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Old 04-29-2007, 02:53 PM   #1
scmdba
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Another Electrical Problem - (Or Maybe Related?)

Our first outing of the new season arrived April 18th when we hitched the Monty to the new truck (I posted my impression under towing) and headed for "Little Farm on the River" in southeastern Indiana. (I recommend the park and its staff.) After testing the 30 amp outlet for proper voltage, I plugged into the 50 amp outlet and walked into the 5er. The voltmeter had "pegged" on the high side of 140 volts! I headed toward the circuit breaker and as I arrived my wife started shouting about smoke in the living room. Smoke was pouring from the TV. I shut everything down and grabbed the fire extinguisher but did not need it. After the smoke cleared, it was pretty obvious we had a serious problem. I went to the office and inquired about service and was given a name. The man at the counter called the service fellow and found out he was coming home from Florida and would arrive Friday. Since we were going to Lexington, KY the next day and not coming back until Friday, I set up an appointment for Saturday morning and we ran on battery power that night.

Saturday's testing showed the park power was normal, the 50 amp power cord was OK, and so was the plug. The 50 amp breaker was replaced but further testing showed the TV was not the only thing affected. The air conditioner, frig, water heater, microwave, and power converter were also toast. The water heater and frig were still working OK on propane but we had no 120 AC. The service guy told me when he left that the outlets were OK to use but when we turned on a 75w light bulb, the voltmeter in the outlet went from 120 to about 95! I gave up on using the AC and went to Wal-mart to get a battery charger. I was ready to call it quits and went to fill the truck on Sunday to come home, cutting our stay by a week when I remembered: I used to camp in a tent! Why was the lack of electricity sending me back to work?? So we had a great week of running extension cords from window to picnic table and enjoyed our time by the Ohio River watching the barges go by. Some friends from Troy came and stayed with us a couple of nights and we laughed a lot about how spoiled we were.

We even were able to use the new washer/dryer we had installed. I owe a big THANK YOU to Patti Emmel for that. My DW had sworn for years she did not want a washer in the trailer but Patti convinced her of the error of her ways at the Great Lakes Rally last August. After the sticker shock wore off and I faced up to the terror of cutting a 4" hole in the side of the Monty, we were both very pleased to be able to do laundry so conveniently (except for having to run a cord through the window - at least the WASHER didn't get fried).

The Monty is now at the dealer in Monroe and they are checking it out. It sure looks to me like the problem is inside the unit but I am not an electrician. I've been shy around electrons since physics lab when a spark generator send several thousand volts running down my left arm into the metal stool I was on! My hair (what's left of it) still stands up when I think about it.

I'll post when I get some answers but this sure sounds a lot like the "Electrical Problems" post by Bill and Lisa. Naturally I bought the unit 26 months ago.
 
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Old 04-29-2007, 05:28 PM   #2
Fire5er
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Sorry to hear about your problem, please keep us all posted on the cause.
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Old 04-29-2007, 05:37 PM   #3
ols1932
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Very possibly a 50-amp Surge Guard would have saved you. It cuts off all power when input goes above 130 volts.

Orv
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Old 04-30-2007, 03:16 PM   #4
scmdba
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Thanks for the suggestion, Orv. When my wife was talking about the problem she asked about some type of protection against this type of event. Looks like I may have the green light to pursue it! What would you recommend?
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Old 05-01-2007, 02:49 AM   #5
5ER
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Will a surge guard protect when the wiring problem is inside your trailer? With all the electrical problems being posted it almost seems like they should supply one when you buy the new rig. My 5er operated off of 220volt for over a week before a problem occurred. I was lucky because only the power converter was smoked twice. Found out that the neutral wire was not terminated at the pole disconnect so I was running off of 220volts. Just guessing but you could have a similar thing going on where maybe the neutral wire came loose somewhere. These trailers are wired similar to house wiring except they get bounced and shaken so a wire could come loose. Sure hope they find your problem.
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Old 05-01-2007, 04:46 AM   #6
Bill and Lisa
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Orv,
just as a reminder I had a 50A Surge Guard in use on my incident and once it fried power stayed applied to my unit! No breakers tripped until after I took the Surge Guard out of the hookup then breakers functioned as they should but not while the fried Surge Guard was still in the equation. Still doesn't make sense to me but those were the symptoms/observed behaviors.

Bill

EDIT - Maybe all 50 Amp Surge Guards are not the Same. The simple black plug into the post, plug your power cable into it was what I was using ($90 Camping world). The same company (TRC) makes more expensive versions which do secure power. My version just "monitors" the power.
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Old 05-01-2007, 10:25 AM   #7
Ozz
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I'm staying out of this one...............
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Old 05-02-2007, 01:46 AM   #8
Bill and Lisa
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Ozz- Why?

I for one am very confused by this subject and I am back to needing to select a replacement for my first failed unit. I think I have figured out that the one I by has to have "automatic protective action" vice monitoring although one post had my original surge guard with the wrong (IMHO) specs listed for it.

I have just about decided to go with the larger TRC unit with the short pig tail on both ends of the casing. I have heard others say you can use it for both 30A and 50A but I am not sure how exactly. Unfortuneately I can not always get 50 Amp service and would rather not buy 2 seperate protectors at ~$400 a pop if one will do the job.

Can anyone help clear up my confusion on this?

Bill
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:02 AM   #9
Ozz
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I get in too much trouble on this subject. Just do your homework, and then do what you feel comfortable with. Protection is good.
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Old 05-02-2007, 05:19 AM   #10
rldriver
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Bill and Lisa

Ozz- Why?

I for one am very confused by this subject and I am back to needing to select a replacement for my first failed unit. I think I have figured out that the one I by has to have "automatic protective action" vice monitoring although one post had my original surge guard with the wrong (IMHO) specs listed for it.

I have just about decided to go with the larger TRC unit with the short pig tail on both ends of the casing. I have heard others say you can use it for both 30A and 50A but I am not sure how exactly. Unfortuneately I can not always get 50 Amp service and would rather not buy 2 seperate protectors at ~$400 a pop if one will do the job.

Can anyone help clear up my confusion on this?

Bill
Bill, After reading about this problems I went to Discount RV parts outlet and purchased the TRC 50 amp surge protector. I also talked to TRC and was informed that it will work the same in a 30 amp system. All you have to do is use a 30 to 50 amp adapter. You can also use it in a 20 amp system. It's on sale for $275 and the shipping was only about $10.00.

You can go to TRC web site at http://www.trci.net for more info.
Good luck.

https://www.rvpartsoutlet.com/newsto...2C2BBB46D73031
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:33 AM   #11
azstar
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Wow,

That's a smokin deal on the 50A SurgeGuard. Have never heard of a better price than that.
Thanks for the post, Dick & Jackie.

Happy camping
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:58 AM   #12
azstar
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If anyone is interested, there's a 30A TRCI up for Auction on ebay right now. 3 days left. Starting Bid is $59. No bids yet. Looks like somebody going to get a good deal.
Happy Camping
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Old 05-02-2007, 09:30 AM   #13
Cat320
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The TRC 50 amp surge guard has been on sale for several months. It has three lights on the front that are on under normal 50 amp operation...one tells you the power is on, the other two are both on if using 50 amp service and only one is on if using 30 amp service.
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Old 06-08-2007, 04:19 PM   #14
scmdba
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Well we finally have a resolution to the problem we experienced in late April. It turns out that the shore power cord was the culprit. The serviceman who worked on the unit said that one of the 110V wires was somehow coming into contact with neutral. So we have a new cord, new converter, new microwave, new TV, and new board in the frig. It turns out the A/C and water heater were OK. Last weekend we took it out and ran everything. Just like brand new. I love this trailer!
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:12 PM   #15
txkrumm
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Glad to hear you are up and running again....Have fun and enjoy!
t
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:39 AM   #16
Emmel
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Great news Steve, glad to hear it was NOT your 5er that was the culprit! Again it was a supplied cord that is used by all the rv manufacturers in their units.
We are just glad everything is ok now!
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Old 06-11-2007, 04:46 AM   #17
1pollyanna
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We have a 2006 model 3295RK montana. It would appear that the converter has failed. This became apparent when our lights dimmed beyond use. The information received with the Coach when we bought it does not include a description, location or any trouble shooting for the converter. I would like to know if there is anything I can do to trouble shoot the unit such as checking fuses before returning the Coach 150 miles to have the dealer trouble shoot it under warranty. We are full-time RVers and it is very inconvenient for us to return to the dealer when such an apparently minor problem arises. I am a retired electrician and have the ability to trouble shoot this minor problem if I could simply get some information on the converter and the connected wiring. Thank you! Morris
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Old 06-11-2007, 05:14 AM   #18
Fire5er
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1pollyanna: On our 2007 3400RL the converter is located under the first step of the stairs going up to the bedroom. Good luck, and we hope you find the problem.

Steve: Was the problem with the 50 amp cable at the plugs or in the middle of the cable?

Karl
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:02 PM   #19
scmdba
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Fire5er: Sorry but I do not know where the problem was located in the cable. I assume at one end or the other. I was not given the bad cable when I picked up the unit. That was a mistake! Perhaps I could have repaired it? Maybe I could have two anacondas instead of one!

1pollyanna: On our 2005 3400RL the converter is located behind the elactric panel over the toilet. There is a cavity over the closet right by the outside door. The converter is in there. Good hunting!


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Old 06-12-2007, 05:41 PM   #20
Bill and Lisa
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1pollyanna

Here is what I learned in my ordeal.....I have the IOTA DS75 Converter in my 2007..I think yours is the same.

IF your converter is working correctly you should be able to take a volt meter reading in at the cables coming our of the unit.I actually poked the leads in the holes above the cables. Correct output from that converter is 13.6V (It is possible to jump it up to 14.2V using the quick charge jumper but that is another story).

If you do not have 13.6 V output you can check the 40A fuses on the converter itself. Note you have to loosen the screw between the two fuses inorder to pull the fuses. They are locked in place by the screw.

If you have 13.6V out put that is good news your converter is working. Your battery is not being charged and based on your symptoms the converter is not powering any DC loads.

Next you go to the DC distribution bus. The battery power input taps into the middle of the bus with a white cable. The input from the converter taps into the bus at the far left hand side and has 2 40A fuses there also (these two fuses are the only ones in the panel without the red indicator lights). If the fuses are good check the tightness of the connection 1) leaving the converter and 2) connecting to the distribution bus.


Hope that helps,

Bill
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