Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > TIRES, Montana Tires
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-19-2020, 01:27 PM   #41
Fish
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Marion
Posts: 234
M.O.C. #22281
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalandLinda View Post
It's an industry thing. When a consumer provides their vehicle for replacement tires the tire installers are going to compare the consumer's replacement request with the vehicle certification information. To follow industry standards they can't use tires with a different size designation without vehicle manufacturer approval, it constitutes a misapplication of the replacement tires. Normally they will consult their computer files to see if their are recommendations from the vehicle manufacturer. If not they may contact them for verification.

When a consumer walks in with their wheels in hand it frees the tire installer from performing a misapplication. All they have to do is verify the wheels and valve stems can withstand the load and pressure ratings of the replacement tires and that the tires are appropriate for the wheels. The bill of sale is not going to show any vehicle identification or VIN numbers.
I really doubt any tire installers do that.
 
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 384BR
2018 Ram cclb 4x4 6.7 cummins/aisin dually
Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 01:40 PM   #42
CalandLinda
Montana Master
 
CalandLinda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Taylors
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #15948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I really doubt any tire installers do that.
If they are working for a well established retailer it's part of their training.
CalandLinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 02:23 PM   #43
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
I just got done researching old Montana brochures on the Keystone site, and since 2011, the Goodyear G614 was offered as an option using the same aluminum wheels that the E range Marathons were mounted on. The G614's only come in an 85 series, so as a point of discussion, any Montana since 2011 could have the 80 series E range tire or the 85 series G range tire until the model year 2017 when the G range tires were installed as a standard tire. The sad thing about the E range tires on these older rigs is, Keystone derated the 7,000 pound axle to 6750 lbs, just so the 3420 lb rated Marathons would be legal. With the G614's, the same axle would be fully rated to 7,000 pounds. We've been running the G614's since 2013 and have had no issues related to the tire size, and if we had not bought the rig off the lot and had ordered it, it would have been ordered with the G614 tires installed.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 02:45 PM   #44
CalandLinda
Montana Master
 
CalandLinda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Taylors
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #15948
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
I just got done researching old Montana brochures on the Keystone site, and since 2011, the Goodyear G614 was offered as an option using the same aluminum wheels that the E range Marathons were mounted on. The G614's only come in an 85 series, so as a point of discussion, any Montana since 2011 could have the 80 series E range tire or the 85 series G range tire until the model year 2017 when the G range tires were installed as a standard tire. The sad thing about the E range tires on these older rigs is, Keystone derated the 7,000 pound axle to 6750 lbs, just so the 3420 lb rated Marathons would be legal. With the G614's, the same axle would be fully rated to 7,000 pounds. We've been running the G614's since 2013 and have had no issues related to the tire size, and if we had not bought the rig off the lot and had ordered it, it would have been ordered with the G614 tires installed.
The G614s don't meet the minimum RVIA recommendation for fitment on vehicle certified 7000# axles. It's probably why you'll start seeing the ST235/80R16 LRG or ST235/85R16 LRF as Original equipment tires on 7000# axles.
CalandLinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 05:40 PM   #45
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
The G614 is rated the same as the wheels, 3750 lbs at 110psi, so more tire still wouldn’t make any difference. Are the new wheels rated even higher than 3750 lbs? Even a tire rated at 4400 lbs is still only able to carry no more than the wheel weight rating.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 06:52 PM   #46
Golfmedik
Montana Master
 
Golfmedik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auburn
Posts: 879
M.O.C. #18474
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
The G614 is rated the same as the wheels, 3750 lbs at 110psi, so more tire still wouldn’t make any difference. Are the new wheels rated even higher than 3750 lbs? Even a tire rated at 4400 lbs is still only able to carry no more than the wheel weight rating.
That is true about the weight rating of the wheels, which is the reason I have a new set of #4400 wheels. As far as the RVIA recommendation, as funny as it sounds, only relates to the tires at 10% reserve, NOT the wheels.
__________________
2020 Montana 3790RD Legacy EditionOnan, TST TPMS, TrailAir pin, Discs,
2013 F350 DRW 4x4 CC LBViair 10007, Ride-Rites, Westin HDx, 12k Smittybilt
Golfmedik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 07:57 PM   #47
CalandLinda
Montana Master
 
CalandLinda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Taylors
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #15948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfmedik View Post
That is true about the weight rating of the wheels, which is the reason I have a new set of #4400 wheels. As far as the RVIA recommendation, as funny as it sounds, only relates to the tires at 10% reserve, NOT the wheels.
The FMVSS requires OE tires and wheels to be appropriate for the vehicle manufacture's certified axle ratings.
CalandLinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2020, 10:15 PM   #48
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,672
M.O.C. #12947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfmedik View Post
That is true about the weight rating of the wheels, which is the reason I have a new set of #4400 wheels. As far as the RVIA recommendation, as funny as it sounds, only relates to the tires at 10% reserve, NOT the wheels.
Ok, thanks. So, I’m 200 lbs shy of the 10% cushion, but that rule didn’t apply to my rig, but with axles that were derated for cheap 10 ply Marathons, I’ve got tires that give me an additional 660 lbs of weight capacity over the Marathons that came on the rig, and in over 6 years running the G614’s, I have had no issues with the tires. There was no recall on my rig to replace the tire label for the 10% rule either.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2020, 09:50 AM   #49
CalandLinda
Montana Master
 
CalandLinda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Taylors
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #15948
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohrmann View Post
Ok, thanks. So, I’m 200 lbs shy of the 10% cushion, but that rule didn’t apply to my rig, but with axles that were derated for cheap 10 ply Marathons, I’ve got tires that give me an additional 660 lbs of weight capacity over the Marathons that came on the rig, and in over 6 years running the G614’s, I have had no issues with the tires. There was no recall on my rig to replace the tire label for the 10% rule either.
The RVIA recommendation has nothing to do with vehicle certification. It's just an outside of the government recommendation for it's participating members.

Remember, for all practical purposes, your axles are not certified for 7000#.
CalandLinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2020, 02:17 PM   #50
PSFORD99
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Centerville
Posts: 1,347
M.O.C. #9051
Well there has certainly been a lot of Koolaid drank on this thread . Good grief , run either they both will handle the load of most Montana fifth wheels . Just make sure you got the clearance. I run the Sailun 85's, a good friend also runs the 85's , we both have a slight bit of rubbing on just one fender on one tire. So that size difference could make a difference on clearance .
PSFORD99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2020, 03:16 PM   #51
powerhaulic
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: piseco
Posts: 258
M.O.C. #20884
Ours came equipped with Sailuns 235/80-16G. I removed tires and installed TPMS to communicate with our new GMC for pressure and temp.
I threw the tires on the balancer out of curiosity before dismount. I was pleasantly surprised how true the tire runs, and balance was not too bad. (worst one was 3oz out)
Spending the time to do a good balance, and having nice round tires makes the towing experience more enjoyable.
Back to the real reason for my reply, when these wear or time out they will be replaced by 235/85-16 as i could raise the rear a touch for perfect leveling. We're at 5" box clearance.
__________________
2020 AT4 3500 SRW Duramax SB
2018 Denali Duramax crew (traded)
2018.5 Montana 3811MS Legacy
Lippert AirRide pinbox / PullRite SuperLight hitch
powerhaulic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2020, 01:05 PM   #52
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
Every tire expert I have ever talked to recommended max cold tire pressure as designated on the tire. This reduces heat build up and easier roll down the road. Unless you are overloaded, I have been told by countless people including an engineer at Goodyear, this is the safest way to go. No brainer.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2020, 06:36 PM   #53
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
As far as going to the 85’s, to get more height, you might as well stay with the 80’s and raise your rv with the lift blocks under your springs. In the long run, its a better and less expensive way to go without the tire rub. Plus, you can get the exact amount of lift you need. I have a 2018 358BH with 7000 lb. rated axles. Says that on my placard on the RV, plus there are two tags on the axles themselves. One says the axle rating is 7000lbs. and is a Keystone tag. The other is the axle manufacturer tag that states the axle is rated at 7000lbs. My axles are obviously not derated to a lower axle rating. Ok, so now tell me those ratings are wrong..... don't think so.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2020, 08:50 PM   #54
CalandLinda
Montana Master
 
CalandLinda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Taylors
Posts: 562
M.O.C. #15948
A posting recap, than I’m out of this one for good.

First is a referral back to post #7.

Misapplication; it’s a very misunderstood word with RV trailer tire applications. When reading tire warranties you’ll always find that misapplications apply to all replacement tire fitments. The basic description of a tire misapplication for RV trailers is; replacement tires must be the same designated size as the Original Equipment tires or on approval/optional recommendation by the vehicle manufacturer (An approval/recommendation only applies to the year and model number mentioned in the paperwork. You’ll also find a similar statement in your trailer’s owner’s manual under the reference “tire size”. It’s not a misapplication to add a load capacity to replacement tires of the same designated size, such as using a ST225/75R15 LRE to replace a ST225/75R LRD. Wheel PSI for the LRE must be met.

The RVIA 10% load capacity recommendation is just that, a recommendation. It has nothing to do with government regulations or standards which are unchanged. It’s just something the RV trailer manufacturers must do to stay in good standing with the large RVIA organization.

Wheels that provide a load capacity and PSI rating of a replacement tire with more load capacity than the OE tires don’t have to be changed. Wheels are only required to carry the load of the vehicle certified GAWRs. Not overloading the GAWRs is an owner’s responsibility.

When modifications for lifting your trailer are performed, it’d be a good idea not to exceed the maximum height allowed in the state of registration.

Remember: The information on the vehicle certification label, once transferred to a consumer, can only be changed by the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier.

I feel compelled to insert this one statement from FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S5.3.1 Tires. The size designation and the recommended cold inflation pressure for those tires such that the sum of the load ratings of the tires on each axle is appropriate for the GAWR. That's the bottom line, minimum requirement and is found on the vehicle certification label.

Just in case you don’t want to look it up, here is a verbatim quote from the Keystone generic owner’s manual (page #21).

Tire Size:

“To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the tire dealer.”

My reference materials: FMVSS (standards) – USTMA standards manual for RVs – Keystone owner’s manual.
CalandLinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 03:52 AM   #55
RMcNeal
Montana Master
 
RMcNeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 2,109
M.O.C. #25165
I know this horse has been dead a while, so I won't beat it any more. Just a quick question about the Keystone owner's manual. It says-
“To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer."
Is that the tire manufacturer or trailer manufacturer? Isn't Keystone the latter?
__________________
Robert & Diana McNeal
2019 Montana Legacy 3791RD 20th Anniversary Edition
2014 F350 4x4 6.7L SRW
RMcNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 12:49 PM   #56
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMcNeal View Post
I know this horse has been dead a while, so I won't beat it any more. Just a quick question about the Keystone owner's manual. It says-
“To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer."
Is that the tire manufacturer or trailer manufacturer? Isn't Keystone the latter?
Yes, that would be Keystone/Montana.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 01:07 PM   #57
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
For a set of Sailun 85’s, they are about $60 for four, more that the 80’s. For less than $150 you can lift your trailer at the springs . If you do it yourself, less than that. There are threads in the forum that cover this topic with pictures. No tire rub, ever. Seems to me its a safer and inexpensive way to go vs. going to 85’s for an inch or two of lift. Just me!
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 01:13 PM   #58
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalandLinda View Post
A posting recap, than I’m out of this one for good.

First is a referral back to post #7.

Misapplication; it’s a very misunderstood word with RV trailer tire applications. When reading tire warranties you’ll always find that misapplications apply to all replacement tire fitments. The basic description of a tire misapplication for RV trailers is; replacement tires must be the same designated size as the Original Equipment tires or on approval/optional recommendation by the vehicle manufacturer (An approval/recommendation only applies to the year and model number mentioned in the paperwork. You’ll also find a similar statement in your trailer’s owner’s manual under the reference “tire size”. It’s not a misapplication to add a load capacity to replacement tires of the same designated size, such as using a ST225/75R15 LRE to replace a ST225/75R LRD. Wheel PSI for the LRE must be met.

The RVIA 10% load capacity recommendation is just that, a recommendation. It has nothing to do with government regulations or standards which are unchanged. It’s just something the RV trailer manufacturers must do to stay in good standing with the large RVIA organization.

Wheels that provide a load capacity and PSI rating of a replacement tire with more load capacity than the OE tires don’t have to be changed. Wheels are only required to carry the load of the vehicle certified GAWRs. Not overloading the GAWRs is an owner’s responsibility.

When modifications for lifting your trailer are performed, it’d be a good idea not to exceed the maximum height allowed in the state of registration.

Remember: The information on the vehicle certification label, once transferred to a consumer, can only be changed by the vehicle manufacturer or a certified vehicle modifier.

I feel compelled to insert this one statement from FMVSS 571.120 paragraph S5.3.1 Tires. The size designation and the recommended cold inflation pressure for those tires such that the sum of the load ratings of the tires on each axle is appropriate for the GAWR. That's the bottom line, minimum requirement and is found on the vehicle certification label.

Just in case you don’t want to look it up, here is a verbatim quote from the Keystone generic owner’s manual (page #21).

Tire Size:

“To maintain tire safety, purchase new tires that are the same size as the vehicle’s original tires or another size recommended by the manufacturer. Look at the Tire and Loading Information label, or the sidewall of the tire you are replacing to find this information. If you have any doubt about the correct size to choose, consult with the tire dealer.”

My reference materials: FMVSS (standards) – USTMA standards manual for RVs – Keystone owner’s manual.
I agree. Better to go with a lift at the springs. Keep your 80’s and not worry about tire rub. You can get a much better result and have the lift you need, as long as it’s not excessive.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 06:21 PM   #59
Ram Montana High Country
Montana Master
 
Ram Montana High Country's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: POINTBLANK
Posts: 1,873
M.O.C. #19944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelff View Post
I agree. Better to go with a lift at the springs. Keep your 80’s and not worry about tire rub. You can get a much better result and have the lift you need, as long as it’s not excessive.
Tire Rub - I've not had tire rub on either unit ... this is the first I've heard of rub.
__________________
RAM 22' DRW 3500 Crew LB 40 gal reserve tank / RETRAX Bed Cover / 2020 373RD HC / IS / MOPEKA Tank Monitor / Furrion Side&Rear Cameras
Slide Toppers / EMS-HW50C / Sailun 85's
3rd AC / Dometic 320
Ram Montana High Country is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 07:03 PM   #60
Mikelff
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Keller
Posts: 499
M.O.C. #26851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ram Montana High Country View Post
Tire Rub - I've not had tire rub on either unit ... this is the first I've heard of rub.
Somewhere in the above posts they talk about a tire rubbing a fender or fender well.
Mikelff is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.