2008, 04:26 AM

This past summer I was fueling in New Mexico and the next bay was occupied by a Ford F650 with a Cat engine in it. I believe that the heavier trucks have had various engine options available from Ford for some time. May have been an article concerning the continuation of an already existing contract. I just went to their commercial truck web site and they offer both Cummins and Cat engines in their 650 and 750 lines.

Who knows, maybe some of this history will be working back into the F250 thru F450 lines in time.

Bradln · 01-02-2008, 04:18 PM

I was just reading in HD Trucking, where International is working with GM on making their Medium Duty trucks. International is working with everyone. They make a small truck with Ford. It sounds like the trucks will all be one kind except with a different decal on the front. I can hear it now. My decal pulls a lot better then yours.

clutch · 01-02-2008, 05:33 PM

If the problems our school district had with Cat powered busses are any indication of their light duty diesel engines Ford's problems could be multiplying.

BB_TX · 01-03-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Navistar builds the Powerstroke to specs provided by Ford so my thought is how much blame can be placed on Navistar for a motor built by navistar but to Ford specs . Would CAT or Cummins build a better engine IF the specs came from Ford???? Is is like blaming Lippert for frame problems when the spec's are provdded by Keystone??? Just a thought///

Actually specifications are provided to detail required performance, not the design as such. It is the manufacturer's responsibility to come up with a good design to meet the customer's specifications. Our company gets specifications from our customers detailing what they want and how it should perform, but they do not try to design it. Our engineers design the product to meet those performance requirements. That's not to say we haven't blown it a time or two over the years.

skypilot · 01-03-2008, 11:00 AM

Clutch: You might have something there. The guy who was fueling the Ford commented on how he wished he had the 'other truck' because it had a (I think) Detroit in it; the cat pulled well but was a fuel hog!! Guess it is like everything else we have; something is always either faster, sturdier, or whatever. I just hope whatever they pick it doesn't have the problems of the 6.0. I'm still a Ford guy at heart and figure when I trade in a couple of years that I'll look at the other makers as well as Dodge then.

sreigle · 01-03-2008, 01:13 PM

The heavier Fords have the option of Ford, Cat, or Cummins.

Both GM and Ford are looking seriously, acording to industry pundits, to building their smaller diesels inhouse, the ones for the F150/1500 size trucks, but I've not heard about either building their own for the HD trucks. As others said, Duramax is a joint venture with Isuzu for GM. Isn't Navistar a similar joint venture between Ford and International?

MacDR50 · 01-03-2008, 01:24 PM

Here is an article on the new GM 4.5 diesel for the 1500 PU and Hummer2 According to the article the engine is GM designed and built and about the size of the small block V8. Check out the HP and torque. If they want they can make this available for the 2500 also. Also note the forecast fuel economy. All this and less pollution.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06...north-america/

sreigle · 01-04-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MacDR50

Here is an article on the new GM 4.5 diesel for the 1500 PU and Hummer2 According to the article the engine is GM designed and built and about the size of the small block V8. Check out the HP and torque. If they want they can make this available for the 2500 also. Also note the forecast fuel economy. All this and less pollution.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06...north-america/

Let's hope they do a better job than the last time they built a diesel on their own. Remember the converted 350 gasser into a diesel? I tried one of those out and even the salesman was rolling his eyes.

SlickWillie · 01-05-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by sreigle

The heavier Fords have the option of Ford, Cat, or Cummins.

Both GM and Ford are looking seriously, acording to industry pundits, to building their smaller diesels inhouse, the ones for the F150/1500 size trucks, but I've not heard about either building their own for the HD trucks. As others said, Duramax is a joint venture with Isuzu for GM. Isn't Navistar a similar joint venture between Ford and International?

I think Navistar builds the PS engines by contract, being the old International Harvester company. I recall during their dispute, Ford got a court order to compel Navistar to continue production. Also, the new GM small diesel is a Duramax.(IIRC, there has been a V6 Duramax sold in South America for some time.) Hopefully GM learned from the past on designing their own diesels. I had one of their 6.2L diesels. Made me swear off diesels.

Wiarton William · 01-05-2008, 01:47 AM

As someone already mentionned,,, ther is a story, or stories.. some of it is rumour...as I heard it, the Ford bean counters took a look at the Navistar engine and then in order to cut costs changed some of the specs and tolerances of parts to cut costs(against the Mfg wishes) and it has cost Ford millions since.. I sure hope that they do something(Ford that is..) I have the 6.0L and have had a few problems with it..when I first got it, some of the parts on the motor were heavy plastic....after a fourth trip (two towed) to the dealer most of the parts replaced are now metal..when I first compared it to my buddies 7.3L the 6.0 looked puny...now the comparison is similiar in appearance at least.. I have 18 months left in the warranty, I dont want to own this thing when its out of warranty......I may get rid of this thing and get the GM..thats if the price of fuel will allow us to travel in the future....

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