Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > MOC Technical Forums > Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-15-2014, 03:15 PM   #1
davidaf
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aguanga
Posts: 606
M.O.C. #13601
Black tank knife valve not closing all the way.

I've suspected the black tank valve isn't closing all the way and now I've confirmed it. 10 days and the little light said half full and the flush gurgle sounded almost empty. I wandered out and looked at the clear flush tube and sure enough black tank contents slowly leaking down the sewer hose. I flushed the tank thoroughly and waited for the water to stop running down the sewer hose, closed the external knife and black tank knife and added water. After a minute i opened the external knife and there was a bit of water. I closed it again and waited another minute and opened to find more water.

So, how the heck do i get to the knife valve? I assume I need to drop the black undercarriage insulation? Anybody have any tricks that may clear any blockage that stops the knife from sealing?

I need to get on top of this one before I end up with the pyramid of doom.
 
davidaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 03:39 PM   #2
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
,Mine has done the same sometimes and lever still does not close all the way( PIECE OF TISSUE IN THE VALVE) but at least it stopped leaking You can take a looksie at it by cutting a access hole like I did to look up there to see how it is working as your wife opens and closes the lever, I cut a hole big enough to get my hand up there to lube the cable and valve then tape it back up with Gorilla duct tape if you have to replace a valve or tear it apart to clean it out you will have to drop the belly cover (Not a big Deal) just a bunch of screws and down it comes,
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 03:50 PM   #3
davidaf
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aguanga
Posts: 606
M.O.C. #13601
Thanks. I generally don't rely on the light. I knew by the sound of the flush that something wasn't right. Especially after 10 days. At day 5 I had two bars, I was hoping the sensor was working right for the first time!
davidaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:01 PM   #4
DQDick
Site Team
 
DQDick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Wilsey
Posts: 18,799
M.O.C. #11455
If you know someone who has a flushing wand or one of the flushing sections of pipe you put on the end of your exit pipe borrow it and try to flush whatever is stuck out the hole. I'd try the non-invasive approach first.
__________________
Dick, Joyce, Diego, Picatso and Gustav
2017 3720 RL, and 2013 HC 343RL
Pullrite Hitch, IS, Disk Brakes, 3rd AC, Winegard Traveler, Bathroom door mod, Dometic 320, couch for desk swap, replaced chairs, sun screens, added awnings, etc.
DQDick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:06 PM   #5
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
ILRPGUY on this forum(WHERE ARE YA ED) has torn the valve apart, put down your Molson's pal and help the man will ya
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 04:21 PM   #6
davidaf
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aguanga
Posts: 606
M.O.C. #13601
I have one of those power flusher things that goes on the exit end of the pipe. I tried about a dozen times to try and clear whatever is in there, i suspect its a small piece of paper (or other yuck) keeping the gate from closing tight as the liquid leaks out very slowly but enough to cause problems.
davidaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 06:12 PM   #7
bigskyjimmy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 2,688
M.O.C. #10696
Yep that is what it is a small piece of paper jammed in there hopefully like mine it will finally dissolve,for the most part mine has but it still leaks a tiny bit but one of these days I think I will remove the valve and clean it all the way in the meantime I use LOTS of water when I flush and I think i will buy a Extra valve for the End of the pipe they are cheap like this one http://tweetys.com/twistonwastevalve3.aspx
__________________
[
bigskyjimmy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 06:32 PM   #8
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
Ha ha you are funny Jimmy, but you are correct I did drop the underbelly and pulled the valve out. It comes apart when you take the four screws out and you can pull it down to work on it. The problem I had was a piece of what I think might have been Kleenex tissue that was like a wad of rubber stopping the knife from closing all the way. Easy to clean out but difficult to get it all back in with the two rubber gaskets staying in the right place until you get it tightened up again. Had to take it out and reposition it a second time before everything stayed in place.

You will want to do a lot of flushing of the tank before you pull that valve apart or you will have a very unpleasant experience under there. At this point the only way to clean everything out is from the toilet by using a flush adapter and lots of water. Make sure the water is clear coming out before you pull it apart.

I did not cut a hole, but dropped the underbelly instead as you need the space to get at the screws and wiggle it in and out of place.

Not fun but not the worst job I have ever done either. Good luck with it.


Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2014, 06:55 PM   #9
davidaf
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aguanga
Posts: 606
M.O.C. #13601
Luckily I have one of those screw on external valves. I was unlucky one to many times to not have one! Thinking about closing the external valve and opening the black valve while filling with several gallons of water, some tank chemical and Calgon to to help break down and/or lubricate the debris so it will move on.
davidaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 12:23 AM   #10
HOOK
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Fayetteville
Posts: 4,200
M.O.C. #11401
Someone on this forum recommended Happy Camper. Since we started using it, there is very little visible paper passing through the clear tube. The clear tube with the hose/flush attachment is a good backup for tank flushing, also.
HOOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 02:52 AM   #11
kdeiss
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Englewood
Posts: 3,095
M.O.C. #164
You can try Thetford Tissue Digester and follow instructions on the bottle they also make a valve lube that you add to the tank!
kdeiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 04:40 AM   #12
Irlpguy
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chilliwack
Posts: 1,520
M.O.C. #12935
I have used Happy Camper for years and always use a treatment each time I empty the black tank. When a piece of Kleenex or other paper that does not digest well gets pushed into the groove of the valve with the blade it just won't dissolve and must be cleaned out. I now have another valve at the outlet but only keep that closed when we are traveling. No surprises now when you take the cap off to hook the hoses on.

Using lots of water with each flush is the best way to assist the paper in dissolving and to break down any other material, just get used to doing that and it should solve most problems.


Irlpguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 06:41 AM   #13
Clemson1881
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Williamston
Posts: 631
M.O.C. #9432
Calgon liquid. Add a cap or two each time you start a new tank. It will eliminate your valve problems. It may take about 10 to 20 tank drainings to clear the first time, but after that you're set.
Clemson1881 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 03:31 PM   #14
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
[quote]Originally posted by Irlpguy

I have used Happy Camper for years and always use a treatment each time I empty the black tank. When a piece of Kleenex or other paper that does not digest well gets pushed into the groove of the valve with the blade it just won't dissolve and must be cleaned out. I now have another valve at the outlet but only keep that closed when we are traveling. No surprises now when you take the cap off to hook the hoses on.

Using lots of water with each flush is the best way to assist the paper in dissolving and to break down any other material, just get used to doing that and it should solve most problems.



Agree with the happy camper treatment also been using it for several years. Also lots of water and the outlet valve.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 04:11 PM   #15
davidaf
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Aguanga
Posts: 606
M.O.C. #13601
We did have our adult daughter with us for a spell, she knows the toilet rules but who knows maybe she dropped something in there out of habit. I'm going to go with Calgon and Thetford dissolver first since I can get those local. Looks like happy camper is mail order only. Not sure where i'll be for the next couple weeks. Once I know my location for a couple weeks i'll put in an order.
davidaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2014, 04:58 PM   #16
rohrmann
Montana Master
 
rohrmann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,677
M.O.C. #12947
With kids and grandkids visiting us on occasion, we had a couple of issues with obstructions at the valve. DW and I decided to remove the moist wipes and anything else in the throne room that could cause a problem. That has solved the problem.

When you do decide to get under your rig to clear the knife valve of whatever is causing the valve to not close, you may want to at least loosen the gray tank valve connection to give you a bit of play to remove the black valve and re-install it. The plumbing from both tanks are connected to the final drain through a wye fitting without any flex connectors. It is very important to position the gaskets properly when re-installing the valve, or you will just be doing it again real soon.
__________________
Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
rohrmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2014, 09:40 AM   #17
jackel1959
Montana Master
 
jackel1959's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Oak Harbor
Posts: 1,529
M.O.C. #2471
David,

We had a problem this summer while about half way into our 10 day vacation in Oregon. The black tank valve would not close all the way and was allowing "liquid" to pass. I tried to devise a work-around until we got home and could get it in for repair, but came to the conclusion that liquid would continue to leak out of the tank and leave solid "stuff" in there which could cause more of a problem. I opened the black valve and drained and flushed the tank thoroughly or so I thought, (see below).

So in the 100* heat, I donned my coveralls and crawled under the rig, dropped the belly pan gaining access to the black tank valve assembly. After much contemplation I loosened the 4 nuts and bolts holding the gate valve assembly and some really nasty "stuff" began leaking down in my direction. Fortunately I had a bucket to catch it which ended up being about 2 gallons worth. A word to the wise.....when you think these tanks are empty THEY ARE NOT!!!! Then to make matters worse, I dropped my ratchet into the bucket of "stuff". I fished it out and rinsed it off (this should keep many of you from borrowing my tools in the future or wanting to shake my hand).

But seriously, what I did find was a piece of toilet paper that had gotten folded over somehow and then jammed between the gate and the groove in the opening. I cleared that and was able to get the valve back together with no issues. It has been working great ever since.

Jack
__________________
Previous:2004 Mountaineer 325FKBS,2010 Montana 3455SA Now:2018 Bighorn 3575EL (SOB's ) Res. Fridge,W/D,Disc Brakes,Water Softener,Dish Tailgater PRO,LioN Batts, several mods.
2021 RAM 3500 Laramie...."LOADED", 4x4, SB H.O. 6.7L, Aisin Trans, PullRite Super Glide Hitch, 52 Gallon Titan Fuel Tank.
jackel1959 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
black tank cable valve poloace General Discussions about our Montanas 11 02-08-2019 04:42 PM
Sewer Knife Valve Aggravation astrungis Repairs & Service 5 06-15-2015 03:07 AM
Black Tank Valve not closing TerryClaudia Repairs & Service 4 10-09-2013 07:25 PM
Black tank check valve DQDick Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 6 01-26-2012 10:49 AM
Black Tank Valve sgf Montana Problems, Problem Solving & Technical Help 5 09-13-2004 03:24 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.