Anyone with a Duramax using Edge Products - Montana Owners Club

RMccord · 10-17-2006, 03:27 PM

I have a stock 05 GMC 2500HD Duramax/Allison long bed truck for my TV. I am considering getting the Edge Juice and A2 which has the digital gauges and GPS navigation.
Is anyone using either of these products and if so how has your experience been with them. Pros and Cons
If you are using them has the tow ranges 1 and 2 been adequate for increased HP, mileage and torque? I at present am not interested in too high a level of preformance increase as i am not going to change exhaust system for a year or two. I do have a Pre EGT gauge and a boost gauge already installed but the A2 will eliminate the need for them and give me allot more information than I am currently seeing now. I believe it takes much of its data from the information the factory black box monitors however I may be wrong here.

Any info helps
Bob

Montana Sky · 10-17-2006, 04:37 PM

Bob,
There is a kid at my rv shop that runs the Edge Juice in his 2002 Duramax. He just replaced the Allison tranny earlier this summer. He has also had a few other problems caused by the modification. I know there are folks out there who will disagree with me, but my suggestion is dont do it.

I am on my 2nd Duramax and could not be happier with how it tows my 3400RL. My trip to Goshen for the fall rally proved to me that there is no need to change anything. I ran into mountain pass' with 8-11% grades, elevation at the 10,000 ft level, 35 mph headwinds, and the flat lands of the midwest. Towing 13,734 lbs + the truck at 7,300 lbs = 21,034 lbs and had an average fuel mileage of 12.5 mpg overall. I cannot justify taking the chance of voiding my 100,000 mile warranty on the truck and the 200,000 mile warranty from Bosch on the fuel injection system. Again, just my opinion....

RMccord · 10-17-2006, 04:53 PM

I have some questions. Do you have an EGT gauge? If so is it pre exhaust or in the exhaust? Also when and how do you use the tow haul mode? What speeds do you tow at. I am especially interested in the mountains and hilly terrain?
I live in So Cal when I go up the grapevine (dont know if you are familiar with that area south of Bakersfield on I-5 I usually climb it at 50-55 in cruise without being in tow haul and EGT temps are just at 1200. My unit is stock all the way other than a boost and EGT gauge.
But I am always looking for better more experienced drivers experiences
Thanks

Montana Sky · 10-17-2006, 08:07 PM

Bob,
I do have an EGT, it is "post turbo". When I am towing the coach I always use tow haul mode, turn it on and I leave it. The tranny will shift into 5th gear between 58-62 mph. Normal tow speed for me is 65-68 mph on the flats (sometimes faster, ask Judy or Helen!) As far as the hills and steep grades go, (6% or greater) the climb up is around 45mph and down the backside between 30 to 35mph. I use 2nd gear for the trip down and that will normally hold at 32mph. Other than the turbo boost gauge my truck is 100% stock. The hottest temp I saw on my Goshen trip was 1150 degrees, that was on the long grade coming out of Salt Lake City up around the 10,000ft level by Park City.

rlwhit · 10-18-2006, 02:36 AM

I had the juice and took it out. When towing all it did was raise the EGT. If you limit that to 1200 why have the juice. More fuel - hotter gas. It was great while empty with kids in their souped up Hondas.

Mudchief · 10-18-2006, 08:38 AM

I have pulled a 9% grade for 2 1/2 miles and held 70 all the way to the top and my unit is stock. I don't know what more you could ask out of a truck. The problem I have is my truck will pull it at 80 just as good as 60 and I find myself going to fast sometimes. We all need to be more concern about stopping rather than pulling. I pull alot of equipment trailers that are heavier than the Montana and I have never felt I needed to chip out my unit. If you want to hot rod then it will make a big difference. My son has the Edge Juice and it will smoke the tires.

ken · 10-18-2006, 12:59 PM

Bob. We also have an 05 GMC with the durmax engine. And yes we have the Edge and Juice chip in it. I have only used it in #1 mode and am well satisified with it. I run the unit with the EGT, Turbo, and Temp gages showing. I have noticed that the egt is a little higher from the #0 setting. The temp can also climb right up there on the engine if I wait too long to get it out of overdrive in hilly country. I have the alarms set at 205 degrees. I am going to run a test this weekend into hilly country and see what it does stock. I know what my egt reading were the last time I went to the same place. As far as mileage, the Edge chip gives me about one mpg more than stock. We had it installed when there was only 3000 miles on the engine so I didn't get to try it without the edge chip. We have 13,000 on the engine now and when traveling on level ground I think it gives me more power. we will see this weekend. I know this only confuses you more. At #1 setting you are susposed to get about 45 more hp. I have never used it in #2-5, nor am i ever. Whats nice is at #0 everything goes back to stock settings and so far GMC has had no problem with it in the truck. I just set it back to #0 when it was in for service.......Ken

2007dura · 10-18-2006, 03:52 PM

If you are going to chip it, I would get a 4" exhaust first to drop the EGT's.

Montana Sky · 10-18-2006, 04:10 PM

Bob,
I am curious as to the reasons why you are thinking of purchasing this product?? Do you feel your Duramax does not do the job you want? Or is having a lower EGT the main reason??

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-19-2006, 02:12 AM

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!!!

I also have an 05 GMC 2500HD with the D/A Combination. This is my second 2500HD D/A and at no time have i felt I needed more power to drag this Monty anywhere. The total pakage does a supurb job and to install "The Chip" in my opinion is jusy that a total waste of money. GM went to great lengths to give us the best possible rig and I see no reason to question the experts. I would also be looking into the possibility of voiding your warranty.

Emmel · 10-19-2006, 06:20 AM

Bob, I have to agree with Glenn on the extras you are asking about, The deisel mechanic at our dealership said that if these things were GOOD for the duramax that GM would already have it installed at the factory. As far as getting to the top of the next mountain, the stock duramax has enough to handle that now. The cost of these extras has to be figured in when you average out your milage too! When you install all these extras and get a whopping .8, that is .8 of an increase in mpg, it takes a lot of traveling to recoup the cost. I still only travel the same amount of miles a day, so I'm not concerned that I might get there 15 minutes earlier than if I didn't spend all that money on the extras!

RMccord · 10-19-2006, 01:48 PM

In reply am I disappointed with my 05 GMC Duramax/Allison no not at all. However GM added 45-60 HP and some additional foot pounds of torque to it and I don't think they modified the engine. I think they chipped it (or changed their settings to produce more HP and torgue. I know the Allison has more gears (1 additional) and ability to modify the tow haul mod I believe by manually shifting it but I am not certain there.
But if I can spend a bit of money on my cheaper 05 GMC and get that additional HP and about 100 FT Lbs of torque, plus digital gauges and GPS nav for one heck of a llot less than buying a 06 or 07 unit then why not. Why did GM feel we needed the extra HP or torque? Must be some reason there? Of course those are just my thoughts. I think because it was an easy way to increase and justify some increases in price. They also have learned that the increase in HP Modest increase not significant is not detremental to the engine. Also if I get an additional 1 MPG that is about 26-27 miles extra per tank or about a gallon + of fuel savings per tank, in about 100 tanks (say a years worth of gas)I will have paid for the extra HP and torque out of the gas I am saving in each tank. At today's cost for deisel ($3) any additional benefit we can get per gallon is making it more cost effective. From that point on if I see 1 MPG per gallon more that is about $300 plus a year in fuel savings. 4 - 5 years later and now $1200-1500 saved. Plus having some additional HP available never hurts. Just my thoughts.
Bob

Montana Sky · 10-19-2006, 01:58 PM

Bob,
This should answer your questions on how GM got more horse power and torque out of the Duramax. It was not "chipped".

Engine output for Chevy Silverado HD and GMC Sierra HD increased to 360 horsepower and a class-leading 650 lb-ft of torque.

Significant updates result in smoother, more refined operation, as well as reduced emissions New glow-plugs reduce start time by as much as 50 percent.

PONTIAC , MICH. - Later this year, GM Powertrain will introduce a new 6.6L Duramax 6600 turbodiesel V-8 (RPO LBZ) for the 2006 model year Chevy Silverado HD and GMC Sierra HD with class-leading horsepower - 360 (268 kw) at 3200 rpm and class-leading torque, at 650 lb.-ft. (881 Nm) at 1600 rpm. In addition to the power increase in the Silverado and Sierra, all 2006 Duramax engines have been significantly revised to deliver lower emissions and significantly improved quietness and smoothness in every application.

The 2006 Silverado HD and Sierra HD with the Allison 6-speed automatic transmission will be equipped with a significantly revised 310 horsepower Duramax 6600 (LLY) through the third quarter of 2005. It will be replaced in these applications in the fourth quarter of 2005, by the higher output, 360-horsepower Duramax (LBZ).

"The introduction of the Duramax diesel in 2001 represented a significant evolution in North American diesel pick-up truck market and propelled GM's heavy duty diesel pick-up truck market share to over 25 percentage points," said Charles Freese, GM Powertrain executive director, diesel engineering. "The introduction of the improved, 2006 Duramax turbo diesel once again sets a new benchmark to which all others will be measured."

The Duramax 6600's horsepower and torque increase and emissions reduction are enabled by a strengthened iron cylinder block and a lower compression ratio. The lower compression reduces stress on the engine by reducing the peak cylinder firing pressure. This, in turn, allows more fuel to be burned - more fuel means more power - while the lower compression helps reduce NOx emissions. Lower compression also helps reduce noise and vibration, making the all variants of the 6600 a quieter and smoother engine.

A revised variable-geometry turbocharger also enhances the driving experience of the Duramax 6600. Aerodynamic changes to the turbo's vanes help tailor controlled application of turbo power for seamless and immediate response at full throttle. The turbo, which spins at up to 120,000 rpm, is high-speed-balanced, reducing vibration and resonance - and contributing to the engine's overall smoothness and refinement. The revised turbo also helps reduce emissions, while maximum boost remains at 20 psi.

Another new feature of the Duramax 6600's turbo system is the capability of the variable-geometry turbocharger to provide exhaust braking. This function is available on some medium-duty truck models and can replace add-on exhaust brake hardware. With the new system, braking is controlled by a signal from the engine controller and can be activated by the driver.

The comprehensive list of changes and upgrades to the 2006 Duramax 6600 includes:

* Cylinder block casting and machining changes strengthen the bottom of the cylinder bores to support increased horsepower and torque.
* Upgraded main bearing material increases durability.
* Revised piston design helps lower compression ratio to 16.8:1 from 17.5:1.
* Piston pin bore diameter increased for increased strength.
* Connecting rod " I " section is thicker for increased strength.
* Cylinder heads revised to accommodate lower compression and reduced cylinder firing pressure.
* Maximum injection pressure increased from 23,000 psi to more than 26,000 psi.
* Fuel delivered via higher-pressure pump, fuel rails, distribution lines and all-new, seven-hole fuel injectors.
* Fuel injectors spray directly onto glow plugs, providing faster, better-quality starts and more complete cold-start combustion for reduced emissions.
* Improved glow plugs heat up faster through an independent controller.
* Revised variable-geometry turbocharger is aerodynamically more efficient to help deliver smooth and immediate response and lower emissions.
* Air induction system re-tuned to enhance quietness.
* EGR has larger cooler to bring more exhaust into the system.
* First application of new, 32-bit E35 controller, which adjusts and compensates for the fuel flow to bolster efficiency and reduce emissions.
* The Duramax 6600 also has a new intake air heater to reduce smoke and emissions during cold or light-load driving. The system features a 1000-watt grid heater located in the air intake duct, which is triggered automatically by the engine controller. It heats up the incoming air to speed warm-up of the engine.

In addition to 50 more horsepower and 45 more lb-ft of torque in the Silverado and Sierra, changes to the 2006 Duramax 6600 build on a host of improvements introduced for '05 - improvements that bolstered an already strong foundation. The Duramax 6600 features a rigid cast iron cylinder block with induction-hardened cylinder bores; four-bolt, cross-drilled main bearing caps; forged steel, nitride-hardened crankshaft; aluminum pistons with jet-spray oil cooling; aluminum cylinder heads with four valves per cylinder; integrated oil cooler and a charge-cooled turbocharging system. Features, such as easy-access fuel filter and timing gears, reduce maintenance time and effort.

A new, 32-bit E35 engine controller monitors and adjusts the engine's operation. Designed exclusively for the Duramax diesel engine, the controller helps the injectors precisely meter fuel to the cylinders and can compensate for the variability of the injectors and fuel flow. This sophisticated, more powerful controller also can support up to five injections per cylinder and eliminates the need for an engine-mounted drive unit to fire the fuel injectors.

The new Duramax 6600 in the Silverado and Sierra heavy-duty pick-ups will be available exclusively with the new Allison 1000 6-speed automatic transmission, featuring class-first features, like tap-shift range selection mode.

In addition to the Chevy Silverado HD and GMC Sierra HD, the Duramax 6600 (LLY) is also available at varying power outputs in the Hummer H1 Alpha, Chevy Kodiak and GMC Topkick. For 2006, the Duramax is available for the first time in GM's full-size vans, Chevy Express and GMC Savana, providing power and capabilities matched with quietness and smoothness not found in competitors' diesel-equipped vans.

The Duramax 6600 was introduced in 2001 and was developed in a partnership with GM Powertrain and Isuzu Motors. Since its introduction, more than 650,000 6.6L Duramax diesels have been built and sold.

The Duramax 6600 is assembled at the DMAX facility in Moraine, Ohio , a joint venture between General Motors and Isuzu created specifically to produce diesel engines.

2006 Duramax 6600 Specifications (LLY, LBZ) Assembly site: Moraine, Ohio.

Applications: Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD, 3500 pickups; Hummer H1, Chevy Express and GMC Savana full-size vans; Chevy and GMC medium-duty trucks.

* Type: 90#65533; V-8 charge-cooled (intercooled) turbodiesel
* Displacement (cu in/ cc): 403 / 6599
* Bore x stroke (in x mm): 4.06 x 3.9 / 103 x 99
* Block material: cast iron with induction-hardened cylinder walls
* Cylinder head material: cast aluminum
* Intake manifold: cast aluminum
* Exhaust manifolds: cast nodular iron with steel pipe extension
* Compression ratio: 16.8:1
* Valve configuration: overhead valve, four valves per cylinder
* Valve lifters: Mechanical roller
* Firing order: 1 - 2 - 7 - 8 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 3
* Fuel system: direct injection diesel with high-pressure common rail
* Horsepower (hp / kw): 360 / 268 @ 3200 rpm (2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra) (LBZ) (Automatic transmission only) (Available beginning 4 th quarter 2005)
* 310 / 231 @ 3000 rpm (2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra) (LLY) (Automatic transmission only) (Available through 3 rd quarter 2005)
* 300 / 224 @ 3000 rpm 2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra (LLY) (manual transmission), Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick (LLY) and Hummer H1 Alpha (LLY)
* 250 / 186 @ 3200 rpm (Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana) (LLY)
* Torque (lb-ft / Nm): 650 / 881 @ 1600 rpm (2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra) (LBZ) (Automatic transmission only) (Available beginning 4 th quarter 2005)
* 605 / 820 @ 1600 rpm 2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra (LLY) (Available through 3 rd quarter 2005), Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick (LLY), (Automatic transmission only)
* 520 / 705 @ 1600 rpm 2500 HD and 3500 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra (LLY) (manual transmission), Chevrolet Kodiak and GMC TopKick (manual transmission) (LLY) and Hummer H1 Alpha (LLY).
* 460 / 624 @ 3200 rpm (Chevrolet Express and GMC Savana) (LLY)
* Governed engine speed: 3250 rpm Silverado and Sierra (Heavy Duty), Kodiak and TopKick (Medium Duty) and Hummer H1 Alpha (LLY). 3450 rpm Express and Savana (LLY), Silverado and Sierra HD and 3500 (LBZ).
* Crankshaft material/construction: forged steel
* Connecting rods: forged steel, stress-fractured big-end caps.
* Additional features: Turbocharger with charge cooling; exhaust braking (medium duty only); heated air intake; GM Oil Life System.

Source: GM Media

RMccord · 10-19-2006, 03:10 PM

Thanks that is good information and good to know. Maybe in a few years. I am retired GM so get at employee cost. That often saves me pretty good. Couple of things in that information I liked. It doesn't mention much about any fuel efficiency gains but perhaps there are some as well.
I know allot of my old dealers and may test drive one sometime. I did talk to a fellow RVer when we were vacationing a couple of weeks ago and he had the same unit I do exactly but the 07. He liked it very much.
Most of us do. Some have had injector problems and that is one thing that still concerns me evn though my LLY is supposed to be past that problem.
I do use Stanadyne Performance Formula in every tank full and have from the start. It is approved by GM. Only additive I think that is.

Bob

Montana Sky · 10-19-2006, 03:26 PM

Bob,
You know what is going to happen once you take that test drive..... You will be coming home with it! I noticed a Chevy dealership down the road from my house just put 2 brand new 07 Classic Duramax Crewcab Dual rear wheel 4x4's on the front of his lot. =) I am trying very hard not to go down there...

RMccord · 10-19-2006, 04:08 PM

I can hold off. As I noted before this pulls nice. I want GPS and felt that I could see a bit of HP, a bit of MPG and the Nav for about what I might have to pay for a Nav unit anyway or not too much more. I could also remove my EGT and Boost Gauges to get back a bit of interior space that the rear cam and nav will suck up.
Now in a couple of years if I get a 5er when we retire that might change. Of course by then they may have added a few more bells and whistles.

RMccord · 10-19-2006, 04:22 PM

Here is information on Stanadyne Performance Formula
http://www.stanadyne.com/new/ppt/showfile.asp?id=1295
Approved by Ford, GM, Catepillar, John Deere and others.

Can be mixed with Lubricity

Montana Sky · 10-19-2006, 05:03 PM

Very interesting link.... Thanks!

Cat320 · 10-21-2006, 04:56 AM

As mentioned earlier, I would never put any adjustment on the truck that would or could affect the warranty. As for more power...IMHO, it's not needed. My D/A shifts to 6th gear around 58...and will stay in 6th without down shifting unless I pull a significant hill.

The owner's manual says to use T/H mode if the GCW is 75% or more than the GCWR. I use it all the time unless pulling a very steep hill. Basically, I put it in T/H and leave it...it's smarter than we are.

The reason the diesels pull so well in the mountains compared to the gassers, is that the diesels are turbos...the engine does not know whether it is at sea level or crossing the continental divide. The gasser looses roughly 3% of its power for every 1000' it climbs, so at 10000', it's lost 1/3 of the available power.

Rocky2 · 10-22-2006, 04:34 PM

Bob - I have a '04 Chevy with the Duramax/Allsion combo and I'm using the Edge attitude. I tow in level 2 at about 60-65 mph. I'm using the edge for the added torque. There's not that much of a horsepower gain in levels 1 thru 3 but you gain about 150+ foot pounds of torque which is very useful. The Edge attitude dose NOT void any warranties on the vehicle, I checked with both Edge and GM. My edge attitude is set to display egt and boost, all egt gauges sensors are installed after turbo (exhaust gas temp), I've noticed lower egts' and better throttle response while using the edge product. The edge attitude and A2 are signal modifiers there is no chip to install. The edge intercepts the signal from the engine sensors, modifys them and sends it on to the trucks black box. I'm happy with it and I'd do it again on another Duramax/Allison. I'm saying that as a retired diesel mechanic (23+ yrs).

You may also like: