Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Solar, Charging Systems, Batteries and Electrical
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2022, 08:51 AM   #1
Rocky Road
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Titusville
Posts: 4
M.O.C. #28881
Exclamation Possible factory defect, fire hazard

I have a 2016 Montana 3711FL with generator. I am the second owner and have been living in it full time for 15 months now. We recently had some work done at a Keystone authorized dealer and part of the work included removing the shore power receptacle. Shortly after, we started experiencing issues with the AC power system. Usually, in morning, would hear power switch clicking furiously then power would go out. Unplug from shore power, check plugs and then power would come back on but only to certain outlets. We also discovered that the external surge protector we use as well as one in coach used to protect computers, were fried. Also discovered that one leg of shore power cord was fried. Replaced everything and power was good for another day. Again, power switch started clicking furiously and power was lost. After conferring with a repair tech, I replaced the power selection switch. All good until next day, same issues with electrical burning smell. Started checking power at pedestal, all good. Checked power coming into power select switch and discovered that one leg was dead and other leg showed 240v to groundÖ.no bueno! Pulled shore power receptacle and discovered neutral and power wires were reversedÖ..however, they were correctly wired following the color coding on receptacle. The receptacle was incorrectly color coded so the assumption is that receptacle was correctly wired (automated?) at factory in spite of color coding, but incorrectly wired by tech, who wired according to color coding thus causing fire hazard.
I contacted Keystone and they are so far not taking responsibility. I have offered them the opportunity to examine for themselves the defective receptacle. When I did discover the defects, there was extensive burning of the wires and terminals. Had a fire started, it would have originated right below the bed.
This is the only explanation I can offer, the incorrect wiring was discovered by an electrician, so to some degree, canít be attributed to just operator error.
Anyone else have similar issues?
 
Rocky Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 09:21 AM   #2
AZ Traveler
Site Team
 
AZ Traveler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Oro Valley
Posts: 3,339
M.O.C. #20477
Mark,

Sounds like the tech that did your repair did not check his work with a voltmeter. Surprised your internal EMS did not catch it also. Might also have a transfer switch problem.

You use both an internal and external EMS/surge protector?
__________________
Zack and Donna plus Millie and Ranger
2018 3160RL

"Life is too short to stay indoors, enjoy the ride!"
AZ Traveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 09:34 AM   #3
Rocky Road
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Titusville
Posts: 4
M.O.C. #28881
Tech wired according to color coding on receptacle. At first we thought we had been hit by lightning, but pedestal was all good. Don’t know how or why panel breakers didn’t trip, maybe because never exceeded amperage. We had an internal power strip surge protector and external protector on shore power cord. Since reversing neutral and hot leg on receptacle, no issues. I did replace power select switch but problem continued afterwards.
Rocky Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 11:04 AM   #4
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,527
M.O.C. #6433
Curious what brand outlet and how the terminals were labeled. The 14-50R outlets I have seen were labeled NEU, GND, X, and Y. With X and Y being the hots.

Some have even had gold screws for hots, silver for neutral, and green for ground.
__________________
Bill & Patricia
BB_TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 01:14 PM   #5
kowbra
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Battleford
Posts: 594
M.O.C. #26690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Road View Post
Tech wired according to color coding on receptacle. At first we thought we had been hit by lightning, but pedestal was all good. Donít know how or why panel breakers didnít trip, maybe because never exceeded amperage. We had an internal power strip surge protector and external protector on shore power cord. Since reversing neutral and hot leg on receptacle, no issues. I did replace power select switch but problem continued afterwards.
First, it looks like you may be new here, so welcome!

I agree with Zack - the tech should have verified the work with a voltmeter, which they obviously did not do.
Should Keystone have a more accurate wiremap? It would seem so.
Should they accept 100% responsibility for any issues that arise due to an incorrect wiremap? That's where I think they could push back and say the tech did not follow correct verification procedures using a voltmeter.

The challenge in all of this, I believe, is that the governing bodies (RVIA, other?) do not require technicians to be journeyman electricians when working with high voltage components. This is simply not the case with other high voltage work, such as in our homes or offices. So, of course, RV techs are not journeyman electricians because if they were they would work for more money doing residential or commercial work.

I am glad you brought it to the attention in the forum here, so that other members are aware of this potential issue. I am having a transfer switch replaced as we speak, and based on this will make sure that the techs check the wiring with a voltmeter when done.

But my advice when dealing with Keystone is to tread softly and ask nicely. They may not believe they have a responsibility here, and they may be right.

"Asking for a favor" will come across very differently than "demanding a resolution". In general, that advice will serve you well when dealing with any issues with Keystone/Montana. I can say from experience, when I've taken the former route, the folks at Montana have been fantastic; in fact far better than I've seen with the other brands we've had and in some cases exceeding my expectations (and we bought a new unit last year so my expectations are high).

I do hope that is helpful!

Brad
__________________
2021 Montana 3790RD, Legacy, Super Solar Flex
2020 RAM 3500 Limited, HO
kowbra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2022, 02:17 PM   #6
Foldbak
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Shingle Springs
Posts: 576
M.O.C. #30417
Welcome to the forums and what Brad said.
__________________
Tony & Donna
2022 Montana High Country 295RL, Solar Flex 400, Onan 3600 LPG, 2000 Dimensions inverter
2020 GMC Denali 2500 6.6 Duramax, Demco 21K Auto Slide
Foldbak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 08:26 AM   #7
Rocky Road
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Titusville
Posts: 4
M.O.C. #28881
Thanks. I’m not looking for anything from Keystone. The issue I have is probably pretty unique but if there is a possibility of defective components that could cause a fire, I want others to know and am curious if anyone else has experienced similar issues.
Rocky Road is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2022, 08:49 AM   #8
BB_TX
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 6,527
M.O.C. #6433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky Road View Post
Thanks. I’m not looking for anything from Keystone. The issue I have is probably pretty unique but if there is a possibility of defective components that could cause a fire, I want others to know and am curious if anyone else has experienced similar issues.
I believe I am correct in thinking you are talking about the receptacle on the trailer where the power cord plugs in. Correct?

There have been a number of reports of burned wires in that receptacle from overheating due to poor wire connections. (poor wire connections have been a issue in other areas also.) But none that were due to reversing the hot and neutral. I am still curious about the color coding labeling. All the 50 amp plugs and receptacles I have seen had terminals labeled X and Y for the two hots, N or NEU or W for neutral, and G or GND or no label for ground. And some also with color coded screws, two gold screws for hot, one silver for neutral, and one green for ground. What was the terminal labeling for your receptacle?
__________________
Bill & Patricia
BB_TX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 07:15 PM   #9
Mark7
Montana Fan
 
Mark7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Fargo
Posts: 124
M.O.C. #19032
[QUOTE=Rocky Road;1257917]Checked power coming into power select switch and discovered that one leg was dead and other leg showed 240v to groundÖ.no bueno! /QUOTE]

I am having a very hard time with that one. I do not see that as being possible in a standard 120 / 240 volt situation. One leg cannot possibly show 240 V to ground.

Possibly one of the 2 120 V legs was on the ground terminal in the plug? In that case the ground tab on the 50A twist lock would had 120 V on it and quite probable so did the frame of your rig.

A am glad I can do my own service work on all of my RV systems. Some of the stories I read here scare the heck out of me.
__________________
2004 Montana 3295RK
2014 Ram / Cummins 2500
Summer season weekend warrior
Mark7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.