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Old 07-25-2016, 11:24 AM   #21
Golfmedik
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Went to the dealer this morning and my luck, the service manager was not there. He will be tomorrow and the general manager stated to bring it then. He also stated that it appears to be a broken weld where the drop frame cage is welded to the Lippert frame. States that at one time was pretty common with drop frame campers. He went to say that, if you'll notice, that all drop frame campers have a "relief cut" under the bedroom slide(front left) that is covered by a piece of trim. When that area moves, it is indicative of a weld failure in cage/frame joint. I've never heard this, but he stated that all drop frame manufacturers do not buy a fully built frame from Lippert. Most buy the frame and then weld in the "drop frame cage" to the Lippert for their product.
A good friend of mine has a buddy that works in the XLR plant. He was sent the video and he eluded to the fact that one of you touched on earlier, about the wall joint was not properly attached at the factory. He believes that either way, this should be a rather easy repair.
I was told by the dealer to go ahead and bring the camper in as I only live about 20 miles. I am confident that the incident occurred on the way home from the lake yesterday as I have pics of the camper, both loaded and unloaded, at the lake with no visible issue.
I am not solely taking this guy at his word. I was NOT going to tow it anywhere until told to by either the dealer or Keystone. I have begun documenting this very heavily and will throughout the process. Our next trip in scheduled for 2.5 weeks and I do not anticipate having it back, but who knows. I will let you guys know what the problem is and the planned remedy. Thank you all for being a sounding board and a great source of information.
This is that piece of trim I was told about covering the "relief cut" in the side of the camper. All on the lot have this. I'd never noticed it.
http://s1209.photobucket.com/user/go...g0kt.jpg.html]

http://i1209.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0xs7g0kt.jpg
 
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:05 PM   #22
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Good luck and please keep us informed on what transpires.

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Old 07-26-2016, 05:35 AM   #23
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The entire frame comes into the first station fully assembled Montana welds nothing.
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Old 07-26-2016, 09:07 AM   #24
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Just left the dealer this morning, with the camper! The service manager and I have a great relationship and he said that he had not seen a newer one do anything of the sort and that type of repair would have to be done by Montana/Keystone, most likely back in Indiana. They took videos and multiple pics of the area and will contact Montana to see what I should do, or they should do next. I brought the camper back home at the dealer's recommendation as the service area has about 3 weeks of work and they are very crowded. I didn't mind that at all as I am only 30 minutes away.
I have emailed Montana's customer service with a description of what is wrong and the video. So, I'm just in a holding pattern as of now until I hear something else. One thing I've thought of is emailing the rep that I dealt with while the camper was being built and seeing if that gets me anywhere.
Also, while I was checking the unit this morning before heading to the dealer, I noticed that on both sides of the camper, the rear skirting is sliding down and has broken the silicon all the way from the rear panel to the rear wheels! Under each of the rear baggage doors. I had exposed wood on the right rear side, so I put some silicon over it to keep it from getting wet. When I showed it to the dealer, they all said this was nothing new for the new Montanas as they have to repair some of them before they even get on the lot. Stating that Montana uses a staple in only a fraction of a millimeter ot metal skirting to hold that area on. He then took me into the bay and showed me one they were repairing with the same problem that they found upon their delivery inspection.
I have always wanted a Montana, but this is making me second guess myself. I love the floor plan and the reputation of them, but so far, I've not been overly impressed with the quality.
Here is the skirting.



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Old 07-27-2016, 03:18 PM   #25
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I've actually talked to the factory rep which sent all of my other info to the owner relations department. I then got a call from them asking a thousand questions from how many miles I had on it, to what kind of truck and hitch I pulled it with to many more weird questions. I know they were just doing their job. I re-sent them a video as they can't see anything that is YouTube related. THey told me I would hear from them again possibly tomorrow after their frame specialist takes a look at it. Many questions about anything I could have done to it that damaged it. But some progress is being made I think. At least they are talking to me. That is MUCH better than the response I got from FR for months.
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Old 07-27-2016, 05:13 PM   #26
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I am going to following this thread closely to see how responsive KS is to your issue. Please continue to update sorry for your troubles
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:16 PM   #27
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Sorry for your troubles, but I am impressed by how observant you are. I think a lot of people wouldn't notice these things easily. I will be watching for updated posts to see how things are being resolved. Best of luck!
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Old 08-02-2016, 12:23 PM   #28
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Finding more areas where the side skirts are sliding or moving. While talking with the Owner Relations person, she said if the unit had to come back to Indiana, only the frame issue would be repaired. All of the other issues would have to be repaired at my dealer. Just great. More time without my brand new Montana! Both side rear skirts have now done this.
[/URL][/img]
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:00 PM   #29
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I cannot remember anyone having a worse experience than you have described. Keystone should provide a replacement fiver.
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:11 PM   #30
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Looks like the unit is coming apart ! I can see them asking a lot of questions. Not only to see if something odd was done but to also try to determine root cause. What are you doing that others who don't have this issue aren't doing is, I'm sure, is their line of thinking. Totally understandable....
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Old 08-02-2016, 02:33 PM   #31
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Nothing in this or unit, or towed with any other truck than my last two Sandpiper 5ers. Bought them all from the same dealer as a matter of fact! Not a single problem like this with either of those units. The dealer says that the side skirt issue has been common the last year and a half due to the new stapling method Montana uses on the side of the newer units. They've repaired several just this model year. The skirts are taken off and then screwed to the side of the unit farther down the skirt than the staples are shot. Thereby holding them in place whereas the staples pull through the very thin edge of the skirt. It's just things like this that are beginning to get on my nerves at the moment. If we can get the frame, or wall anchor issue corrected, I can live with everything else for a bit. I've just always heard great things about Montana's workmanship, but so far I've been pretty disappointed.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:23 PM   #32
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I'm inclined to agree, it looks like that flexing is all over the place. I don't see how it gets repaired without taking it all apart again. I know nothing about building a fifth wheel, but those images tell me something went wrong in the early stages of manufacture and if Keystone has any sense of doing what's right at all, they will replace your unit with a new one, now. You shouldn't have to sit on the sidelines while they attempt to repair the irreparable. Sorry, but as a guy who has spent his entire working career in manufacturing, seeing this disgusts me. What has happened to the proud tradition of American manufacturing? Keystone should be embarrassed by this. How many more like yours are out there in use or sitting on a dealer's lot? The worst part is they are willing to let you keep on keeping on with this thing. So sorry for your troubles, it really is a beautiful fifth wheel...
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Old 08-04-2016, 02:29 AM   #33
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Georgia law reverts to the federal law dealing with warranties. A recent federal case here http://www.georgiaconsumerlawyer.com...buyers-beware/
There is a lobby here to get things changed as many of you know the RV industry's products have slipped greatly in the last several years.
I've emailed Montana twice now and have gotten the same response from the Owner Relations department saying, "Our frame specialist is reviewing your case and will contact you." No time frame, nothing. We have used our campers every third weekend for the last 6 years and then go with our group every other month somewhere in the southeast. I've told them we have scheduled trips that I cannot get a refund from, and a couple of our places we go, if you are a no-show, your next booking is canceled. All I'm asking is a time frame so I'd know whether to let them know we aren't coming. The factory rep says this will be handled in a matter of days and NOT WEEKS, so we'll see.
My partner at work has an '07 Montana that is still an immaculate unit and one of the reasons I've wanted a Montana for a while. The other was the 3790RD floor plan that we bought. I love the elevated rear den and a little extra storage for things like my wife's hammock. As I've stated, the side skirts are not a big deal. I went to the dealer yesterday and they were repairing a newly delivered front living unit's skirts before they could even put it on the lot. Montana should wake up and change the way they are securing these skirts! I'm more concerned for the frame, as I should be. I thank you all for your input and ideas. I'm going to call my factory rep back later this afternoon if I've not heard from them before hand. I'll keep you guys posted. I don't want this to make it to the "litigation stage" as the owner is usually the loser, but I do have people that can handle that if necessary. I just want to see if Montana stands by their word.
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Old 08-04-2016, 03:35 AM   #34
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You stated the side skirts although no big deal need fixed ... crap ... this whole thing would be a big deal to me. Seeing a dealer shore up a unit before they even put it on their lot and go on to say it is a recurring issue straight from the factory would be a big deal to me as well. I realize you're mentally trying to downplay some of this to keep from popping a cork and I'm no help. We pay a pile of money for these units and I feel not even making it to the dealers in one piece is just sad. Best of luck with your delima.
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Old 08-04-2016, 03:45 AM   #35
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by dieselguy

You stated the side skirts although no big deal need fixed ... crap ... this whole thing would be a big deal to me. Seeing a dealer shore up a unit before they even put it on their lot and go on to say it is a recurring issue straight from the factory would be a big deal to me as well. I realize you're mentally trying to downplay some of this to keep from popping a cork and I'm no help. We pay a pile of money for these units and I feel not even making it to the dealers in one piece is just sad. Best of luck with your delima.
In the grand scheme of things you are CORRECT on all fronts. Good thing this didn't happen 15 years ago or I would be needing bail money already! I'll throw this out there, when the side skirt and trim is off to where you can see the staples, it is RIDICULOUS and a wonder that they even stay on to get off the lot! Oh well, I'm sure if they frequent this forum anymore, they've already figured out who I am, which doesn't bother me in the least. I would just like some communication from them. So far, I'm not impressed with the quality of workmanship in these "high end" campers. Both of my Sandpipers and Vortex TH have had much better quality of work.
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Old 08-04-2016, 09:46 AM   #36
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One thing you can look forward to, if you allow Keystone to fix your frame, is, the frame will be much stronger than any that come off the assembly line. They will get it reinforced and you will not likely have any other issues with it. If they just replaced it with another, what are your chances of having it happen on the new rig? We had our frame fail earlier this year, and with the repairs made by an independent mobile RV repair guy who is also a welder, I doubt I will have any other frame problems, even with the rough roads we have experienced.
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Old 08-05-2016, 08:29 AM   #37
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I left a message with my factory rep again today and he returned my call. He said he would go Monday and see what the hold up was as he was not at work today.
As I stated before, this unit was delivered to us in April. The unit has been to our campgrounds around here, Myrtle Beach and Wisconsin Dells, Wisconsin. Around 3500 miles or so. This is what concerns me as I wondered if I just didn't notice this until after I noticed the skirts. That's when I really started looking at the entire rig. Who knows.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:07 PM   #38
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Well, I did NOT hear from the factory rep today, but I did get an email from the Owner's Relations Department saying this,

Good Morning Mr. *****,

I am writing this morning to provide you with proper direction after formal review of concerns presented to us on your 2016 Keystone Montana. After additional review, Keystone RV is requesting that you obtain an appointment with your authorized facility so that we can work with the dealership to make corrections necessary on your unit. Please update me when you are able to obtain an appointment. I look forward to hearing from you!

Best Regards,

SO! I called the dealer and and was told that they had NO PLACE to put the unit as they have too many to service, repair and get ready to leave. The dealer is a smaller one that is landlocked as to their storage. They go on to say that they have no idea what to do with the unit when it gets there. They state they will NOT take responsibility of going into the nose and welding ANYTHING.
A little more history about my dealer. Thanksgiving before last, my newer Sandpiper was kept at the dealer for a concern on the fridge. I went to pick it up the day after shift to bring it home. I found the unit with a busted glass, & door, with the TV ripped from the wall and stolen, the cabinet doors had all been pried from the stiles instead of opening the them, the bedroom drawers had all been pulled out and busted, my tools stolen from the inside of the unit and I could go on, but you get the picture. They don't want anything of mine anywhere on their property overnight now unless they can put it inside. It turned into a mess to deal with. And YES, I bought from them again as they are the only Montana dealer in this half of the state.
So, not sure how to answer them tomorrow as I've been dwelling on the issue all day. To me, it almost says we aren't going to talk to you, but will talk to the dealer. If that is the case, they have no idea that I am NOT that type of person just to let someone else handle a "safety" concern on my camper that I paid good money for. Been there, done that! The reason I didn't go with FR again this time over the ordeal of my axles on the Sandpiper. Finally had my representation contact the dealer after they asked me NOT to post anything on the forum about what was going on. That didn't sit well. Anyway, the axles were upgraded.
Sorry for the long post. Just thought I'd update you.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:39 PM   #39
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A classic runaround and you are back to square one, with zero resolution particularly since your dealer has already stated he will not or cannot address your frame issue. New rig, under warranty, obvious frame issue. Sounds like it is time to explore legal options. Keystone is worse than incompetent based on your narrative.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:36 PM   #40
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Keystone/Montana will only work through a dealer. That is their business model and you won't be able to change it. They have the dealer do the measurements, pictures and documentation they want. Just like bad tires, picking a bad dealer hurts. You have a coupe of choices that you might try:

1. Call Keystone and have them identify another dealer which will do the diagnosis they want. Yea, you are going to have to get the RV to them.

2. Have Keystone/Montana tow the RV to a repair facility and return it. They will want to pick it up at a dealer. Perhaps your local dealer will do the measurements required with no expectation of fixing the frame issue. Most dealers are not equipped to do that anyway.

3. Go to the rally in Goshen and talk to the service guys directly.

With my frame issue, I dropped the RV at my dealer, and a hour later a hauler picked it up and took it Pendlelton, OR (they have a factory there) where they fixed it. Then Keystone/Montana had it towed back to my dealer. Admittedly both my dealer and I had conversations with customer and dealer relations. That is why a supportive dealer is so important.
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