No more camping! Up-dated 6/1/09 - Montana Owners Club

Bill-N-Donna · 05-30-2009, 03:03 PM

Well maybe, if things don’t get better or improve a bit. I have spent about 3 grand this past month on things that has went wrong with our new to us truck.

A couple of weeks ago the oil cooler went out. I got that all fixed up and then just last Thursday it wouldn’t start. I called a tow truck and by the time they got to my house it started. Drove it to the dealer and $1200.00 later it is supposed to fixed. Since it wasn’t acting up they ran their computer on it and it was coding low voltage on the fuel injectors which they stated must be a bad control module. Well I picked it up yesterday and drove it to work today. When I got in it to go home it wouldn’t start. Same problem as the other day only thing is it was starting when I took it to the dealer. I’m not going to say that what they did wasn’t necessary but it certainly was expensive and apparently it didn’t fix the problem. Since it acted up and then worked for a while and then started acting up again, could it possibly be in the fuel system somewhere?
Thoughts and comments accepted at this point!

Thanks!

On Edit: I have lights, good strong turn-over it just isn’t firing! What else is left if the electrical system is ok, it almost has to be something to do with the fuel, right?

lwcdg · 05-30-2009, 04:11 PM

I hate, or totally dislike electical problems. That being said I believe many may be the case of a bad ground or a short grounding out in the truck. But again I hate electrical problems.
Chuck

LonnieB · 05-30-2009, 05:20 PM

Bill, sorry to hear about your truck, I know how it feels when the workhorse lays down on the job.

Several years ago I had a '97 Power Stroke that started one morning and ran for about 10 seconds then died. It cranked just fine but wouldn't fire. I towed it to the Ford house and found out I had bent the oil pan into the sump screen the day before. The how, is a long story from my days in feedlot construction. I'm sure you haven't bent your oil pan, but have they checked the high pressure oil pump that operates the injectors? If it isn't producing enough pressure the injectors will not function.

stiles watson · 05-30-2009, 05:34 PM

While at Lake Siskiyou, Gregn's Ford truck would not start. It got towed to the dealer only to find that it was a bad alternator. He has a different engine than you (7.3L PSD), but it might be something to check. The engine would turn over, but would not start.

2 Sinks · 05-30-2009, 08:05 PM

Hello Bill,

What Stiles said about the alternator and... with the truck running the alt should have a minimum power output of 14.2 volts.Another way to test the alt is to see if the engine will keep running with the positive battery cable removed from the battery.If the alt is making enough power the engine will keep running...old school basic troubleshooting method for gas and diesel engines.

I would also check to see if the engine has a low engine oil pressure shut down switch,many industrial/diesel engines have these switches and it's a commom failure/replacement item.The engine will crank over fine but if the switch won't close (make contact internally) the engine won't fire off.

After eliminating these 2 basic electrical troubleshooting procedures I would check the fuel system,when was the fuel filter changed last? Check the fuel filter first,I would replace it...a partially blocked fuel filter will restrict flow volume enough for the engine not to fire off.You may have got some contaiminated fuel/water in the fuel tank.If the fuel system has a water seperator it may need draining,I would drain it to eliminate it.

The next check would be the fuel lift pump/fuel pump to see if fuel is getting to the filter,unfortunately I'm not famaliar with the Ford diesel engines in this area.I know the late model Cummins diesels have extremely high fuel rail pressures and have caution labels not to crack /open any fuel lines or serious inury could result.Only qualified techs should troubleshoot this area on Cummins.

Are the rubber fuel lines/hoses from your fuel tank in good condition and free from cracks...this is a commom place for a diesel to draw air and lose pressure.

I just wonder if the dealer did any other troubleshooting besides plugging the computer to the system and replacing the very expensive module.I hope they returned your old module or at least still have it in there shop...old modules that still function make good test parts.

Any Ford diesel techs out there?

Any Ford diesel techs out there?

2 Sinks · 05-30-2009, 08:15 PM

Bill- As a follow up post I keep a new extra fuel filter in my truck at all times and necessary tools to change it just in case I get some contaminated fuel on the road.I normally look for fuel stations that have the large in line fuel filters on their diesel pumps when buying diesel.

Wayne and Carolyn Mathews · 05-30-2009, 09:10 PM

Put that "no more camping" thought out of your mind! Once you get your truck running correctly, you'll be so glad to hit the road again that the bad experience you're having now will fade from memory quickly. I do understand your frustration, however. My beloved Excursion (diesel) started pulling the same thing 3 years ago, and after having it in and out of the shop, and having to be towed in again after each "repair," I was ready to strangle every person at the Ford dealership and just about ready to strangle my car, too. But, I finally took the car to an independent mechanic, one I've recommended in the past on the forum, and within an hour he'd correctly diagnosed the problem and FIXED my Excursion.

I won't bog you down with details, but I will tell you that I went back to the dealership with receipts for over a thousand dollars worth of work I'd paid for, none of which fixed the car, and managed to get almost all of my money back. The problem was not the battery, the fuel filter, the ignition, etc., but a $35 dollar part that the independent mechanic installed for $15.00 for a total bill of $50. I had no more problems after he fixed my car; I'd still be driving it today if we hadn't decided to downsize a bit to an Explorer.

Hang in there--something like you're experiencing can drive you crazy. The cost of finding an elusive problem is bad enough without having to find yourself stranded repeatedly.

Carolyn

MacDR50 · 05-31-2009, 04:02 AM

I think we have all had a problem with "Replace and Try" mechanics. I am a firm believer that the majority of electrical problems are associated with poor grounding or ground outs caused by chafed wires. There are a number of good Ford diesel forums on line that sometimes can help if someone has had the same problem. I belong to a number and here is sample of the type of information you can find. I believe this applies to your problem. Given the intermittent nature of your situation and that it started after they replaced the oil cooler I would guess they moved or rubbed a wire and created the problem. I once installed new radio in my car and several weeks later my brake signals started giving me intermittent problems but only when I was driving. After some work with a continuity tester and my DW giggling the wires under the dash I discovered that the brake light wire to the pedal switch had been pushed over the shank of an exposed screw and grounding out when I was driving. Sometimes it is the simple solutions that are required.

http://www.thedieselstop.com/faq/949...les/041806.pdf

illapah · 05-31-2009, 05:11 AM

Bill, coupla things. This basically happened to me. Had some engine work done. They replaced a part in the crankcase oil system. I will have to look and see what it was and let you know. Anyway took long cranking and then wouldn't start at times. Called the tow truck. Got pulled out of the parking space. I decided to try and it started. Cost me $60 for that tow.

Take a look at: http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/
I just watched a videw there on Motorcrart filters. Made me a believer in OEM. IF you have aftermarket filter installed, could be part of your problem. Video states and shows how this could happen.

illapah · 05-31-2009, 05:14 AM

New One-Piece High Pressure Oil Connector

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glossary
Since the redesign of the high pressure oil pump for 2005 and newer Power Stroke diesel engines the "snap-to-connect" or STC fitting used to connect the high pressure oil pump to the oil supply branch tube has been problematic. The two piece fittings have a tendency to flex causing wear on the seal and the locking ring resulting in leaks and occasionally the complete separation of the fitting. When a leak occurs at this fitting, the engine may be difficult to start or may not start at all. Depending on the severity of the leak the engine may stall, sometimes abruptly and without warning. See article 6.0L ICP System Leaks which describes high pressure oil system leaks and basic diagnostics.

A repair kit was developed containing a replacement fitting, connector and a bracket that supported the assembly preventing any movement of the branch tube and connector. See article HPOP Connector Bracket describing this kit in detail with photographs. To the best of our knowledge this kit is effective in preventing STC fitting failures and continues to be an approved repair. Some owners are installing this bracket as a preventative measure for piece of mind. We also recommend installing it if the pump is exposed during repairs however it is not covered under warranty unless the fitting fails. A new fitting shown below has been designed is a one piece connector most likely intended to address this issue for production engines. As of the date of this article, the fitting is available to International dealers and service departments but has not been released by Ford Motor Company as a service part however we have heard that this fitting will replace the STC bracket. The new connector is reported to be in production 4.5L and 6.0L Power Strokes for 2008 model year LCF trucks and Econoline along with the International VT-275 and the VT-365. The 6.0L Power Stroke diesel engine remains as an engine option for the 2008 Econoline.

The International Part Number is 1879930c91.

The fitting is installed in production engines starting from:

V8 engines: Engine ser# 431736 on 2/9/07.
V6 engines: Engine ser# 431705 on 2/8/07.

This article is only to provide information. It is hoped that it helps technicians in identifying possible causes and assist in the quick diagnosis of the identified concern. This is not intended to replace any official instructions, authorization or documentation of any Ford Motor Company Engineers, service manual, TSB, Service Message or recall.

FDDTS

Phyllen · 05-31-2009, 07:11 AM

Had same things happen to our 2006 6.0 F250 while on vacation in New Hampshire. It was less than a year old. Could be the fuel sensor, could be the "brain". They did several things before replacing brain - not a problem since. But before that they replaced the crank sensor and high pressure fuel sensor. Tow driver said he had towed many 6.0 diesels, same problem each time.

Phyllis

Frankenstien · 05-31-2009, 11:16 AM

Great Bunch of folks here "http://www.superdutydiesel.com/" query them on the 6.0h no.... If I recall there are a few members in your neck of the woods.

Bill-N-Donna · 05-31-2009, 02:25 PM

Well I had to get the truck towed from my work today. GS only wanted to cover it for about four miles so I had to pay extra to get it towed to my dealer. He had a nice roll back that was a 6500. He said he bought that particular truck just to be able to tow trucks like I have. He told me he towed one like mine just last night. I asked him what was wrong with it and he said it wouldn’t start. I should find out something tomorrow sometime.
Thanks for all of the suggestions and comments!

Bill-N-Donna · 06-01-2009, 07:04 AM

I just got back home after picking up the truck today. It was still not starting when they tried to start it this morning. They discovered that the cam sensor was faulty. My cost today was only $60.17. They only charged me for the part today and they were very apologetic for not finding the problem the other day. In actuality they may have prevented a future breakdown by changing the control module Friday that was reading low. Quite a relief to be back on the road and as Wayne and Carolyn Mathews stated, to put that thought about not camping out of my head, I think it will be fairly easy now to put it behind me. I just hope this gets the bugs out for a while.
Thanks for all of your support and suggestions!

bncinwv · 06-01-2009, 07:35 AM

Good to see that you got it fixed. You cannot get out of the Wytheville rally that easy!!!! No more camping.....Sure....Sure!!!!

Bingo

Bill-N-Donna · 06-01-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by bncinwv

Good to see that you got it fixed. You cannot get out of the Wytheville rally that easy!!!! No more camping.....Sure....Sure!!!!

Bingo

Well it did get your attention didn’t it? The thought did run through our minds somewhat though but as said we will try and put it behind us for now.

Waynem · 06-01-2009, 11:53 AM

Darn! When I had my 6.0 (2005) and it would not start in my brother's driveway in MA, I had it towed to a shop. At that time they stated it was one of two things, fuel injector or cam sensor. It turned out to be the fuel injector MODULE and the net prices was $1800. Wish it had been the cam sensor for $60!

Glad it is fixed. I know you have a partial peace of mind until you run it and it doesn't stop.

Gramps · 06-01-2009, 01:42 PM

Not to stir the pot, but you should go rattle your dealers cage a little. The cam position sensor is under a Ford/NTSB recall and should have been replaced for free. If this wasn't a Ford dealer, there should be information on the Ford recall site about getting reimbursed, if it was a Ford dealer, I'd beat them up, because they are well aware of this recall.

The CPS has been a pain for Power Stroke owners for years, hence the recall.
Good to hear you're mobile again.

EagleRunner · 06-01-2009, 03:18 PM

Bill,
I certainly hope this solves your problem. There has been a rash of problems with chaffed wires between the Injector Control Module and the injectors. Usually it will be isolated to one bank and not both. If it happens the codes registered in the computer will usually show all the injectors on one side and the control module for that side. My 2005 2500HD Silverado was one of them. I found that this is common in Fords and Dodges as well. One thing that aggravates me is the "Shotgun" approach some dealers will take at your expense. So, I hope this is the solution and not another "Shotgun" fix.

**Carl n Susan** · 06-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Gramps

... The cam position sensor is under a Ford/NTSB recall and should have been replaced for free.

The CPS recall applies to the 7.3 motor not the 6.0 that Bill has.

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