New Montana with solar flex. Need to add panel

[Rexerito]

I have a 30 amp. Jaboni Solar controller that was already installed with a 300w Jaboni solar panel on my new Montana 3231.

I have purchased an additional 300w Jaboni panel to add to the controller. and I have purchased two 100ah Battleborn batteries.

My question is... do I wire the panels in parallel or series? I am concerned that I will burn up the charge controller if I wire them wrong.

Thanks
Rex

Panel-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...t-solar-panel/

Controller-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...ge-controller/

[Daryles]

Good article more so for the math
https://solarpanelsvenue.com/mixing-solar-panels/

[Rexerito]

Thanks, but these are identical panels.

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by Rexerito

Thanks, but these are identical panels.

You need a larger controller. The 30A charger is only good to about 420W of solar input using a 12V battery bank. It doesn't matter if you wire the panels in series or parallel. You will exceed the 30A output of the controller feeding the batteries.

[brooks340]

I agree with other replies, you need a larger controller. Assuming you add the 300w, then 600W at maximum draw of 14v to your batteries is about 43a. Now you panels won't be 100% efficient but you should still have at least a 50a controller. Series config is going to keep you voltage higher but current lower. And each config has it's pros and cons for shading, etc. Do the math and keep the total voltage below the limit on your controller. Most MPPT controllers really don't like being over voltage.

[hemiallen]

I am confused by the numbers.

The Jaboni system on the super solarflex has 4 ea 300w panels, and 2 each -30w jaboni charge controllers ( when-or if they still don't have a single 60w charge controller Mfg to install, Matt was mentioning they will be making a 60w controller soon). Did they design the system improperly? I have notes, nit sure my source, that a 300w plus another 220w panel would max out the Jaboni 30w controller, I did this when I wanted to add another 300w panel to my solarflex. But again, not sure where I got that 520w max for the 30w Jaboni factory supplied charge controller. I need to put footnotes on my notes, lol.

To the OP, I would be talking directly to matt Wolkins
mattw@futuresalesrv.com

He designed both systems and should know what he designed. No offense to folks here replies.

Allen

[carlrx7]

Originally Posted by Rexerito

I have a 30 amp. Jaboni Solar controller that was already installed with a 300w Jaboni solar panel on my new Montana 3231.

I have purchased an additional 300w Jaboni panel to add to the controller. and I have purchased two 100ah Battleborn batteries.

My question is... do I wire the panels in parallel or series? I am concerned that I will burn up the charge controller if I wire them wrong.

Thanks
Rex

Panel-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...t-solar-panel/

Controller-
https://www.jabonipowerproducts.com/...ge-controller/

Originally Posted by jetskier

You need a larger controller. The 30A charger is only good to about 420W of solar input using a 12V battery bank. It doesn't matter if you wire the panels in series or parallel. You will exceed the 30A output of the controller feeding the batteries.

You can generally "over panel" a Solar Controller via wattage but NEVER Voltage.

Note: Jaboni Controller ​Max input voltage 45vDC (CANNOT USE SERIES CONNECTION)


Install the extra panel via parallel connection. Call Joboni if you have concerns.

[MAWilsonPE]

Hello Brad & Chris,

When looking to upgrade the charge controllers, I first considered two Jaboni 50amp units but they will not work with the display panel provided with the 30's, nor do they make a panel for the 50's that I could see, so that was out.

Of course, I talked to Matt about this before I did anything, just to get his take. He happened to have two Victron SmartSolar 100-50's available from some previous testing he did and offered them to me at a really good price. He mounted them on a panel, provided the breakers and lugs, and pre-wired the whole thing! The decision at that point was easy. The mounting plate he provided was bigger than I expected so my only mounting option was on top of the SSF box. You have to be pretty close to the lugs on that box to keep the wires short. See the picture below (it is getting pretty crowded in there!).

Connecting it up was pretty straight forward. I cut the solar panel feed lines going into the SSF box at the splice just outside the box (do this when it is dark, no sun, no power being generated) and was able to reach the new controllers without adding any more wire. There are two positive lugs on the SSF box. The top one is always connected to the batteries (the hydraulic slide/jacks pump and brake pump are on this circuit so they are always powered). The lower positive lug is the one that is switched from control panel inside the unit. The positive feed from the controllers is connected to the top lug. Ground to the ground lug.

I left the Jaboni controllers in place (I do not want to wrench around inside the SSF box!) so I could perhaps add more panels later and reconnect those.

If you decide on Victron, be sure to get the SmartSolar (bluetooth capable) and not the BlueSolar (not bluetooth, despite the name...). I see no reason you could not use one 100amp controller with the panels wired in parallel but I would check with Victron. I do like having a bit of redundancy.

In order to add a display and data logging capability, you have two options, purchase a Victron Cerbo GX box ($300) and a GX Touch Panel ($220)... or you could add a Raspberry Pi with touchscreen (~$150). Unfortunately, the PC version of the Victron Connect app does only what the iPhone app does, no data logging. Victron is great in that their software is open source and they have developed the Venus OS for R-Pi. It is not plug and play, and I am having some difficulty getting it working, but I love a challenge.

Although the controllers and battery monitor are bluetooth capable, I don't think I can get the data feed into the R-Pi via bluetooth (I understand Victron is working on this in a beta version). Currently, you have to use a VE Direct USB cable ($28 each). I will probably have to extend this USB cable with a boosted signal USB extender to get the display where I want it inside.

The controllers and battery monitor will communicate with one another via bluetooth so I think only one cable is needed to the R-Pi, but I haven't got that far yet. Once you have all three on the bluetooth VE network, the controllers operate in a "synchronized charging" mode, which simply means that they will both stay in the same charging mode, bulk, float, etc. You will never have one in float and one in bulk (which would happen occasionally with the Jabonis).

The bluetooth access via iPhone does provides a lot of information from the controllers such as peak daily power and total daily charge, see the second pic below (note the 613 watt peak at the right, this is for two 300 watt panels... WooHoo!!). I want minute to minute data logging so hence the effort to install the R-Pi. I will keep you posted as I work out the R-Pi bugs.

I hope this is clear and helpful, albeit a bit long and wordy....

Best, Mike

[Sharko]

Originally Posted by carlrx7

You can generally "over panel" a Solar Controller via wattage but NEVER Voltage.

Note: Jaboni Controller ​Max input voltage 45vDC (CANNOT USE SERIES CONNECTION)


Install the extra panel via parallel connection. Call Joboni if you have concerns.

Isn't parallel better anyway? Due to less shading concerns and I thought batteries charge faster with more voltage potential?

[jetskier]

If Jaboni is designing their systems to allow 600W panels on a 30A controller, they are doing it wrong.

In my example, when my Solar input is 531W, the output current is 38.70A. That would be way over the 32A over current limit on their controller (according to the data sheet below).


Keep in mind, I ditched my Jaboni 30A controller for a Victron 150/85 for the example above.

[hemiallen]

Well, as of July 2020 it looks like the supersolarflex was 4-265w panels, and the 2-30w Jaboni's. I believe they recently upgraded (2021) to the 300w x 4 panels ( solarflex has just 1) and everything I read says they still used the 2x 60w Jaboni's.

I can't find anything that looks to be current information, but a couple folks just received their supersolarflex Montana's and may know what solar charging system is included with the 1200w of solar panels.

Allen

[ExPatNW]

Very interested to see if someone can provide this information. We are picking up our 2021 Montana with Super Solar Flex at the end of the month and honestly I cannot tell if we are getting 265W panels or 300W panels and same for the solar controllers. 30a (x2) does not seem to be enough. Clearly its unlikely 1,200W will ever be generated, but my rough math suggests the most the 2 30A controllers could manage is 840W - (70%). Happy to be educated!

[hemiallen]

you FOR SURE will get the 300w panels, unless they run out, lol

I had an outstanding email question with Matt and just now asked for an update, and also what W solar charger(s) will come with both solarflex and super solarflex

Allen

[Rexerito]

Originally Posted by hemiallen

you FOR SURE will get the 300w panels, unless they run out, lol

I had an outstanding email question with Matt and just now asked for an update, and also what W solar charger(s) will come with both solarflex and super solarflex

Allen

Thanks Allen- hoping I don't need to upgrade my charge controller. I just got my rig last weekend and they told me that I have the 300w panel. Please let us know what you hear back.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by ExPatNW

Very interested to see if someone can provide this information. We are picking up our 2021 Montana with Super Solar Flex at the end of the month and honestly I cannot tell if we are getting 265W panels or 300W panels and same for the solar controllers. 30a (x2) does not seem to be enough. Clearly its unlikely 1,200W will ever be generated, but my rough math suggests the most the 2 30A controllers could manage is 840W - (70%). Happy to be educated!

In a perfect world, 2x 30a controllers would handle 1800+ watts. (24v system with typical voltages of ~30v). You have enough.

Brad

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by jetskier

If Jaboni is designing their systems to allow 600W panels on a 30A controller, they are doing it wrong.

In my example, when my Solar input is 531W, the output current is 38.70A. That would be way over the 32A over current limit on their controller (according to the data sheet below).


Keep in mind, I ditched my Jaboni 30A controller for a Victron 150/85 for the example above.

Sorry, but you are not looking at the specs of the Jaboni panel. Your panels are not the same voltage. They are not doing it wrong, at all.

According to the Jaboni specs, the 300w panel max voltage is listed as 32.26v and max current as 9.3 amps (300.18 watts). The math is clear that two of those panels would be under 20 amps and the provided 30 amp controller has room to spare.

This is in agreement with prior posts on this forum and information from Matt at Future Sales, all of which have suggested that adding one more panel is easily handled by the 30a controller, but adding a 3rd panel may be pushing it.

Brad

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Sorry, but you are not looking at the specs of the Jaboni panel. Your panels are not the same voltage. They are not doing it wrong, at all.

According to the Jaboni specs, the 300w panel max voltage is listed as 32.26v and max current as 9.3 amps (300.18 watts). The math is clear that two of those panels would be under 20 amps and the provided 30 amp controller has room to spare.

This is in agreement with prior posts on this forum and information from Matt at Future Sales, all of which have suggested that adding one more panel is easily handled by the 30a controller, but adding a 3rd panel may be pushing it.

Brad

You're missing part of the equation....The battery side current. Yes, the PV side is within spec in both voltage and current. When the controller regulates the battery voltage to 13.6 to 14.4 volts, the battery current is increased. P=V*I. P is power in watts. Pin=Pout (with minor losses). Substitute and rearrange equation.... Iout=Pin/Vout=Iin*Vin/Vout. 600W/14.4V = 41.6A > 32A or when floating, 600W/13.6V = 44A. Therefore, the current exceeds the 32A overcurrent on the battery output circuit. It's in their spec page!!!!! Even at 75% efficiency, you're over 31A outputting to the battery. I'm assuming they figure your not in the peak output very long and they're okay with that.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by jetskier

You're missing part of the equation....The battery side current. Yes, the PV side is within spec in both voltage and current. When the controller regulates the battery voltage to 13.6 to 14.4 volts, the battery current is increased. P=V*I. P is power in watts. Pin=Pout (with minor losses). Substitute and rearrange equation.... Iout=Pin/Vout=Iin*Vin/Vout. 600W/14.4V = 41.6A > 32A or when floating, 600W/13.6V = 44A. Therefore, the current exceeds the 32A overcurrent on the battery output circuit. It's in their spec page!!!!! Even at 75% efficiency, you're over 31A outputting to the battery. I'm assuming they figure your not in the peak output very long and they're okay with that.

Perhaps that is true.
But, I'm not sure I understand... why are you rearranging the equation? I didn't quite follow all of that.

Thanks,

Brad

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Perhaps that is true.
But, I'm not sure I understand... why are you rearranging the equation? I didn't quite follow all of that.

Thanks,

Brad

You rearrange to solve for Iout.
Look at my blue Victron image above. If you multiply the PV voltage * the PV Current, it's the 531W. Now multiply the battery voltage * the battery current. It's slightly less ~ 509W. That's the internal losses in the controller. My controller is around 95-97% efficient. Jaboni's spec sheet states a 97% peak efficiency. So we're in the ballpark.


I think there's confusion on 18V or 24V panels. It really doesn't matter if you understand parallel or series configurations. In series configurations with different input voltages, you need the PV panel specs to have the operating current close (like within 2-5%). If you don't, it will operate at the lowest current for the panel in that string and your not getting the full output capabilities of the panels. For example, my 160W panels have an Imp=8.6A and Vmp=18.6V. The 270W panels have an Imp=8.77A and Vmp=30.80V. Voltages are summed and current is the lowest on the string. That's like 2% difference in current. Perfect for a series configuration. The short circuit current and open circuit voltages should be in the same tolerance as well. They matter for the max input voltage when you're well below the lab testing of 25°C. The reason I went this way was the Jaboni panel that came with the trailer was a 265W, the 270W I found nearly matched. I don't have the room on the roof for the wide panels with the two roof vents and 3rd AC I added. The 160W panels are narrow and fit on the sides around those obstacles.

Parallel is similar, but the voltages need to be close. Currents add.

[Rexerito]

Any update from Matt?