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07-10-2005, 11:49 AM
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#1
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New Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: cottonwood
Posts: 7
M.O.C. #4136
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FORE AND AFT SURGING WHEN PULLING MONTE.
Iam pulling a 3255 with a chev. 2500HD crew cab short bed. I have a gooseneck and adapter with a 9 in. offset and a 24 in king pin box. I have been experiencing a fore and aft surging in the pickup often on some minor road bumps. I have strengthened the gooseneck adapter and the trailer frame but this has not solved the problem. Any helpful info. or and advice from simular experiences would be appreciated.
11/20/05 moved to the Towing forum. HOTR
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07-10-2005, 02:24 PM
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#2
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wayland
Posts: 317
M.O.C. #1309
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Hi and Welcome to MOC!
From your description, it sounds like you are talking about the rubberbanding effect (as it is often called). This is a fairly common occurance on rough roads. It's also very noticeable on concrete roads with expansion joints. With a normal 5th wheel hitch in my Dodge 3500, it feels like the trailer alternates between pulling and pushing the truck. The 3575 Montana we have has less of this motion compared to our previous 5er, a 30 foot seabreeze. so, I believe the strength of this motion is based on the distance the trailer wheels are from the back of the truck.
Rubberbanding occurs because the tires of the tow vehicle and the tires of the trailer hit the rough patches, joints, etc at different times. Some of the ways that people report remedying this is by using replacement pinboxes such as trailair or mor/ryde.
That being said, I do not know what effect the gooseneck and adapter would have on the dynamics of trailer motion. It may be amplifing this effect. I would wait and see if anybody else on this forum has used a similar setup. I'm also sure that some of the more mechanically inclined members will jump in with a better explanation of rubberbanding.
Fred
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07-11-2005, 05:46 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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We also get a little of that on concrete interstates (particularly) but ours is not as bad as it was with a prior fifthwheel. As Fred said, some have gone to TrailAir, Isolator, or MorRyde pinboxes or hitches to reduce the problem. Sometimes adjusting speed will help. We have airbags on our truck's rear suspension and sometimes adjusting the air pressure in the bags will help. This is a very common problem, a real nuisance. We most often take US highways and rarely experience this problem on those roads. Fortunately our current Montana doesn't do this very much. You might try adjusting speed a little to see if it helps.
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07-11-2005, 08:38 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marcus
Posts: 1,032
M.O.C. #2819
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Thanks for the replies guys, I am watching this thread as we have a stretch between our favorite campground and home that is like what Fred was talking about. Concrete roads with expansion joints or frost heaves. It is real anoying for a couple of miles the it gets better. No change in speeds or the way we are puling the trailer. Just seems like the highway is smoother after that 5 mile stretch. I have talked to others that say they have the same problems on that stretch of road. I may have to look into the air ride pin box set up and see if that helps.
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07-12-2005, 04:55 AM
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#5
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Destin
Posts: 166
M.O.C. #821
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I replaced the OEM shocks on my truck with the Rancho 9000 adjustables. Much of that "surging" goes away at the stiffer settings.
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07-15-2005, 08:23 PM
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#6
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,740
M.O.C. #1757
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I have added a TrailAir pin box and the ride has improved greatly.
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07-16-2005, 03:21 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
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We have a Trailer Saver hitch and we don't experience any of the "rubber banding" that others say they experience. We did have a lot of it when we had a Drawtite hitch.
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07-16-2005, 07:32 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
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We have the Isolator, and to be frank and honest, on some of the really bad concrete roads, we still get some of the rubber band effect. It is annoying to say the least. We have pulled over to the left lane, and let them pass us on the right, the left sometimes (NOT ALWAYS) has less of the rubber band effect. We have adjusted speed, on I 90 here last week, around Austin Minnesota, we were down to ohhhh, 45 MPH and still banding something awful. We have found some US roads and back roads to do the same, 218 coming out of Austin to Osage Iowa was particularly nasty! But, Steve R. is right, the less I roads you take, the better.
We will never own a 5er without some kind of air pin or hitch. We love the Isolator, as many of you know, the movement of interior items has reduced ohhhh, 90 % or more, and the ride in the truck is so much improved. We also improved ride a LOT when we ditched the OEM shocks and put on the Billsteins. As much as our ride has been improved, a real bad road with real bad rubber banding still causes us some distress.
Carol
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07-16-2005, 04:23 PM
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#9
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Emery
Posts: 93
M.O.C. #150
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i have the morryde pinbox and would not spend the money again on that product,also have air bags and always playing with air pressure to find the magic ride. have traveled highways you describe and just slow down.
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07-16-2005, 04:55 PM
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#10
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Established Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Midland
Posts: 13
M.O.C. #1936
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I had the same jerky ride when I picked up our Montana from the dealer. A friend of mine said to lower the hitch one hole as long as I had room above the box of the TV. Boy did that ever make it ride better. Smooth ride now.Seems the front of camper was set too high and now rides level or just below level.
Len
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07-16-2005, 06:02 PM
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#11
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cooper
Posts: 1,230
M.O.C. #3029
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I-10 in Louisiana had a reputation for being one of the worst roads in the South, but recently they have improved most of it considerably with blacktop over the concrete. However if you really want to test your rig, drive the seven mile south bound section of US-69 between Stringtown and Atoka, Ok. As Carol says, down to 45 MPH and you wonder if you are gonna survive.
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07-17-2005, 03:22 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ore City Texas
Posts: 1,648
M.O.C. #2224
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We just recently had a TrailAir pin box installed at the factory in Goshen, IN. When we got home I ordered a Reese 16K hitch which has the 4 way tilt. I am glad to have both and feel they are worth the money. BUT Carol is exactly right. They can only help, never eliminate the effect of these concrete highways. I think an honest evaluation is that they bring the effect very near what it would be without the RV attached, and that can still be VERY rough in a heavy-duty pickup. The contrast in highway surfaces is almost unbelievable. The first few miles coming out of Raton, NM on I25 force a slowdown or feel like risking tearing the rig apart, then suddenly as you start up the pass, the asphalt surface feels like velvet by comparison, and we find ourselves saying a prayer of thanksgiving. There are many other spots on our travels where we have similar experiences.
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07-17-2005, 03:41 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
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Charlie,
We are discovering, that I 10 (which we have experienced and hated!!!) is NOT the only section of horrid roads here in the good ole USA. WE also nominate, the section of I 90 near and around Austin Minnesota and I 94 near and around Battle Creek! GROANNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
Carol
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07-17-2005, 06:48 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by LEN QEA
I had the same jerky ride when I picked up our Montana from the dealer. A friend of mine said to lower the hitch one hole as long as I had room above the box of the TV. Boy did that ever make it ride better. Smooth ride now.Seems the front of camper was set too high and now rides level or just below level.
Len
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Len made a very good point I'd like to add to so it doesn't get lost in the many posts in this thread. Our first Montana had more propensity to lurch on those concrete interstates than did our current Montana. On advice of the dealer I also adjusted the hitch both up and down trying to find the best balance on the rig. It definitely helped to have the rig as level as possible. I guess too much weight aft or too little weight aft can exacerbate the problem. To say another way, too little or too much pinweight. Raising or lowering the nose changes the pinweight and the weight on the axles and that seems to make a difference. Maybe this is why we hear that pinweight should be 20% to 25% of total weight.
I realize many of our members know everything I said above and probably more than I do. But maybe a few of our members are new enough to fifthwheeling that Len's comment will help them. Didn't want it to get lost in the shuffle. Thanks Len, excellent point.
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11-19-2005, 06:26 PM
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#15
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Happened on this thread... first time I've run across the raising and lowering the nose to get a better ride. Thanks, Len & Steve.
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11-20-2005, 03:00 AM
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#16
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Weaver
Posts: 98
M.O.C. #3007
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I have the trail-aire pin box and it does very well at saving on the front to rear bounce if you make sure you have enouth air in the air bag if not it will shake your teeth lose with the rv that ia have I run the air bag a 100 lbs
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11-20-2005, 03:27 PM
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#17
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Established Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: High River
Posts: 24
M.O.C. #4953
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Often the cause of the "rubber banding" is a pivoting around the axles of the trailer. As the trailer pivots up and down, it also moves slightly forward and back which is detected in the truck as the "rubber banding". This pivoting can be decreased by good shocks on the trailer. Most of the Keystone products do not come with shocks. My previous Laredo did not and now my Mountaineer did not, but I had them installed before delivery. This Mountaineer rides much better than the Laredo with almost no "rubber banding". I attibute it to the shocks. By the way, do Montanas's come standard with shocks?
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11-20-2005, 04:47 PM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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derfr, I don't think they do... but I think you can add them???
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11-20-2005, 07:17 PM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
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We've pulled our 2002 3295RK for about 40K or so.. And we've never had the surging problem indicated. Our rig does sit almost exactly level and the pin weight is relatively heavy.
We did have the broken frame problem but I do not believe the two things are necessarily directly related.
Still I wish I had a heavy duty TrailAire on the rig!
HamRad
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11-21-2005, 11:56 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Caldwell
Posts: 825
M.O.C. #4855
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re:shocks on trailer. My 2004 Monty came with shocks. We haven't really had much of the "rubberbanding" effect. We did notice a little on the stretch of I-5 between Tacoma, Wa and Seattle,Wa in the Federal Way area.
I like the idea of Bilsteing shocks on the TV. Am goingto change over this spring
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