Main Entry Door Problems

[Monti gren]

I had that problem. I realized the steps were to. I adjusted the legs to bring the step plate down to get the lower part of the door to clear the step plate.

[jdarwin]

Originally Posted by tcmontana62

I have a 2021 Montana High Country the had the same problem. I took it in for service as was told that the door was coming apart. The door spring hinge was not installed properly and was buckling the door and was coming apart inside, The door had to be rebuild and the hinged modified and then properly installed. I'm basically 4 months out of warranty and Keystone would not pay for it or my extended warranty.

I'd try to get the door replaced.



We had the same problem on our 2019. The Keystone techs (at last year's rally) took a dead blow hammer and beat the metal frame where the paint had come off. I complained to Keystone (through the wagon masters) and Keystone said to take it to an authorized service center. I took it to Affinity RV in Goshen. They worked (same location as yours) on it and got back in fairly decent condition but, it still, never really shut right.



Once we got back to Ft Worth, I tried to have the door replaced but Keystone rejected it saying it had already been repaired.

[IRollman]

Well, I figured out what was happening. It's not good, but at least I know. Now that I know what I'm looking at, it's obvious.

A mobile RV tech was at our site and I had him take a quick look at the door. He saw the problem right away, and it's related to the friction hinges. Reference the attached sketch, and forgive my poor artwork. You are looking at a cross-section of the door from above, cut at about the level of the middle hinge.



Top sketch shows a normal door. Hinge is red, door frame is dark blue, Styrofoam core is orange, skin of the door is purple. Everything is in alignment - all the "corners" are at 90°.

Second sketch shows what happened to my door. The hinge is really snug when closing. So it's actually bending the door frame, and the outer skin of the door has pulled out from under the frame over about 2/3 the length of the door. This has a practical impact of making the door wider across, hence having to slam it to close, and not being able to adjust the gap out. The sketch looks like it's exaggerated, and it is, but I don't think by much. Seriously.

Third sketch is my first idea of a fix. I'd somehow have to draw the door back together (woodworker's pipe clamps?), then run screws in about every 2-3" of the frame along the hinge side. Hopefully there would be enough "meat" of the door skin behind the frame for this to work, but iffy.

Last sketch is a neighbor's idea. I'd run threaded rod across the door (inside the door - should be easy to get through, as there are no structural members inside the door, it's just a Styrofoam core), use a T-nut on the latch side and a nut on the hinge side. I could drill a "pocket" on the door frame at the nut location to accommodate it.

Incidentally, the neighbor also has friction hinges, and we noticed the same thing staring to happen on his door. His rig is under a year old.

I might also try to replace the hinges with real hinges to alleviate the friction issues. But I'd still need to do the door repair.

Camping World is going to get me a quote on a new door, but I expect that to be in the thousands (1-2, but that's not based on anything but a feeling).

I've had it for 4 years, so I'm well outside of warranty.

[Mikendebbie]

Excellent sketches and explanation. This makes complete sense. The internal threaded rod look like the best fix to me if it can be done. What do you think would be the best way to get a threaded rod thru the foam without wallowing out a big tunnel of foam? Lots to think about. I wonder what action causes the “sandwich” door section to come out of its frame? That would be nice to know…maybe treat your door like a princess everytime you close it?

[IRollman]

So the "action" that causes the door to come out of the frame is closing it against the friction. Imagine if the hinge were locked up, and I tried to close it with force. That would pull the door out of the frame. Normal closing of the door, against the friction of the frame, over a period of years, regularly (remember, I'm a full timer), has the same effect.

I think hollowing out the foam core won't be bad. It's styrofoam, so it's soft. I think repeated cycles of moving the threaded rod in and out will give me the pathway I need. I'm not overly concerned with removing too much foam. (Famous last words....)

[tcmontana62]

That is exactly what happened to our door. I sent Keystone a written description of what happened and they basically ignored it. It got to a point that we could barely open the door once we finally got it closed.To me this is a manufactures defect and should be repaired by the manufacturer. This is a critical component of an rv and this issue should be recalled. But Keystone fails to stand by their products.

[ScottM]

I have a 21 HC 294rl (under warranty, and extended) that has this problem as well. Been sparring with Keystone and the dealer for over two months now. $2k estimate for new door, decals, etc. The whole right side of the door from top to bottom has now pulled out. LCI and Keystones official fix is remove screws, then use larger and longer screws beginning from middle hinge out. Screws go into styrofoam, like that's gonna work! Anyways we have attempted the "fix" and now taken new pictures and writeup to respond. Round two here we come....

If your out warranty you have a few options you could try if your door and frame haven't totally self destructed yet:

1. 3 in 1 Penetrating oil starting top to bottom and let gravity work for you. Then keep lube up with normal 3 in 1 lube. This does help.....some.

2. Look at your friction hinges on top and bottom with the door open. On the barrels, you will see some dimples. Carefully drill them out. This is the "friction" part of hinge. Put some black sealant back in for looks. Be careful with door in the wind now.

3. This is last resort. Make sure the door firmly in the frame on the hinge side. We used ratchet straps at top, center, and bottom hinges to pull the door into frame. Very carefully as to not bend the middle of door. Be sure that the panel is far enough in the frame. With that done, the hinge side can be drilled and black rivets installed. (Panel needs to be far enough in the frame so rivets dont pull out). You will still have to lube hinges or drill out the friction pin to avoid the same issue again.

Have done a lot of research and this is not a new problem. "Friction Hinges" have been causing this issue for alot of people, for a long time. Sadly the only true fix is a recall and not use these any longer. Even more sad, the only way anything will change is through a Class action suit.

[tcmontana62]

Unfortunately your right the only way they are going to take responsibility for this defect is thru a class action lawsuit.

[Scootsk]

Originally Posted by tcmontana62

Unfortunately your right the only way they are going to take responsibility for this defect is thru a class action lawsuit.

Count me in.

[mhs4771]

Those friction hinges were a neat idea, but ended up causing more problems than they solved.

[IRollman]

So, the latest update. I finally had time and got around to working on the door today.

Lippert sent me a service bulletin after talking to them that instructed me to basically replace the hinge screws into the door with 1-1/2" screws. I didn't see how that would help, as I don't think there's anything structural in the door to pull it together, but what the heck, 50 screws from McMaster Carr were cheap. So I replaced the screws, and in conjunction, I used a woodworker's pipe clamp ("Pony" clamp) to pull the door back together. The final thing I did was to oil the heck out of all the hinges.

Between all three things, the door is fixed. How long it stays that way is probably dependent on how well oiled I keep the hinges.

I may try to install threaded rod through the door at a few places using T-Bolts (weld nuts) and binding barrels. That would be a more permanent and stronger fix, but the immediate catastrophe is fixed. The step after that might be to replace the hinges with regular (i.e., non-friction) hinges.

FWIW, I found a thread on a Forest River forum complaining about this exact problem, so it's not isolated.

[jpwhite]

Wow glad I found this. I have the same issue with the door on my 2019 3121RL. The upper left of the door was hitting the frame as one of the pictures showed. I assumed it had something frame twisting. I had the folks at General RV Birch Run adjust it a while ago. The charged me 1/2 hour ($80), adjusted the door and painted the frame where it was rubbing. They told me they could not get it perfect, but it does work better. I now routinely put blocks under the jacks, to reduce the travel and that seems to help.

After seeing this, I am going to examine the hinge / and how the door sits within the hinge frame. Thanks!

[LeftOverParts]

Hello All, just joined the forum and this is my first post. Many thanks to all for posting this issue and IRollman for post #23 as we have had the interference problem with the top of the door scrapping the frame for the last couple months on our 2021 3231CK. We've had to constantly slam the door when closing it from the inside.

Took a bar clamp and squeezed the frame surrounding the door as mentioned in the post and found that it compressed about 3/16 of an inch. Could also tell from the outside of the door that the body decals were gapped on the hinge side and that the door was tilted at the top. Clamping the surround almost eliminated the decal gap.

Upon closer inspection, found another item of interest. Although they looked alright, I found that about 1/3 the 18 screws (6 each top, middle, bottom) holding the hinges to the door were stripped or almost stripped and not securing the hinge side of the door very well. In fact, 4 of the 6 screws on the top of the hinge were striped. There is also a sheet metal strip on the hinge edge of the door (behind the alum surround) that the screws are supposed to fasten to. Couldn’t tell if it was from slamming the door, friction hinge, or both but it appeared the door was pulled away from the hinges and that's what contributes to the interference when closing. So, I exchanged all 18 screws with #10 x 3/4 sheet metal screws. (No re-drilling required.) As IRollman points out above, longer screws would not have helped. The #10 head height was the same as the #8s removed so no worries about interference when the door is closed.

One note about the friction hinge is that it is only in the top hinge. Found this out when changing the screws. The middle and bottom hinges swing freely.

To ensure a the problem is fixed, I went ahead and installed the all-thread fix that IRollman described in post #23 using 1/4 stock and it worked! After install, unscrewed the top hinge screws and tightened the new nuts on the all-thread a little more and reinstalled the screws. Happy to report the decal gap is completed eliminated and the door closes like new with almost an 1/8 inch of clearance at the top between the door and frame.

Posted a few pictures showing the #10 screws on the hinges and the all-thread nuts in the frame. (You can also see on the surround where the bronze finish is scraped off.) This may be all you need for this issue - clamp to squeeze the surround and use larger screws.

Regarding install of the all-thread, tried to push it through the foam core (its styrofoam) but met too much resistance and knew it would not track straight. So then carefully used an 18 inch long 3/8 inch drill bit and drilled the foam from both sides making sure the bit was straight and level to avoid drilling through either skin - a potential disaster! (When drilling, protected the door weatherstripping with an old credit card taped into place. Got enough alignment across the door that I could reach in the hole with a pick and center the threads to get the nut on.

Thanks again! Your posts were a great help!

[Todd & Mary]

Between the stairs and the friction hinges this seems to be a common problem. I keep my hinges well oiled, spray the door latch with dry lube and keep the door hinge screws tight. I had issues with my door within 6 months of owning our 3761FL.
I oiled the hinges and that helped. Our screen door latch was an issue as well. It stripped out 1 of the screws holding the latch to the door. I added double sided high bond VBX tape and put a slightly larger screw in the stripped-out hole, without the tape the latch continued to change positions. Just a few other things to keep an eye on I guess!

[Foldbak]

It happens on my rig when I'm not properly leveled. If the site has a dip at the axles or if I'm just relying on the levelers too much. Pay attention prior to leveling and if necessary place blocks under the wheels on the low side to help support the axles.

[LeftOverParts]

Even with the new screws and all-thread mod, when closing the door, I noticed from the outside that the door core still flexes ever so slightly in the surround on the hinge side like IRollman’s diagram in post #23 so lubed the hinges as Tood & Mary wrote above (thanks) and the flexing looks to be eliminated.

One correction to post #33 since it looks like the ability to edit has timed out. The friction hinges are used on the top and bottom hinges.

[Mikendebbie]

Originally Posted by Todd & Mary

I keep my hinges well oiled, spray the door latch with dry lube and keep the door hinge screws tight. I had issues with my door within 6 months of owning our 3761FL. I oiled the hinges and that helped. Our screen door latch was an issue as well.

Todd - what oil or lubricant do you use for these hinges?

[Smitty84]

LeftOverParts
Where did you get the T-Nut for this repair?

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by Smitty84

LeftOverParts
Where did you get the T-Nut for this repair?

T nuts are carried by Ace hardware and can also be purchased on Amazon

[IRollman]

McMaster Carr:

Line Product Ordered Shipped Balance Price Total
2 90596A270 Steel Round-Base Weld Nut, 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 3/4" Base Diameter, 7/8" Barrel Height, Packs of 25 1
Pack
1 0 11.29
Per Pack
11.29
3 98002A987 Steel Binding Barrels, 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 3/4" Long, Packs of 25 1
Pack
1 0 15.47
Per Pack
15.47