Big Solar Dreams

[Gaetan]

Just go in you tube and look for Prowse. He is a whiz on solar and it will answer all of your questions

[66 Galaxie]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Thank you. Looked at it, but it seems it caters to Coaches and mechanized RVs. They have anything for 5th wheels? Where would I put an alternator?

I'll keep looking through the site tho. Interesting stuff.

We put the 2nd alternator on the tow vehicle. It'll give the capability of charging a 15kw bank in 2hrs. A 5.5k gen is good for 44 amps. So running both Victron inverter chargers and little else, with peak sun you'd be looking at closer to 5hrs. Plus, at 60v you're running much smaller wire. You'd still keep a victron inverter and solar.

It's a deep rabbit hole.

[BeagleMan]

Yes, I knw. But, I've done my research and gotten some great help here so far, do not think I will be going for everything on that list. Just a starting point and going from there. Thanks!

AC

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by 66 Galaxie

We put the 2nd alternator on the tow vehicle. It'll give the capability of charging a 15kw bank in 2hrs. A 5.5k gen is good for 44 amps. So running both Victron inverter chargers and little else, with peak sun you'd be looking at closer to 5hrs. Plus, at 60v you're running much smaller wire. You'd still keep a victron inverter and solar.

It's a deep rabbit hole.

Ah, I see. Ok, thank you. I am seeing what you are saying. Definitely something to consider.

AC

[BiggarView]

To answer one question directly.... all those batteries (350+lbs), solar panels (150+lbs), two inverters (100lbs), solar charge controllers (20lbs) and wires & hardware (100lbs) will CUT you carry capacity by roughly 700 lbs. you will gain some because the OEM lead acid batteries will be gone so figure on about 80lbs weight savings there. Published CCC is 2855lbs so you will have only 2155lbs available for all your stuff and water if and when you carry it. Another consideration is placement of the weight. if you are putting all that gear in the front compartment figure on 400lbs of added pin weight just for the solar upgrade the rest of it will be spread out on your tires and axles.

[BeagleMan]

Well, I have changed up the battery selections and will go for maybe 6 DF GC3s and I am hoping, without knowing how much those actually weigh, that will help alleviate some of the additional weight going in. I may edit my OP to identify the changes in my system going forward. But, thanks for looking out for me in that regard. It is on my mind and I do have a sort of "adviser" on hand helping me out with the actual set up now. Thank you, sir.

AC

[BeagleMan]

Since I have made the thread, I have learned even more off of you guys and many thanks too. Since I cannot figure out how to edit the OP post, I'll post it here. My revisions....

12-15 Battleborn Batteries- 100Ah 12v LiFePO4 DC. Normal or GC2?
Revised: 4-6 Dragonfly GC3 255AH batteries

9Or ever how many my roof can hold safely REC Solar N PEAK Series Solar panels, set in 3 strings of 3. Question: Which to go with? 325 watt or 330 watt at a $2 diff in price? Do I need to go bigger in wattage? I'm looking to create anywhere from 15k to 17K watts.
Revised Creating now between 12-15,000 watts of panels
2 - Victron Charge Controllers 250/100
2 - Victron Multi-Plus Inverters 24/3000/70
1 - Victron Autotransformer 120/240/32 ELIMINATED
1 - Victron Color Control GX monitor
1 - Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor Ordered to do an audit on the power I use daily
1 - Atkinson's Electronics GSCM-Mini
1 - Victron-Orion 24-12 DC - DC Converter
finally, a Cummins Onan 5500W EVAP Gas Gen Set with vent. In case of emergencies and to charge on multiple cloudy days.
And a crap load of wires and connectors and.......

Post has been revised

AC

[djrich]

I have a 2020 3791RD Super Solar Flex. It has 6 Battle Born batteries and I have found that to be plenty of storage. It came with just over a 1000 watts of solar which was not enough as the days got shorter so I added another 1000 watts. Now it seems fine. This summer I hope to be able to run the ac some, we will see. I use about 30 - 40 % of my battery storage each night and, if the day is clear, recover all of that by 2 p.m. In my opinion, 1000 watts is not enough. 600 Ah of batteries is plenty.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by djrich

I have a 2020 3791RD Super Solar Flex. It has 6 Battle Born batteries and I have found that to be plenty of storage. It came with just over a 1000 watts of solar which was not enough as the days got shorter so I added another 1000 watts. Now it seems fine. This summer I hope to be able to run the ac some, we will see. I use about 30 - 40 % of my battery storage each night and, if the day is clear, recover all of that by 2 p.m. In my opinion, 1000 watts is not enough. 600 Ah of batteries is plenty.

Thanks bud!! That tells me a lot of what I am looking for.

[mtlakejim]

Originally Posted by AZ Traveler

No one wants to listen to noisy generators when you are out camping.

Then don't park next to me if I am boondocking LOL. After all isn't the very purpose of boondocking to get away from everyone else?

Besides I spent many a night sleeping soundly to the hum of a generator on an offshore oil platform. If anything they make it easier to sleep (white noise).

[PNW Fireguy]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Since I have made the thread, I have learned even more off of you guys and many thanks too. Since I cannot figure out how to edit the OP post, I'll post it here. My revisions....

12-15 Battleborn Batteries- 100Ah 12v LiFePO4 DC. Normal or GC2?
Revised: 4-6 Dragonfly GC3 255AH batteries

9Or ever how many my roof can hold safely REC Solar N PEAK Series Solar panels, set in 3 strings of 3. Question: Which to go with? 325 watt or 330 watt at a $2 diff in price? Do I need to go bigger in wattage? I'm looking to create anywhere from 15k to 17K watts.
Revised Creating now between 12-15,000 watts of panels
2 - Victron Charge Controllers 250/100
2 - Victron Multi-Plus Inverters 24/3000/70
1 - Victron Autotransformer 120/240/32 ELIMINATED
1 - Victron Color Control GX monitor
1 - Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor Ordered to do an audit on the power I use daily
1 - Atkinson's Electronics GSCM-Mini
1 - Victron-Orion 24-12 DC - DC Converter
finally, a Cummins Onan 5500W EVAP Gas Gen Set with vent. In case of emergencies and to charge on multiple cloudy days.
And a crap load of wires and connectors and.......

Post has been revised

AC

If you are eliminating the autotransformer you will need a two pole output model of the Onan unless you are willing to forego your charging investment associated with your second multiplus. If you Onan is a single phase output and you attempt to feed both I/C's the second multiplus will not allow the input.


Also good choice on the REC panels but curious how you are going to reach 12-15k of input wattage based upon even the largest panels they make. Even if you double the number of panels using a slide over rack mechanism I cannot get to those numbers mathematically.


DF=BB just be sure you know what the differences are beyond distribution models.

[66 Galaxie]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Well, I have changed up the battery selections and will go for maybe 6 DF GC3s and I am hoping, without knowing how much those actually weigh, that will help alleviate some of the additional weight going in. I may edit my OP to identify the changes in my system going forward. But, thanks for looking out for me in that regard. It is on my mind and I do have a sort of "adviser" on hand helping me out with the actual set up now. Thank you, sir.

AC

Gc3 batteries are 70lb each. 4/0 wire is fairly heavy so the GC3s will save weight by having less connections and using busbars instead of cable.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

If you are eliminating the autotransformer you will need a two pole output model of the Onan unless you are willing to forego your charging investment associated with your second multiplus. If you Onan is a single phase output and you attempt to feed both I/C's the second multiplus will not allow the input.


Also good choice on the REC panels but curious how you are going to reach 12-15k of input wattage based upon even the largest panels they make. Even if you double the number of panels using a slide over rack mechanism I cannot get to those numbers mathematically.


DF=BB just be sure you know what the differences are beyond distribution models.

Well, not real sure, to be honest. I was merely trying to copy a friend of mine's unit and he is putting out 17K watts and I guess I was thinking by downsizing mine a bit, thats what would be the case. I know now that I am probably wrong and do not know what I am talking about... But, I am learning more and more every day. As you can see, it has been pared down significantly since the OP. Seriously, thank you though, I am not above constructive criticism or above ignorance to say when I am wrong or know a mistake I made. I welcome any and all assistance from the vets here who know more than me. It helps me, in the long run.

So, I should go back with the Autotransformer?

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by 66 Galaxie

Gc3 batteries are 70lb each. 4/0 wrote is fairly heavy so the GC3s will save wait by having less connections and using busbars instead of cable.

That's very good to know. Thank you. Could those be mounted above a Onan 5500 Onan, as you mentioned before? Or would that be too much weight towards the front/hitch?

[PNW Fireguy]

17k is 17,000 watts of panel configuration. I am starting to think you are referring to 1700 watts. If that is the case you won't have an issue at all. It is not my intention to be critical of you constructive or otherwise. I think you need to ask yourself what is the purpose of the autotransformer in your design in order to determine if you need it still or not. I have one but not because of my generator. It outputs 120/240V and has a leg to feed each of my Quattro inverter/chargers. However if I happen to only have access to a single phase input like a 30A campground feed (or in your case a single phase generator output) your second Victron inverter will not connect to the input because it is smart enough to sense that the input is in phase with the input feeding the 1st inverter. You will either have to change your inverter configuration within the ve.configure software from split phase to parallel (this will present you with additional issues/challenges) or if you are on generator you will loose the ability to maximize your charging amperage because again only one inverter will connect the input if the second is in phase with the first. Tha autotransformer on the output of your single phase generator creates the second out of phase input for your second inverter thereby allowing it to connect it's input. This is covered in the quattro manual as it has two inputs, The Multiplus are a single input and you will need an ATS to switch between shore power and generator inputs.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Well, not real sure, to be honest. I was merely trying to copy a friend of mine's unit and he is putting out 17K watts ...

Just to make sure I understand, is this the system like the one video you shared from Mr Lewis?
If so, I think he was talking about watt hours of battery storage.
For example, 17,000 watt hours of battery would be about 1400 amp hours, or about 14 of the BB batteries you were originally considering. (6 of the GC3's would be about 18,000 watt hours)

I agree with others that this must not be referring to 17,000 watts of panels. That would be over 50 panels of the size you are looking at. I think Mr Lewis has 9 of the REC panels, so I'm guessing he has about 2700-3000 watts of solar.

Maybe that explains it, or is more to the design you are considering?

Brad

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Just to make sure I understand, is this the system like the one video you shared from Mr Lewis?
If so, I think he was talking about watt hours of battery storage.
For example, 17,000 watt hours of battery would be about 1400 amp hours, or about 14 of the BB batteries you were originally considering. (6 of the GC3's would be about 18,000 watt hours)

I agree with others that this must not be referring to 17,000 watts of panels. That would be over 50 panels of the size you are looking at. I think Mr Lewis has 9 of the REC panels, so I'm guessing he has about 2700-3000 watts of solar.

Maybe that explains it, or is more to the design you are considering?

Brad

In a sense, yes, I am. I think you would be correct, sir. I had forgotten about that oversight and you had mentioned it before. My bad.

EEEK!!! I sure as hell do not need that many!

I will have to go by what my rig's roof can handle as far as to how many panels I can do. I am hoping, at the most, to have 8-9 Tec panels. I'll have to come up with my own design I am sure, but I like how Lewis set up and I'd like to replicate it as best as I can. To the degree that he believes...Everything works 100%, at 100% of the time in a RV setting.

I am thinking I need to educate myself more on what each of these components do and how they operate and how the energy and power are disbursed, used, replenished and/or charged. I love his design and love to mimic it but I do not think I have the CC capacity for ALL of what he has. He is helping me though and he is a busy man, but he does answer my questions as I ask them. He's a pretty cool dude.

6 of the GC3s would give me 1530AHs. And he does have 15 BB batteries. 14 handle the battery bank, with one other doing something else, I forget what exactly.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by PNW Fireguy

17k is 17,000 watts of panel configuration. I am starting to think you are referring to 1700 watts. If that is the case you won't have an issue at all. It is not my intention to be critical of you constructive or otherwise. I think you need to ask yourself what is the purpose of the autotransformer in your design in order to determine if you need it still or not. I have one but not because of my generator. It outputs 120/240V and has a leg to feed each of my Quattro inverter/chargers. However if I happen to only have access to a single phase input like a 30A campground feed (or in your case a single phase generator output) your second Victron inverter will not connect to the input because it is smart enough to sense that the input is in phase with the input feeding the 1st inverter. You will either have to change your inverter configuration within the ve.configure software from split phase to parallel (this will present you with additional issues/challenges) or if you are on generator you will loose the ability to maximize your charging amperage because again only one inverter will connect the input if the second is in phase with the first. Tha autotransformer on the output of your single phase generator creates the second out of phase input for your second inverter thereby allowing it to connect it's input. This is covered in the quattro manual as it has two inputs, The Multiplus are a single input and you will need an ATS to switch between shore power and generator inputs.

First 2 times i read this was Mandarin to me, but you know what, I'm going to keep reading it until I understand it.

Oh I know, sir. You are trying to educate me and I am deeply appreciative of that. Was not accusing you or anything. I just mentioned that because I wanted to let all of you, IN THE KNOW, that I would not mind some at all. I want to learn this and want to know my rig inside and out and I am still learning. Respect to you for helping me along in educating me. I'll keep reading your post and use it for research.

AC

[66 Galaxie]

You'll struggle to get more than 3kw of solar panel on your roof. It's difficult to walk around up there when you get that many panels. I like to leave paths for other techs to walk in case an AC or antenna need service. To be honest, 10 lithium batteries is 13kw and that combined with 2.75-3kw of solar and dual inverters keeps most people very happy. This is the rig I posted earlier. It's got 2850w.

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[PNW Fireguy]

Beagleman I dont know if this will help or just be more Manderin but here is a Victron document that describes the different usage scenarios of their autotransformer.


https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...nd-100A-EN.pdf


If you are going with dual Multiplus IC's I am going to assume that you want to power each side of your split bus Progressive Dynamics RV panel. This will essentially put you into what is known as a split phase installation of your Multiplus's. This choice or selection presents the issue of how to get both IC's to connect to an incoming power source when the power source is single phase. This is where the autotransformer comes in. When your rig is being fed with a single phase input like a 30A campgrround pedestal the autotransfomer creates another output let which the Multiplus connected to that output detects as out of phase with the leg feeding Multiplus number 1. Bottom line it allows both Multi's to connect to the incoming 120V supply. The autotransformer can also be used to balance the load between the two multi's. Tthis prevents the scenario where multi number 1 has 40 amps of load while multi number 2 is doing nothing. The autotransformer would balance the 40 amp load over both multi's. You have the option of either load balancing OR step up functionality with a single autotranforrmer. You will need two autotransformers if you want to do both simultaniously. If you purchase an Onan that only outputs a single 120v output or two outputs that have been strapped meaning they are the same phase this also will prevent the second multi from connecting to the AC incoming source in split phase. The autotransformer is needed in this scenario in step up mode like the 30A campground scenario. Both are single phase inputs feeding a split phase configuration.