Been a staunch supporter of Montana but.... - Montana Owners Club

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-24-2006, 04:19 AM

I feel you folks are about to commit a huge mistake with your new refrigerator door look.
As some of you may already know I was about to order a new 3485 but all of a sudden I am havng some serious second thoughts.
I for one DO NOT like the frig door in anything but a matching wood and I for one WILL NOT settle for anything but a frig door with a matching wood finish PERIOD. If Keystone insists on this change for the WORSE I may have to rethink my options and look at other manufacturers. If they cannot match the NEW wood look than I strongly suggest they go back to the OLD wood look throughout and forget the new look until such time as their vendors can get their "_ _ _ _" together. It seems to me that Keystone's suppliers are dictating to Keystone what they will or will not be getting, case in point the lack of different colors for the carpeting and now "they can't match the finish" of the wood. Give me a break any good stain manufacturer can match any finish, it ain't that big a deal. I would hate to think that something as silly as this could cause me to be looking at some other brand. I plan on my next rig lasting me for many many years and therefore I'll be darned if I'm gonna spend that kind of money for something I will not be satisfied with.

Please Please Please don't allow this to continue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CampingCrazyShirley · 10-24-2006, 04:28 AM

I know I just posted to Keystone about this too. I 200% agree with Glenn. Stop the process NOW!

Mrs. CountryGuy · 10-24-2006, 04:43 AM

THIS POST MAY OFFEND SOME, I AM SORRY, IN ADVANCE, I AM ONLY STATING MY OPINIONS, FEEBLE AS THEY MAY BE.

Well, Glenn, you were at the factory tour at the Rally. When I walked in and saw that black frig and the colors they had used on the new desk and bathroom sink counter tops I turned to the rep and said, in no uncertain terms, THEY SUCK! KILL the counter tops and the frig. He just kinda shrugged me off. No problem, Al and I are not in the market at this time.

I also note they went back to square cut cabinet doors, I have square, I would have LOVED those rounded doors, they were soooooooooo pretty.

The almost black handles and stuff, GOOD change, in my book.

Walls are a bit darker, more of a gold/yellow tone, I am still out on that one.

Carpet colors, MUCH BETTER!!

Flooring not covered by carpet, not bad.

Size of shower/tub enclosure, much smaller than our 2004, does not make it for me either, wayyyyy tooooooo small. Love our larger one. Bath sink counter top is also much smaller, and in my book a BAD thing.

Love our washer/dryer closet too, I don't want any washer/dryer in my front room, I know some of you are ok with that, Carol ain't!

New colors, for furniture, no problem.

but that counter top and those black frig doors, YUCK!

But, like I said, my opinion don't count for much, as we are NOT in the market right now.

That said, I would not purchase one with that counter top, I might even go with the frig door, but that counter top SUCKS! Not talking the kitchen counter top, I rather liked that one! Just the desk and bath room sink.

For all of you who are ordering, and who like the new stuff, I am sorry, this is my opinion, I don't mean to offend, just stating my opinion, like I said, it don't mean squat!

Guess we will keep our 2004 for a VERY long time!

Ok, I have done my wayyyyy toooooooo outspoken post for the month! I'll go duck now.

DHenry · 10-24-2006, 04:58 AM

For thoes of us that have not seen the changes can you explain them or better yet do you have a picture?

txkrumm · 10-24-2006, 05:21 AM

The bathroom and desk countertops (also the little corner shelves next to the bed) are a bit unattractive. They are a darker tan in color then are "splashed" for a lack of a better word with large bits of color. I did not like them either.
What I also noticed was a decline in the quality of the bedspreads as well. They were a bit flimsy, the quilting was poor, and they looked like they were from a motel 6 or something. Also, I felt the color scheme just didn't really match; it wasn't all pulled together and somehow was lacking.
That being said, I like the new floorplan, the rear entertaining. I also like the new darker color of the wood. I too hope they can match the wood for the fridge. I love the black handles. And I feel the new carpet color will actually be a bit more functional and hide dirt a little better.
There will always be changes, some we will like, some we won't....these are just my thoughts.
t

stiles watson · 10-24-2006, 05:40 AM

Every time I hear you folks post about the new units, with very few exceptions, I become more satisfied with my "old" 2003 Big Sky. It is true that I don't have a fire place, but could add one if desired. Don't have Central Vac System, but it takes me approx. 15 minutes to do the whole coach, including taking out and putting up the vac. I don't have Domitec's wireless A/C control (he he he). We like the Queen sized bed and the partition doors between the bed and bath area. We like what we have inside and out. We have learned how to store everything efficiently.

The exception is the connection station on the newer units that I first saw on a Cambrige. I also like the more finished look in the "basement" with the pipes and insulation covered. Everything looked much more efficiently arranged and neat than it is on the older models.

The bottom line is that Keystone is going to have to do a whole lot more to get me interested in newer unit.

richfaa · 10-24-2006, 06:35 AM

The point is this..When we order something a car, truck, new suit, new furniture, new carpeting, etc, ect, ect. We order it for a reason..We like the color, style, fit and so on.When we order the item no matter what it is we expect to get exactly what we ordered , or be advised that the item is no longer available or has changed in some way.What bothers me most is that Keystone feels they can change the customers order without notice. I may be in the minority here but if our 3400 had not come in exactly as we ordered it we would not have wrote the check.The bill of sale, once you sign it is a contract between Keystone and the buyer to change the contract without notification sounds like a breach of contract..Then add insult to injury with the feeble excuse that "we can't match the stain" Are we viewed as being that stupid??

Don't know what is going on Montana but at least be honest with your best customers and supporters.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 10-24-2006, 06:42 AM

Gosh, folks, I hope I heard and/or remember that story bout the stain correctly.

But, I do think I said I heard it as a RUMOR.

RUMOR, backed up however remotely by the fact that the frig doors do NOT have any wood on them, for the time being.

bsmeaton · 10-24-2006, 06:42 AM

Stiles,

I'm staring at my old one thinking - I can add central vac for $350, Mor-Ryde for $1000, and if I really wanted- I could replace the AC with the new wireless (NOT.....)

Thing is - I just saw a whole fleet of 07s on the lot decorated the original way and they are gorgeous! I'd either have to settle NOW for what's there, or wait for Keystone to change thier mind and go back.

Brad

txkrumm · 10-24-2006, 06:49 AM

Brad,
Don't forget...there is always the used Market. I love the BIG SKY paint job; am thinking about holding out and buying one that's just cherry to get exactly what I want! Something to think about...Hey Stiles! Interested in selling? Love your rig!

bsmeaton · 10-24-2006, 07:06 AM

Tara - I already got dibs on Stiles Big Sky!

From the sounds of his comment, it might be awhile!

Brad

jrgwdenner · 10-24-2006, 07:28 AM

My take on these changes is this:

The wood grain 'frig panels are gone because they don't match the new darker stain. The black front is ugly and impractical. Along with the darker stain, they changed the countertops in color and design. The double edge molding pattern may sell more units but they are impractical because you lose about 1 inch of countertop on each edge. Our group expressed this during the factory tour. The color is too light and stands out too much to be in a LR/Kitchen setting.

We are in the market for a new unit but will not buy a unit that has the W/D in the front closet. Will not purchase a unit that has a smaller potty room or smaller shower. Will not buy a unit that has the bathroom sink at the foot of the bed where it interferes in the traffic pattern to the closet.

We like the new central control area and the darker hardware.

Are there any women at Keystone who influence their design choices or is it all done under the control of the almighty dollar?

The worst issue in all of this is that people are ordering units with certain features and when their unit arrives, they haven't gotten what they ordered. What other industry can get away with this?

The new linoleum floors look like something left over from the 50's. Muddy brown beige.

CampingCrazyShirley · 10-24-2006, 08:04 AM

Judy-We are one of the "lucky" ones HA HA...ours is ordered and I got the call from the dealer about the "changes" and it appears as though I have no recourse against them as in the contract it states they have the right to make changes in production and what I order may not be what I get...however, I plan on going by the dealer and looking at the unit they just got in...for someone else...and see what the changes look like. The darker cabinets probably won't bother me as I have dark mahogany cabinets in our Travel Supreme now...the new vinyl I may not like and I know I don't like the black fridge. The countertops I can live with either way as my husband can put in new ones easily...I can even upgrade and put in Corian, so that I'm not worried about at all. My biggest gripe is the fridge.

CampingCrazyShirley · 10-24-2006, 08:18 AM

Well...I just looked at my order sheet very closely...guess what? The order sheet says effective 8/14/2006...under value package, guess what it DOES NOT say? No more does it offer raised oak panel for the refrigerator...it says Designer Refrigerator Front...I see they have themselves covered. No matter what the brochure says.

ols1932 · 10-24-2006, 08:21 AM

As a bit of information, when our original refrigerator which had the wood front went out and had to be replaced, all we could get through a RV Service was one with a black front. I don't believe it's Keystone's fault if it happens that this is all they can presently get from Dometic. Actually, we don't think the black front is too bad. Marge likes it except for having to keep wiping the fingerprints off.

Orv

jrgwdenner · 10-24-2006, 08:43 AM

Shirley, I'm sure Keystone has this issues covered legally as you pointed out. But how many sales are they losing because of these changes?

In defense of the black refrig front, I saw one through the window of an older motorhome and was surprised that it didn't look too bad. It's just so impractical. But all of this is just my opinion.

Cat320 · 10-24-2006, 08:49 AM

Needless to say, with a 2007 model (and wooden refrig door), we are not in the market for a new rig. If I felt as strongly as some previous posters, I'd be looking at other brands in the same price range. As mentioned, I would certainly not buy something (especially what these things cost) and not be completely satisfied. Personally, I like the wooden door, but don't really care, it would not be a deal maker/breaker. Now the DW might have a different opinion! There are lots of good 5th wheels out there other than ours.

Glenn and Lorraine · 10-24-2006, 09:36 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

I don't believe it's Keystone's fault if it happens that this is all they can presently get from Dometic.
Orv

Sorry Orv but that just doesn't wash with me. It is KEYSTONE'S fault 250%. As big as Keystone is they should be dictating to Dometic and not the other way around. If Dometic doesn't want to play the game than maybe it's time for a change of manufacturer.
OR
If Dometic won't come around than why doesn't Keystone get the panels manufactured seperately and offer them as an option. If they are as easy to replace as everyone says than are I don't see a problem.

ols1932 · 10-24-2006, 10:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by ols1932

I don't believe it's Keystone's fault if it happens that this is all they can presently get from Dometic.
Orv

Sorry Orv but that just doesn't wash with me. It is KEYSTONE'S fault 250%. As big as Keystone is they should be dictating to Dometic and not the other way around. If Dometic doesn't want to play the game than maybe it's time for a change of manufacturer.
OR
If Dometic won't come around than why doesn't Keystone get the panels manufactured seperately and offer them as an option. If they are as easy to replace as everyone says than are I don't see a problem.

I certainly didn't mean to stir you up Glenn. I was just stating what was our experience. If it was me and I ordered a rig with a refrigerator with a wood grain front and it came in something other than that, I would not accept it. Probably if you make an issue of that, someone will get off their duff and do something about it. I will not pay for something I didn't order!

Orv

bsmeaton · 10-24-2006, 10:11 AM

Actually I doubt Dometic provides the wood panels at all, (even though they do offer a generic wood door). The panels most likely come from the cabinet manufacturer made to fit the door, unless Keystone is actually building thier own cabinets.

In our stick house the cabinet manufacturer had templates for the refrigerator as well as the dishwasher based on model numbers, with most panels carried in stock.

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