80 amp converter vs the current 50 amp converter??

[dsprik]

OK, why did they do this? Should I consider upgrading to this 80 amp converter? They had to have had a good reason for upgrading this - otherwise they would not have gone to a more expensive converter if it was not necessary.

I would like to know the reasoning for this, as I now have concerns about my current 50 amp setup...

Engineering had to have recommended a boost for some reason.

[Ozz]

I will stay with mine, it does a good job. If you had a large battery bank, maybe.

[snfexpress]

What Ozz said. Also, as companies improve their product so that they are not stagnant in the market place, OEM's wind up getting the improvements that their own marketing departments can tout...

[mail2us]

Not versed in things Electrical, what does an 80 amp converter do that my 50 doesn't? If I had 80 amp in a 50 amp park setup, my first ignorant thought is do I need another plug from 80 to my 50, etc.
Help? I'm sure Dave's question had more thought than mine, but would like to know. Tks

[Ozz]

Just charges a large battery bank better, faster. With 90% of our trailers, you won't need it.

[dsprik]

My concern is that companies don't just arbitrarily upgrade from 50 amp to 80 amp converters for no reason. That's a ton of additional money out of the annual budget for something that has NO aesthetic appeal. If it was functioning correctly at that level it would make good fiscal sense to leave it alone - or at least go to another 50 amp converter that has a comparable cost.

If I was a stockholder, I would want an explanation on this move. As a lowly consumer, I only find out about this stuff after an equipment failure.

I have already burned up one converter under warranty.

I would like to hear Keystone's reasoning, as I could then make an informed decision on whether or not I should consider upgrading my 2007 3400 converter. Maybe after hearing why they did this, I would decide to leave it as is. I just want to know if there is something I should know...

Probably should just call or email them. All we can do is speculate without input from the decision maker(s).

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by Ozz

Just charges a large battery bank better, faster. With 90% of our trailers, you won't need it.

I don't know, Ozz... My thought would be that Keystone would probably not add to their mfring cost to accommodate 10% of their customers just because they want to optionally add some extra electronics/batteries. That would mean that they are putting something in 90% of their finished product that will never be needed.

Wonder what the wholesale cost difference is between the Iota 50 amp converter and their 80 amp converter? Maybe it's not that much on a volume sale? And how many 80 amp converters would Keystone/Montana buy each year?

Lots of questions... Are they putting these bigger converters in Mountaineers? I assume they are now also putting them in the Everest and the Big Sky.

[Jim Dickey]

My Mountianeer came with a 65 Amp converter. My bet is they got a good deal and it does look good on paper for the 10th anniversary edition, but like OZZ said 90% of us will never need that capacity.

[Waynem]

Keystone will not loose money on the change to the 80 amp. It will be passed on to the consumer - us.

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by mail2us

Not versed in things Electrical, what does an 80 amp converter do that my 50 doesn't? If I had 80 amp in a 50 amp park setup, my first ignorant thought is do I need another plug from 80 to my 50, etc.
Help? I'm sure Dave's question had more thought than mine, but would like to know. KS

You question is a good one. The item that is missing is with this converter discussion we are talking about providing 80 amps of current to the battery therefore this is discussion the 12 volt service not the 110 from the park.

Since the converter uses 110 to charge the 12 batteries this is an easy error.
Thanks for asking.

[H. John Kohl]

If this 80 amp (12vDC) upgrade has a better charging regulator then it would be a great improvement.
I cooked a battery because the IOTA 55Amp failed. It is on it's way back under warranty but I did have to buy a replacement and like better it because it has a three stage process and a remote monitor to know what is happening.
Cheers,

[dsprik]

I'm curious, does the converter do anything else except charge the battery(ies)? I'm still thinking that they would not have increased the capacity unless they thought the majority of us needed to have this, or that they were having some sort of trouble with the current 50 amp converters.

Just had a thought... maybe the new electric rear jacks? They, like the front legs, run off the battery - right?

[H. John Kohl]

quote:Originally posted by dsprik

I'm curious, does the converter do anything else except charge the battery(ies)? I'm still thinking that they would not have increased the capacity unless they thought the majority of us needed to have this, or that they were having some sort of trouble with the current 50 amp converters.

Just had a thought... maybe the new electric rear jacks? They, like the front legs, run off the battery - right?

I would say conditionally yes. Since the convert and the battery are wired in parallel to the fuse panel either one can provide 12VDC to the trailer. If either fails then other takes up the full job.
With that said if the battery is disconnected (And terminals are protected - No shorts) then the converter provides 12VDC to all appliances that use 12 volts. If the current draw is high then an 80 amp does not work as hard as a 55 amp.

Also if the battery needs charge at the same time then that just increase the current demand on the converter.

I would rather have an 80 amp than a 55 amp converter.
I almost replied earlier to the "assumption" more 12 volt lights in a trailer and if they all were on the current draw would be higher.

Again wattage usage (volts times current) needs to be measured which will answer the question.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

[SlickWillie]

I would think the added solenoids (independent slide operation) along with electric rear stabilizers, justified the need for the 80 amp converter. Perhaps the new hydraulic pump also has a higher current draw. The 80 amp converter shows to draw 12 amps on the AC side at max DC output, so that is not a drastic increase on the AC side.

[dsprik]

Thanks, John! Good post. And thanks for clarifying - this is a 55 amp Iota, not 50 amp.

You lost your converter, too? I wonder if there is an ongoing problem with these standard Iotas? I had a duplicate put back in. I will look into the newer 80 amp.

[OntMont]

According to the published literature, the new 80 amp converter is: a Xantrex converter not Iota. (The model we saw at the show had an Iota distribution panel, not sure what wtas behind it though). It is a three stage converter, which would make it more like the standard Iota plus the added charge control module.

I also wonder why 80 amp. Our 55 amp Iota has performed flawlessly. Two thoughts, maybe that is all Xantrex offer, or secondly, is it possible that the LCD TV is directly powered from a DC source? Most TVs have some sort of power supply built in to transform the AC to DC, so would it not make sense to reduce weight and cost of the TV by powering it directly from a DC source. Just wondering???

On edit, I got curious and looked it up: Xantrex do make 40 and 60 amp models, but the 80 amp is designated as an OEM model. Here are the specs;
These brand new units are priced at an unbelievably low cost and include a full warranty.
Quick battery charging and safer DC power distribution for RVs The Xantrex AC to DC Converter (XADC) is a complete family of advanced converter/chargers designed for today’s power-hungry RV. With up to 80 amps of output, the XADC features true three-stage battery charging for fast recharge times and longer battery life. The XADC is the first converter on the market with power-factor corrected charging (PFC), significantly reducing AC power draw, while making more power available to receptacle loads and air conditioning. Replaceable fuses, standard footprint sizes, and accessible terminal buses ensure the XADC is easy to install and service. The XADC has been designed and tested to meet the stringent requirements of UL 458 and FCC (Class B) regulations. This ensures it installs safely into any RV and runs quietly, minimizing interference with radios, televisions and wireless devices. The XADC is available with an optional AC/DC electrical panel for a truly integrated power distribution solution. The panel and converter can be mounted together or separately for maximum flexibility when selecting an installation location. Featuring up to 10 single or dual AC breakers and 11 DC circuits, this panel can be configured to safely accommodate any electrical set-up required.

Features:
• Three models with 40, 60 or 80 Adc output
• Microprocessor controlled, multi-stage battery charger
• Power-factor-corrected charging significantly reduces AC draw needed for charging
• Easy, three-lead connection from converter to panel, and converter to battery
• Wide range of input voltages and frequencies (90-140 Vac, 50-70Hz)
• Recharges completely “dead” batteries (0 volts)
• Input and output ventilation located on same side for maximum cooling

[TMerrell]

I asked the same question when we did the PDI on ours...I didn't get a good answer that I could understand. I will say that our 10th anniversary has considerably more DC powered lights (and less AC powered lights) than our '02 Montana did.

[H. John Kohl]

The Xantrex sounds a lot like the INTELI POWER 9260 I purchased as the emergency replacement for my failed IOTA 55. This one is 60 Amp and has the three stages of charging (boost mode 14.4 volts, normal mode 13.6 volts, and storage mode 13.2 volts {storage mode also runs the equalize mode 14.4 volts every 21 hours for 15 minutes to prevent battery stratification}). The remote monitor tells me what mode it is in and I can switch to another mode if needed.

[mail2us]

John, Thanks for you reply to my question and your kindness is noted as well in your response...I did not want to detract from the good discussion that Dave started here on this thread. Dennis

[dsprik]

That was great info. Thanks John and John. Apparently these Montanas are evolving and changing their overall electrical schemes more than I thought, thus the 55 amp Iotas will now not be sufficient for these newer 12v configurations.