Trying to Restart the Economy??

[richfaa]

I do not care what the politicians say or think. I do care about what the CDC and the medical profession say about the virus. I will follow their guidelines not any politician. I am a simple person so two simple things jump out at me. This is a virus that did not exist before a couple of months ago. There is no historical data on the effects it may have. There is as of now no vaccine.


We can not go much longer with a shut down economy. We need to find a way to open the economy and control the spread of the virus. I do not believe we are capable of doing that.

[mlh]

Originally Posted by richfaa

I do not care what the politicians say or think. I do care about what the CDC and the medical profession say about the virus. I will follow their guidelines not any politician. I am a simple person so two simple things jump out at me. This is a virus that did not exist before a couple of months ago. There is no historical on the effects it may have. There is as of now no vaccine.


We can not go much longer with a shut down economy. We need to find a way to open the economy and control the spread of the virus. I do not believe we are capable of doing that.

As usual Rich I think you got it.
Rich is anything but a simple person. Listen to him.
Lynwood

[lightsout]

Originally Posted by richfaa

I do not care what the politicians say or think. I do care about what the CDC and the medical profession say about the virus. I will follow their guidelines not any politician. I am a simple person so two simple things jump out at me. This is a virus that did not exist before a couple of months ago. There is no historical on the effects it may have. There is as of now no vaccine.


We can not go much longer with a shut down economy. We need to find a way to open the economy and control the spread of the virus. I do not believe we are capable of doing that.

Well that settlers it then we need to stay shut down and isolated for the next 12-28 months who cares about the effects of isolation, depression, hunger, extreme poverty, loss of life savings, let them all out of prison, who ever died from that...

You cannot hold the non vulnarable population hostage for very long when those that are vulnerable can continue to voluntarily isolate. Poverty and depression kills more than this virus ever will. There is no reason there cannot be a balanced return geographically (you cannot hold the entire country to the NY standard that was a product of density).

If the cure is more deadly than the disease (which is the current position of the metal health professionals) what is the right path.

[RKassl]

Originally Posted by fatcatzzz

Me think you are making it political just by asking this question. The people that are making these decisions for us are politicos and they are bias even if they will not admit it. I could go on and on about my personal point of view, but won't because it does not matter to most here. But I will tell you one thing, I do not plan to let any politico tell me what is best for me or my family. I have been thinking for myself for almost 69 yrs. and do not plan to change. Rant over.

You are absolutely wrong, just by asking intelligent questions makes something political in your mind. I hope your rant made you feel better.

[Jamesb]

Someone summed the whole problem up; it’s all about “Me”. If a person cannot handle a few weeks of restrictions in there life, Lord help them. What people need is more self discipline. The protesters will become the new problem and will reverse the progress we have made so far. They speak Tyranny, no one is taken anything away from anyone. It’s a small price to pay to save life. The people that thinks it’s wrong, go to a large affected hospital and spend some time with the real workers right now. We just need to slow down a little and educate ourselves more. Heck, then you get into the money issues. My gosh what happened to savings accounts, emergency funds, etc. They just blame the government and ask for money, that’s pathetic. People think it is our Governments job to pay us for all this. Whew, I better quit ranting. But it’s true. Very embarrassing situation we have going on. Be safe out there. Can’t wait to get back on the road!

[uhftx]

Originally Posted by mlh

Some people are saying ‘we have the right to do whatever we wish’ NO you do not have the right to endanger other people’s lives. If they have a death wish go jump off a bridge but don’t take your grandparents or others with you.
Lynwood

I'm sure after listening to the stages of reopening. Some areas of the country will be open ASAP. Not every area has a concentration of people, While other areas more urban with higher density of population will require a prolonged sheltering. This will not sit well within the inner cities where the population is dense. Out on the open plains and rural areas will still have social distancing within establishments for safety of everyone. However, some may reopen restaurants with distance between tables in some areas. Some will throw caution out the window and just reopen and assume business as usual.
This is where the trouble begins all over again and we will come September be in the same situation as the beginning of march. More and More cases being brought to light and we end up on quarantine (shelter and social distancing). Within a few months after the second quarantine a vaccine will be developed. However, how many people will trust the government to get a newly concocted shot. People will have lost a lot of faith by then.

The close proximity of people who may carry the virus, may not have visible symptoms are the problem. It could be me or you. So distancing is the best practice, in any attempt, of exertion control, to prevent a secondary pandemic.

[jimcol]

Originally Posted by Jamesb

Someone summed the whole problem up; it’s all about “Me”. If a person cannot handle a few weeks of restrictions in there life, Lord help them. What people need is more self discipline. The protesters will become the new problem and will reverse the progress we have made so far. They speak Tyranny, no one is taken anything away from anyone. It’s a small price to pay to save life. The people that thinks it’s wrong, go to a large affected hospital and spend some time with the real workers right now. We just need to slow down a little and educate ourselves more. Heck, then you get into the money issues. My gosh what happened to savings accounts, emergency funds, etc. They just blame the government and ask for money, that’s pathetic. People think it is our Governments job to pay us for all this. Whew, I better quit ranting. But it’s true. Very embarrassing situation we have going on. Be safe out there. Can’t wait to get back on the road!

Jamesb, I really enjoyed and agree with most of your post. The only part I take exception to is the part about savings accounts and emergency funds. Hell, until I was in my mid 30's I didn't have enough saved to carry me through a week or two of lost wages. Economic statistic show it has always been that way and probably always will be.

[lightsout]

Originally Posted by Jamesb

Someone summed the whole problem up; it’s all about “Me”. If a person cannot handle a few weeks of restrictions in there life, Lord help them. What people need is more self discipline. The protesters will become the new problem and will reverse the progress we have made so far. They speak Tyranny, no one is taken anything away from anyone. It’s a small price to pay to save life. The people that thinks it’s wrong, go to a large affected hospital and spend some time with the real workers right now. We just need to slow down a little and educate ourselves more. Heck, then you get into the money issues. My gosh what happened to savings accounts, emergency funds, etc. They just blame the government and ask for money, that’s pathetic. People think it is our Governments job to pay us for all this. Whew, I better quit ranting. But it’s true. Very embarrassing situation we have going on. Be safe out there. Can’t wait to get back on the road!

Sorry but this is the most rediculous statement I have read, while most of us here are older and have built our nest-eggs, retirement and have savings. 78% (4 out of 5 workers) of Americans live paycheck to paycheck (that is a fact from the government). For us to critisize those folks in process of establishing their financial security seeing how we have only been out of recession for 4 years many have spent the last 4 -5 years just getting back out of debt. Having kids in their mid 20's trying to make ends meet is near impossible these days, it is not like when we were in our 20'-30's. As a business owner with some employees who live paycheck to paycheck and also those that have some savings which is depleting fast, I have empathy and understand. As a business owner who s' products are 100% American made who then competes directly with China this makes it tough to pay what we would like to even though we do pay average blue collar wages. We are in the commercial electrical trades which is one of the better paid construction trades. My point is it is not as black and white to blame people for not have enough savings.

[Razrbk]

I support what we’re doing in Arkansas. Face masks in public, social distancing, no groups more than five, and social gathering businesses ( bars, restaurants, concerts, theaters, performing arts, etc) are closed.

Guess I better take cover, ��

[mlh]

But then most people don’t try to save anything. They haft to have a big house the latest cell phone cable tv. They don’t drive junker cars like I did so I could save to buy a house I built myself 44 years ago for $20,000 that I still live in. Most people can save if they really want to.
I know a wonderful young single lady who works at the post office. She is 30 and has owned her own home since she was 25. She has saved over $12000 in the last year to buy new flooring for her home.
Lynwood

[DarMar]

As a Canadian from Manitoba, North Dakota's neighbour we have some food for your thoughts.
We Canadians are a less resistive bunch and for the most part go along with directives from government and scientists.
We basically started locking most things down on March 13.
Our neighbours to the south(North Dakota), a state that we frequently visit was one of the last 6 or 7 holdout states to put any restrictions on it's population.
This week Manitoba has flattened the curve with no new cases and a total of 253 cases. This whole last week we have only reported about 9 new cases total.

Today we read that North Dakota with a population 1/2 the size of Manitoba has 57 new cases for a total of 585 AND RISING RAPIDLY. Almost 2.5 times more cases and still rising.

We are not trying to be smart a$$ed about this but don't you think this shows the difference between compliance and not???
We, personally, will give up our individual rights in a heartbeat to save the lives of our family and friends.
Don't shoot the messenger, it is just what the data appears to show.
Stay safe everyone!!!

[Loneoak]

We’re doing all this social distancing and stuff in Canada too. What I don’t understand is why do campgrounds have to close? For some people, it’s their home.

If you go to a campground, do all the transactions over the phone, follow the golf cart to your site, what would be wrong with that? If a person wants to fish, they are not going to be cheek to jowl with another fisher person anyway. Closing a pool hall or bar makes sense. Closing a campground does not.

[mlh]

Originally Posted by DarMar

As a Canadian from Manitoba, North Dakota's neighbour we have some food for your thoughts.
We Canadians are a less resistive bunch and for the most part go along with directives from government and scientists.
We basically started locking most things down on March 13.
Our neighbours to the south(North Dakota), a state that we frequently visit was one of the last 6 or 7 holdout states to put any restrictions on it's population.
This week Manitoba has flattened the curve with no new cases and a total of 253 cases. This whole last week we have only reported about 9 new cases total.

Today we read that North Dakota with a population 1/2 the size of Manitoba has 57 new cases for a total of 585 AND RISING RAPIDLY. Almost 2.5 times more cases and still rising.

We are not trying to be smart a$$ed about this but don't you think this shows the difference between compliance and not???
We, personally, will give up our individual rights in a heartbeat to save the lives of our family and friends.
Don't shoot the messenger, it is just what the data appears to show.
Stay safe everyone!!!

Thanks
Lynwood

[Loneoak]

Originally Posted by mlh

But then most people don’t try to save anything. They haft to have a big house the latest cell phone cable tv. They don’t drive junker cars like I did so I could save to buy a house I built myself 44 years ago for $20,000 that I still live in. Most people can save if they really want to.
I know a wonderful young single lady who works at the post office. She is 30 and has owned her own home since she was 25. She has saved over $12000 in the last year to buy new flooring for her home.
Lynwood

People do not save much any more. Your post office lady is an exception. People would rather spend it than save it. Unfortunately, much of the North American economy is based on people spending money they don't have on things they don't need. It's not sustainable.

For years, financial advisors have suggested that people should have a savings of six months worth of living expenses in case of an emergency. How many actually do that? If they had, they would be able to weather this storm a lot better.

We don't buy anything unless we can pay cash for it. We save up first, and enjoy later.

[TLightning]

Originally Posted by lightsout

.....78% (4 out of 5 workers) of Americans live paycheck to paycheck...

Anybody who lives "pay check to pay check" is not using common sense. Dave Ramsey says we should have at least $1000 saved and better yet would be six months income. The "I have to have it now" society will be sorry.

[mlh]

Here is something to think about. South Korea reported its first case the same day we did. They have over 10,000 cases and we have over 760,000 cases. ???
Lynwood

[lightsout]

Originally Posted by mlh

Here is something to think about. South Korea reported its first case the same day we did. They have over 10,000 cases and we have over 760,000 cases. ???
Lynwood

They (So Korea) also aggressively quarantined you if you tested positive and then fined you $1400 if you left your dwelling, they also put an tracking device on your phone to track all your movement. Take NY out of the US equation and this would be a totally different result. The density in NY was clearly a game changer. The US is the #1 international travel destination on the World, the virus came from many different sources, S Korea did not have the exposure that the US did nor did they have the large landscape. S Korea also has a less vulnerable aging population when compared to the US.

This cannot be compared as relative it is apples and oranges. While they clearly did many things right there are many variables.

[mlh]

Originally Posted by lightsout

They (So Korea) also aggressively quarantined you if you tested positive and then fined you $1400 if you left your dwelling, they also put an tracking device on your phone to track all your movement. Take NY out of the US equation and this would be a totally different result. The density in NY was clearly a game changer. The US is the #1 international travel destination on the World, the virus came from many different sources, S Korea did not have the exposure that the US did nor did they have the large landscape. S Korea also has a less vulnerable aging population when compared to the US.

This cannot be compared as relative it is apples and oranges. While they clearly did many things right there are many variables.

I agree. They have done many things to keep the virus from spreading. NY is the place where many from all over the world go to or stop over. South Korea is densely populated country much of it like NY and still they have 10,000 cases. They have darn sure controlled this virus well.
Lynwood

[DarMar]

Originally Posted by mlh

Here is something to think about. South Korea reported its first case the same day we did. They have over 10,000 cases and we have over 760,000 cases. ???
Lynwood

I love to "try" doing these mathematical comparisons because the mathematics of the situation don't lie, but pose many unanswered questions.

To further your comparison the United States has about 7 times the population of South Korea so by simply math the U.S. by comparison would be 7 x 10,000 or 70,000.

That is a glaring difference which then poses the many questions as to why?

The Canadian to U.S. comparisons by population to cases and populations to deaths are equally glaring, again why???

So my mind says without answers as to why, how do you restart the economy safely?

[Dave W]

Speaking of economy - oil is down to about 10 bucks a barrel today. Sure glad my investment are't dependent on that. This low oil price will not help the economy return. Too many small companys that supply the system can't produce or even explore at these prices. Then, with no production or exploration - more jobs lost and companies going bust. That low oil price is good for the end users, us, but since we really can't go anywhere........