Cracks in walls on our 3750fl - Page 5 - Montana Owners Club

**DQDick** · 12-03-2013, 06:11 AM

Worth keeping an eye on until the real cause is known.

Irlpguy · 12-03-2013, 06:32 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Bruce Perlee

Update: Keystone has authorized expansion joints in the fiberglass near the outside cracks and cosmetic repair of the cracks with no investigation of the cause. The inside cracks are to be covered up so they will not be as noticeable. It seems to us like it's a quick fix without finding the real cause of the problem.

You are wrong Bruce, this is not even a quick "fix", it most certainly is quick but it in no way addresses the problem, nor by the sound of it, does it change the appearance to the point the inside cracks are no longer visible.

I am sure Keystone is well aware there is a problem, it exists because the walls no longer have any structural strength, if one weld breaks on the wall frame, if the glue that holds the wall to that frame fails in any area these cracks will be the result.

Before I bought my Montana I always said there is no way those walls with those big cut outs can stand up to travel on our crappy roads. I should have kept that thought when we were tempted into buying one of these units. We have frame flex, Keystone also authorized a "field repair" which does not stop the flex it merely hid the damage done.

Take a look at the road side wall on a new 3850FL and see how much structural strength remains on that wall. There absolutely has to be movement as it goes down the road, I cannot see how this can effectively be addressed in the construction of these units.

I would not settle for what Keystone is so far offering as a repair, I wish as a group we could put sufficient pressure on Keystone to address this ongoing issue.

Artemus Gordon · 12-03-2013, 07:25 AM

Sadly the issue can only be addressed , if a large number of rigs start failing in this way. Perhaps some units have the problem, and owners don't know it? One unit does not a problem make? My 3750 with nearly 19k miles over very "crappy highways" has no cracks! I had RV inspection completed today, which included dismantle of front hitch, opening of front cap, to look for weld failures. No indication of problems as of now. Cost me about $250.00 but it's worth the peace of mind!

From a manufacturers view, this may be an isolated event, therefore not an indication of product failure, but most likely customer usage issue. Don't shoot me for my comments, but you have little recourse legally without more evidence. When looked at in that light, I think it's Keystone that's going above and beyond, on an older unit, most other brands for customer service. Your question about pressures from by MOC may have been answered. They monitor this site daily.

Artemus Gordon · 12-03-2013, 10:50 AM

P.S. I run into many Montana's in my travels. I will start looking at the "3750's" more carefully. Have already looked at 3 since original posting and seen no indication of cracks !

[/quote]

Irlpguy · 12-03-2013, 12:10 PM

Artemus I would neither shoot you for your comments nor am I arguing with you about the issue.

"IF" my 3402RL had left the factory with sufficient space for the closet wall to move without damaging it and "IF" a portion of the glue on the wall on the side of the bedroom slide had not separated from the aluminum wall frame I would not have known I had frame flex sufficient to cause problems.

Let us not pretend this "flex" does not exist and try to understand why it showed up in the way it did on my unit and on Bruce's. Simple on mine, the wall was too tight and the glue job was poor. But what about the major cracks in Bruce's unit, did a weld break in the upper corners of the slide opening, is the outer and inner wall still glued to the wall frame. What Keystone has authorized in no way addresses the underlying problem, it merely hides the damage that was done because something obviously failed.

Should Bruce be responsible to pay to determine what happened, or should Keystone step up and actually "FIX" the problem.

There are other members currently fighting this same battle in attempting to have their issues addressed. The MOC has a fairly large membership, however that is miniscule compared to the folks who own Keystone products who may be experiencing these exact same problems. The determination of whether a problem exists cannot be made by counting only those who report it here on the MOC. You will never have an admission of a problem from Keystone, that we can pretty much guarantee.

It is unfortunate Bruce's cracks were not apparent when he was at the Fall Rally, it would have been interesting to see how it would have been dealt with at the factory and in front of all those other Montana owners.

Tom S. · 12-03-2013, 02:52 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Irlpguy

It is unfortunate Bruce's cracks were not apparent when he was at the Fall Rally, it would have been interesting to see how it would have been dealt with at the factory and in front of all those other Montana owners.

My experience at the rally has been that if you have a problem and bring it to their attention, they fix it. End of story.

On a side note, as a former machinist, it is well known that when making a cut, you leave a radius in the corner if at all possible. Sharp corners will crack a lot easier under stress than one with a radius. I wonder if that was the issue with this unit.

Bruce Perlee · 12-04-2013, 01:04 AM

After speaking with Keystone customer relations late yesterday afternoon they assured us that their service department and engineers have spent much time reviewing our problem. They are certain it is stress fractures. They have authorized to have the repairs be made and will monitor the progress. Our experience with the service department in Goshen has been very positive and we have been pleased with the results. We expect the same outcome this time.

K0LCB · 12-04-2013, 01:58 AM

Good luck, Bruce! I hope everything comes out ok.

scott-pati · 12-04-2013, 03:07 AM

Bruce, do you have the paramount package or the package that has the 12" I-beam. I was thinking this might only happen on the smaller I-beams vs the 12". Just curious what size your I-beam is?

Bruce Perlee · 12-04-2013, 03:10 AM

We have the 10" I beam.

scott-pati · 12-04-2013, 04:00 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Bruce Perlee

We have the 10" I beam.

Maybe that is the weakness and maybe causing the cracking? IDK. Just trying to help figure this one out...

Irlpguy · 12-04-2013, 05:05 AM

Good luck Bruce, I hope you are completely satisfied with the final repairs. Fortunately you are able to take it to Goshen and not have to rely on a dealer to do the repairs.

artfuldodger · 12-05-2013, 12:18 AM

Hi Bruce and MaryAnn,
When all is said and done, I believe Montana will step up and do the right thing by you. This forum can harm them if they let it or it can be their best advertisement. The members here are laden with life and business experience. When a service problem like yours comes up you can try to stonewall the customer and he might even go away, but with the internet his bad experience will be broadcast nationwide OR you can do what you know is right and fair, deal with the problem quickly and completely, and the problem becomes a large positive for the company. All companies have service problems and customers acknowledge that fact. How a company deals with it makes all the difference and I believe that Montana is one of the "good guys." (So far at least). Thanks for your hospitality Bruce and MaryAnn and we'd love to see you up here in the frozen North soon.

bjlks · 12-05-2013, 02:06 AM

Fixing and Authorization
If the said unit was built right to start with, there would be no need for a FIX. I hope Keystone will fix the problem, on future units and not a cover up, cheap way out.

Artemus Gordon · 12-05-2013, 05:52 PM

I personally would be happy with anything Keystone will do. Can't expect them to replace an older unit? That's just not going to happen in the real world. In addition the question about "how trailer was treated" or used has not been addressed. I still question how long the cracks were visible. On my unit I look over nearly every inch after each set up/tear down. Plus mine gets washed and waxed very frequently. In my case, I would know exactly the time frame cracks began. At least within two or three week period. I hope it all works out. Big question for me is how, they will blend in the gel coat repairs on a unit with some age ?

tlrawlings · 12-12-2013, 04:58 AM

I have a 3750fl that's in the shop for this issue but I had an accident back in May 2013 and ripped the back cap off. I noticed the cracks right after that and due to my insurance company I waited till I got back to Houston, TX to have fixed. The rig took a hard hit and twisted the front back and forth which I attribute to my cracks. They pealed back the fiberglass and both sides have major cracks on all the welds which the insurance company now states is because of the type of slide it is.
How do I post pictures or can we?

tlrawlings · 12-12-2013, 05:00 AM

I have a 3750fl that's in the shop for this issue but I had an accident back in May 2013 and ripped the back cap off. I noticed the cracks right after that and due to my insurance company I waited till I got back to Houston, TX to have fixed. The rig took a hard hit and twisted the front back and forth which I attribute to my cracks. They pealed back the fiberglass and both sides have major cracks on all the welds which the insurance company now states is because of the type of slide it is.
How do I post pictures or can we?

bncinwv · 12-12-2013, 05:32 AM

If you go to the home page at the top of each page, there is a section with a tutorial for posting pictures. I use photobucket.com as the host site, but the principle is the same. The thing to remember is that pictures have to be hosted on the web at a site independent of this forum. The image code from whichever site is used is then inserted into posts, signatures, etc. to appear on the forum.
Bingo

Bruce Perlee · 01-10-2014, 01:25 AM

GOOD NEWS!!! They are working on our Monty and they told us it may be done next week. They found the cause of the fractures. When the sliders were fully extended they we not hitting the stops causing extreme pressure on the slider opening. Looking forward to shorts and flip flops in the near future.

bncinwv · 01-10-2014, 01:35 AM

Sounds exactly like what Kerry had mentioned in a previous post, here was my follow up post on page 6:

It could be related to the slide since the slide is only inches away from the rear door frame. Kerry may well have pre-diagnosed the problem, since the slide closing in an incorrect manner could stress the side walls sufficiently to cause the cracks and affect the door jamb as well. Personally, I would not think you would have frame or flex problems at the rear of the rig, but anything is always a possibility.
Bingo

Good to hear that Keystone found the primary cause, a superficial cosmetic repair would not have prevented the issue from recurring. Hope the repairs are to your complete satisfaction and thanks for the follow-up!!

Bingo

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