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Old 12-24-2019, 06:50 AM   #1
GHallof
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Critters Critters Critters - Wires Chewed

Hello All,

I was wondering if someone might be able to give me an idea of what I am in for. I have a 2017 3661 RL. Bought used a couple of years ago. We love it. Parked for the winter about a month or so ago. Yesterday I went out to prep for use over the holidays. Its nice to have a couple of spare bedrooms around when you need them.

When I went to use the LEVEL UP system I immediately received an error. "External Sensor". Researched and found that this is either due to a bad rear leveling sensor or a short in the wiring to it. Thought this a bit odd, as all was working fine just a short while ago.

Opened the basement, and what do ya know...BLACK WALNUT shells galore.
Damn tree rats. UGH

So no doubt its more than likely a chewed wire. Looks like the harness runs bettween the basement floor and the coroplast then along the frame between the floor and coroplast thru the main section i would imagine while it heads to the rear.

So I know Im going to have to drop the coroplast under the basement, and then under the main section until I find the break. I also plan to check all wiring and plumbing behind the basement wall just for good measure.

I would like to hear from others that have done something similar. What is the smart way to go about this. No matter how you slice it. It looks to be a bit of a job and would appreciate the advice of others. Trying to work smarter not harder.

Oh...to anyone that does respond. THANK YOU!! Much appreciated.

Merry Christmas...Happy New Year...Safe Travels
 
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:00 AM   #2
Slow Hand
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Well when you do find the spot that is chewed up then all you can do is solder the wires back together and use shrink wrap to protect the wires. Hopefully they used color coded wires and not all the same color. That would be a problem. As for the rodents, I find a 4/10 works. 12 gauge is a bit to much. LOL
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Old 12-24-2019, 07:29 AM   #3
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Not the trailer, but my truck. When I had my 2007 F350 I had wires and vacuum hoses chewed along with sticks, grass, shells, etc under the hood. Not just chewed, but completely eaten in some cases. Repaired for about $400. A month or so later, chewed again for another $400. Tried hunter's fox urine cover scent. Tried moth balls. Both occurrences were in the winter. Then nothing until the next winter and chewed again, and another $400. Bought some Critter Ridder spray from Home Depot and sprayed all wiring I could see and no more problems, that winter or any after that.
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Old 12-24-2019, 10:11 AM   #4
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Dropping the coroplast is a piece of cake and gives you a nice surface to lay on. I had two mice habitation then I sealed all the level up leg entry points with heavy wire screening for the front two and sheet aluminum for the middle two. Rears were okay. I used traps and sticky pads. Tree rats once out and openings closed shouldn't return, hopefully.
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:10 AM   #5
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Started the clean up

Hi All...I started the clean up and wanted to provide some pics. First what a mess. Second...Kinda surprised (not really) at the shoddy craftsmanship of things. The first pic shows a bit of the mess. The basement was trashed. Behind the basement wall was even worse. The second picture shows the point of ingress. To put that pic into a bit of context. 2017 3661RL drivers side, basement wall removed camera phone positioned right at rear base of conv center pointing to the rear. At the tip of the arrow is day light. It is an opening in the aluminum skirting. On the outside its located just below hot water heater grate. So the little suckers hop into that 5 X 8 hole and have full access to the entire basement, behind the basement wall, and the entire run of the full length of the frame area on top of the coroplast...not just the front portion...all the way to the rear. That also includes all area underneath the basement floor and into the front storage compartments. So if I seal off, (why keystone didnt do it $$$$...could of used a piece of scrap luan even) the area between the black steel frame piece and the outside wall it will keep the vermin out. Again...why Keystone??? WHY!! We all take a lot of pride in the ownership of our Monte's and to find CRAP like this really makes ya wonder. See next thread for more pics...
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Old 12-27-2019, 07:33 AM   #6
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More pics - 2017 3661RL Behind the basement wall

Here are some additional pics and comments. At this point I hope this helps in some way going forward for others. So the first pic is related to what started this entire mess. LEVEL UP "external sensor" error indicating a bad rear leveling sensor or a short in the wiring to it. Since the discovery of the tree rat invasion I figured they may have chewed the wires. So now the entire length of harness needs inspected. My first option is to drop the coroplast and inspect the harness all the way to rear. HOLD THE PHONE...The arrow in the pic is pointing to a hole in a frame crossmember that they just happen to loosely run the harness all the way to the rear. My hope is I can expose the sensor through the precut access panel in the coroplast. Disconnect the harness, attach a piece of pull string to harness, and then pull back through to the basement, inspecting as i go. When done, just use the pull string to pull it back through. Wish me luck.

MORE IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!! Take another look at the pic...The hole in the crossmember and the hydraulic lines that pass through. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...NOTHING...NOTHING protecting these lines from wearing on the edge of the hole. Amateur!!!
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Old 12-27-2019, 09:50 AM   #7
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Great job on the pics and I think your idea of using a string is way to go. That is the way we used to make pulls when I worked in industrial electronics. When we made conduit runs we would pull a light ball with thread with a vacuum then pull heavier string as needed. if we suspected we would ever have to pull another wire we would leave string in the conduit.


Yep it is a real mess of wires under there on all the Indiana built models. This kind of shoddy workmanship is just an indicator to me of how they throw these things together. You can find similar indicators in every part of the units. All the major builders are guilty of it to some degree or another. Could they do a better job? Yes. Would the average consumer pay for it? To be honest I don't think so. Folks on this forum probably would but not a lot of the weekenders.


That is why Spacecraft and New Horizons impressed me so much. Their wiring is not only very organized and tied off professionally but also LABELED!! Of course you pay a premium for that higher level of quality. The more I look at how these units are built the more impressed I am with the NH semi custom and the Spacecraft full customs. But not everyone can justify the cost of one of those units.


I have even thought about building my own camper from scratch. I have expertise across several crafts (welding and electronics via trade school, Plumbing via Oilfield and self taught carpentry). Even at that I would have a professional welding shop do my frame (maybe out of Aluminum?). I am fairly sure I could build my own for about half what a Spacecraft would cost me. I was even thinking skin it in welded stiff panel Aluminum rather than Fiberglass panels. That truly would last forever (just look at those Airstreams).
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Old 12-27-2019, 10:14 AM   #8
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Hi Jim,

I agree. Most would not pay the premium. Thanks for the reply. Safe Travels
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Old 12-27-2019, 02:50 PM   #9
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LEVEL UP Rear sensor

Went back out and pulled the LU rear sensor harness through. Pull back string and harness came thru without issue. Checked harness for continuity on all three wires. All good no breaks. Sealed up the ingress where the critters are coming in and set a trap in the basement just in case. Seems the LU sensor is bad. Ordered a new one off of amazon. 150.00 It will be here Sunday. Fingers crossed.
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Old 12-27-2019, 04:19 PM   #10
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I guess it depends on what your's was doing. We had a bad Rear Sensor on our unit, it would try to Auto Level but wouldn't be level, but we could manual level without an issue. So we continued manual leveling until we went to our SOB Rally and had Lippert check it out.
They started at the front replacing the Auto Reset Breaker with a Manual 80 Amp Breaker, then replaced the next sensor inline, turned out to be the Rear Sensor.
That was several years ago and haven't had an issue since.
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Old 12-27-2019, 08:24 PM   #11
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You have to have mad skills to be a RVer LOL
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:19 PM   #12
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WOW, look at that rat's nest! My bad..... its just keystone's wiring mess. Mine looks just as much a tangled mess as yours when the the cover panels are removed. Glad you got things figured out!
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Old 01-01-2020, 02:22 PM   #13
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Would the customer pay for the higher level of wiring organization.... absolutely. If one mfr did it, their competitors would follow suit quickly... such is the nature of the business. The price could easily be rolled into the overall cost without much fuss from the consumer. They used the same argument about seat belts decades ago. "too expensive" they said. "Nobody will pay extra for it" they said. Just do it. the consumer may balk at first but then the public will accept it, and be glad of it without really knowing why... until they need to run down a short or loose wire....story over. JMHO
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Old 01-01-2020, 05:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggarView View Post
Would the customer pay for the higher level of wiring organization.... absolutely. If one mfr did it, their competitors would follow suit quickly... such is the nature of the business. The price could easily be rolled into the overall cost without much fuss from the consumer. They used the same argument about seat belts decades ago. "too expensive" they said. "Nobody will pay extra for it" they said. Just do it. the consumer may balk at first but then the public will accept it, and be glad of it without really knowing why... until they need to run down a short or loose wire....story over. JMHO
What you don't see you won't pay for.
How many folks have been asking for Disk brakes standard?
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:35 PM   #15
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I have an older Montana & had a rat infestation problem. I found a 2" gap between the coroplast & the bottom of the rear end cap of the 5th wheel.
I cut 1/2" hardware cloth strip to fit over the entire gap & screwed it on.
That stopped the rats.
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Old 01-01-2020, 10:17 PM   #16
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Our truck 2015 GMC Denali truck wiring harness has been chewed through multiple times. Apparently the new ecofriendly wire coatings are made from soy based material...aka FOOD for the critters!
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:57 PM   #17
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Squirrels, wiring etc

Sorry you are having this problem, quality control is lost in the RV industry. Now that you see the mess with wiring it will give you the chance to tie some of it back where improvement can be. When I was under mine I also took this opportunity to cover all water lines with the foam insulation.
Good luck.
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:29 AM   #18
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I'd be "happy" just to have a good wiring diagram!!!
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:16 AM   #19
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Thumbs up Following Up

I appreciate all of the feedback I received along the way. Very helpful and Interesting conversation.

In the end it was two probems. What started out to be what was thought to be an issue caused by TREE RATS...turned out to be something entirely different.

1. TREE RATS - Yep they are/were an issue and Im getting that situated. Using two seperate methods. The first - Sealing off all of the possible openings. The second. I work from home and I find myself gleaning out across our back forty where the 5er is parked. A hasty sniper purch out the kitchen window and some .17HMR really works wonders on my mental health and TREE RAT populaton.

2. Lippert Level Up - No issues with wires chewed at all as first was suspected. Rear sensor and harness turned out to be completely functional. Main Control board was on the fritz. Took her up to a local RV shop (ALL PRO RV in Alliance OH) - Top notch folks that go out of thier way to assist and dont rob you. They processed the work through my service contract company PRESERVE, FIXED. AllPro said PRESERVE was great to work with.

Wanted to follow up and close this out just in case anyone finds any of it helpful.

Semper GUMBY! Gordo
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:13 PM   #20
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Thanks for the update

Does ALL PRO RV patch the bullet holes?
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