3400 RL weights? - Montana Owners Club

Montana_3920 · 06-08-2005, 04:55 AM

I'd like to know if any Montana 5er owners, particularly the 3400 RL, have actually weighed/verified the dry weights and pin weights advertised in the brochures. I was looking to upgrade from my Mountaineer 298 RLS to a bigger floorplan, but figured my truck (2500HD, CC, Duramax/Allison) would never hack it. However, after looking at the 1770 lb pin weight and dry wt of just over 11k on the 3400, that all falls within the capabilities of my TV (though I realize it'll be close or slightly over the 9300 GVWR). I find the pin weight hard to believe mainly, because my current rig (9300 dry)is more than that and the other Montana 5ers with similar lay outs have pin weights up to 3-400 lbs more. Doesn't make sense since all of the slides/furniture/appliances seem to be in about the same locations.
Just looking for those with actual knowledge; don't really wanna hear the "you need a dually" or "mine tows fine" comments, please.

Thanks,
AKF15E
Goldsboro, NC

mobilrvn · 06-08-2005, 05:59 AM

Beside weighing your rig or the one you want, first look inside the cupboard doors and somewhere you will find the actual weights of the rig post there. These figures will be very different from what you see in any brochure---much lower, of course. By law all mfgrs. must post the actual weight--very informative.

Countryfolks · 06-08-2005, 06:03 AM

afk15e;
I weighed our 3500RL on the way home from the dealers lot. It had a full tank of water, full propane tanks and some of the options and a Trailair pin instead of the standard pin. No high gloss exterior [600 lbs]. The pin weight was 1880, advertised is 1885. The dry weight is 11720 without the water and propane but includes any weight from the options. Advertised dry weight is 11445. Our '03 3280 was very close on pin weight [2160] and dry weight [10420] also.

Skip

sreigle · 06-08-2005, 06:07 AM

I'm sure some 3400 owners will come along shortly but wanted to say, in the meantime, that there are members here towing the 3400 with the same truck you have without problem. Most of the models end up with considerably more pinweight than advertised but a couple of 3400 owners have verified theirs are within a couple of hundred pounds of the 1770 brochure pinweight.

Keep in mind, also, the dry weight is, as I was told by a Keystone exec, the shipping weight from the factory with "standard options", whatever that means. If you have the high gloss, second AC, or other options not on most units then yours will be more. Also, the dry weight does not include propane bottles, battery, nor any fluids or gear. I think most who use their rigs for weekends and vacations find the loaded weight will be 1500 to 2000 pounds above the dry weight, plus those heavy options.

How much freshwater you carry can make a difference on pinweight, too. If your freshwater tank is forward of the axles, then more water will add pinweight. If behind the axles, it will reduce pinweight.

Good luck. The 3400RL is a gorgeous model and is one of the two top sellers (the 3500 being the other), according to what we were recently told during a factory tour.

Montana Sky · 06-08-2005, 10:41 AM

I tow my 3400RL with my 2500HD crew cab short bed Duramax and have never had a bit of trouble. I dont have the sheet with me but I will do my best from memory on weight of coach. Fully loaded for summer since I use my coach mainly as a lake cabin it is packed and I have a kingpin weight of 1,900lbs. The coach weighs in at 13,300lbs and truck in at 7,500lbs. GCVWR is 20,800lbs. I am over the 9300lbs on truck but not on the CGVWR of 22,000lbs so I am not really to worried about that. In my OPINION you do not need a dually for the 3400RL and your truck will do very well with the 3400RL.

sreigle · 06-08-2005, 10:56 AM

Wow, there were two replies posted while I was composing mine! An update to my earlier comment. The way it was explained to me is that the brochure UVW would be without any options. The UVW on the sticker is not necessarily accurate for your individual rig, either. That's the UVW for that model with "standard options", as I explained above when I referred to the UVW. I should have indicated this is for the sticker on the cabinet door, not for the brochure UVW. So, if that is correct, all 2005 3400RL's have the same UVW on that sticker regardless of options. That number then would change only when the definition of "standard options" changes to include or exclude an option or two. I don't know how the law reads but apparently it is ok to use the weight with standard options regardless of the option load.

In a discussion awhile back some of us with the early 2003 3295RK found the sticker has the same UVW in all of ours even though some of us have the high gloss and others do not. Hope that makes sense. So I figure the sticker UVW to be just a rough guideline as far as UVW goes.

rames14 · 06-08-2005, 02:06 PM

We have the 3400RL, towing with same TV as you have. We haven't been in the mountains yet, but it does just fine on the super slab. I have had an issue with the truck recently, but its not related to the weight of the trailer. I have not personally had the time yet to go weigh, but have rather relied on the experiences of other users and a dealer I trust. And yes, the 3400RL is a great unit, if that is the unit that fits you best. It happens to work well with our "extended family" - one weekend we had ten people in the trailer watching a movie. Best of luck. By the way, the Cambridge has a similar floorplan if you have an extra $30k.

Montana_3920 · 06-08-2005, 05:06 PM

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like the advertised weights are close - at least close enough to let me know the truck can handle it.

nkwist · 06-08-2005, 05:15 PM

My pin wieght was 1780 on the way home from the dealer (empty). It's quite a bit more now, though (9 months on the road). We've been up and down some pretty good grades and I'm very happy with the way the D/A combo handles it.

stiles watson · 06-08-2005, 05:32 PM

Most of us 3/4-ton adherents play close to the wire. I can only speak for myself, but I have had excellent service from my F250. You will have to make the decision.

Native Tex · 06-10-2005, 09:09 AM

Hey guys I have no problem pulling our rig with our F250. If you look at the weight balance of the 3400 to some of the other units, it does seem to fair better when pulling. My dealer told me it was due to the center kitchen slide being right over the axels. I haven't a clue, but do know that ours pulls really great in comparison to our older Mountaineer.

rickfox · 06-20-2005, 05:29 PM

I still have the same question that was originally asked by akf15e. Has anyone out there actually weighed their new 3400RL and been able to confirm that the UVW (11380#) and hitch pin (1770#) figures advertised are close to correct?

Recently Cedar Creek had a very similar layout (37CKQS) that was advertised at 11340# in their brochure. I personally looked at the cabinet sticker of a new unit and saw that it read 11340#. However, the "revised brochure" on their web site restated the weight as 12900#. I was later told by a Cedar Creek salesperson, that Forest River had actually been sued because of the confusion/mistake.

nkwist · 06-20-2005, 07:29 PM

rickfox-

I guess I didn't make myself clear. Yes, I did weigh on the way home from the dealer and the weights were very close to published.

Norm

Montana Sky · 06-20-2005, 08:19 PM

The sticker in my 3400RL was more than the 11380 because of extra options I had added to my order. As far as pin weight I am pretty sure (memory) it is weighing in around 1,900lbs loaded for summer. I wont be back to my coach until Saturday but will double check the numbers in the cabinet.

rickfox · 06-21-2005, 02:15 AM

Thanks for the responses.

paulrem · 06-21-2005, 08:23 AM

Just to let you know, I have the same TV and am pulling a 3400. Just finised 1/2 of trip from Idaho to West Virginia and have not had any problems pulling 3400 unit. In fact I got better mpg (12) than I did pulling the 2850 model. I am very happy with the 3400 . We have been "living" in it at the mother-in-laws for about 6 weeks. Have enjoyed every minute of it, living in the trailer part.

rickfox · 06-25-2005, 02:10 PM

Yesterday I checked out the "star rating" awarded to the 3400RL by rv.org - this is the outfit that rates most of the RV's - and is different from rv.net!!

With 5 Stars being the best, the 3400RL was rated as 0 star's - unsafe for use on the highway. What do you all think of that???

According to rv.org, the average UVW is 11,750. With a GVWR of 13,770, this leaves only 2020#'s total carrying capacity. By the time a battery, water, and LP is added - according to rv.org - there is only 11% carrying capacity left. re.org believes a 5th wheel should have at least 15% (of total GVWR) available for NCC, or the unit will most likely be overloaded - thus making it unsafe.

Part of the Montana problem - as I see it - is that the NCC is determined by calculating that the GVWR is equal to the UVW hitch pin weight plus the capacity of the axles - or 13,770 for the 3400RL. However, almost everyone knows that in loading the 5th wheeler to capacity will undoubtedly cause more weight to be added to the hitch pin. For example, if the measured hitch pin on a loaded 3400RL were 2200#, the unit should be able to carry 14,200# total without exceeding the axle capacity. This is considerably more than that assumed by rv.org, or in fact specified by Keystone.

Just take a look at the 3475. It's calculated GVWR is 14,225#, or 455# more, and the construction and the parts are the same as for the 3400RL. What gives?? Are we to assume the 3400RL really is UNSAFE for highway use???

Montana Sky · 06-25-2005, 06:30 PM

Well I guess I will just throw my two cents in. I have towed my 3400RL all over and back and will be heading out again in two weeks to go to Redmond, OR. for the rally. In my OPINION, this coach is 100% safe to be traveling down the road with. I use the coach as a lake cabin 6 months a year and have it pretty loaded to the max. I am not at the GVWR of the coach yet, but getting close. I really cannot think of one more thing I would possibly need to put into this thing. I am pretty sure Keystone or any builder for that matter would not put any coach into service if there was a safety problem. This would make them at fault if something were to happen. Again, just my OPINION.

rickfox · 06-26-2005, 03:08 AM

Thanks for your response Dave,

You say that you are not at the trailer GVWR of 13770#. Apparently, that's the whole issue. According to rv.org, as long as the trailer is not overloaded, and the hitch pin weight stays at 15% or greater of the trailer weight, things are great.

We carry a little over 2000# of "stuff" in our 32' Cardinal. Sometimes we have to fill up with water (400# more) before we arrive at our destination. Since the Cardinal has almost 3600# of carrying capacity, we are well within specs. Unfortunately, this same situation would place us over the GVWR on the 3400. Should we do this, it would be OUR problem, not Keystone's. And I guess that's the point. We would be liable in case of a misfortune, not Keystone!

We were thinking about having higloss gelcoat installed, but have decided not to consider it if we go with the 3400, as the extra 600# would leave less that 2000# carrying capacity - and most RVers can easily find a way to put that much "stuff" in their trailer.

By the way, what is the loaded weight you are currently traveling with?

Montana Sky · 06-26-2005, 03:54 PM

I am just at 13,300lbs on the coach as of last week. The only thing that would really change this number is if I were to add more than 1/2 a tank of water. I usually keep 1/2 a tank while on the road for those just in case moments. Even if I were to fill it full that would only add another 200lbs bringing me to 13,500lbs.

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