D3500 for 3400? - Page 2 - Montana Owners Club

mlh · 07-04-2010, 04:38 AM

Thanks Steve
Both of your post were very well said, from a man using some common sense and a lot of experience. Your first post did not come across as too harsh.
Lynwood

TLightning · 07-04-2010, 06:24 AM

I thought I explained my "ignore tows fine posts" when I added that these trucks all have the same drive trains. There are two reasons for having my dually...it's what I need to tow within ALL specs and a personal friend (who happens to be my attorney) said the liability exposure to being in an at fault accident and over weight is not worth the risk of saving a few bucks and driving a 3/4 ton truck. Yes, the dually can be inconvenient at times, but in my view it's what I need.

Here's another often forgotten formula...ACTUAL tow capacity is the GCWR minus the weight of the tow vehicle when ready to tow.

sgtpp214 · 07-04-2010, 07:50 AM

Without meaning to it appears I really stirred up a hornet's nest. When we got home to the stick house I called my Dodge dealer and got the specs on my truck. Based on everything the chart at Trailer Life shows a trailer weight limit of 13,100. The dealer confirmed the 9,900 GVWR for the 3500. No new trailer for us unless as I mentioned previously I win the powerball. But first I have to buy a ticket.

Thanks for all the comments which just confirmed my suspicions that with the D3500 the 3400RL wasn't in the picture. Now I have to decide if I should call the dealer back and correct his incorrect figures. Why do they think we are so dumb as to not verify the tales they tell us?

Safe travels everyone

Lawman · 07-05-2010, 12:03 PM

I do more reading than I do posting on this forum and it has been very helpful. I do have one suggestion for posters. Be extremely careful what you post on this forum, it could very well come back to haunt you. It is my professional opinion that a poster should never ever say anything here that he/she would not want repeated at his/her trial. To state, on an open public forum such as this one, that you have been in the past and/or are presently towing and exceeding either GVWR or GCWR is not a good idea. Heaven forbid you should be in an accident, and be at fault and sued, but if so, a good attorney would find this information and present it. I've read all the posts about how those numbers are not "legal requirements." Whether they are or not is really irrelevant, those numbers are placed on the vehicles by the manufacturers as maximum limits...and that's what an attorney would argue. And, again, my opinion, he'd win very easily.

mlh · 07-06-2010, 08:45 AM

Thanks Lawman
Good advice. Like my neighbor said "You can't beat a man at his own trade."
Lynwood

Tom_Holsinger · 07-06-2010, 01:21 PM

Lawman is entirely correct. I am an attorney of the sort known as a litigator, and state based on my personal experience that attorneys really do this. They also ask witnesses during civil discovery, as well as parties, for all names which they have ever used in posting messages on the internet. Then they do web searches for all instances in which those names have ever cropped up. It is arguably legal malpractice for civil attorneys not to do this.

THE funniest instance I have ever heard of concerning this happened in litigation between two California wine giants known as Gallo and Kendall-Jackson, and resulted in a KJ vice-president permanently moving from California to Australia. The mealy-mouthed explanations by KJ in court as to what their guy had said on-line were marvelous.

But it won't be funny when it happens to you. In my professional opinion, it is a mistake for RV'ers to identify their tow vehicle in on-line signatures.

richfaa · 07-06-2010, 02:48 PM

I have no problem with that as our Tv is well within all manufacturers ratings and specifications.

TLightning · 07-06-2010, 03:03 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I have no problem with that as our Tv is well within all manufacturers ratings and specifications.

Same here, for the reasons stated above by our 'in house' attorneys.

blarkman · 07-06-2010, 05:23 PM

I have a friend who was looking at 5th wheels and ended up with a heartland, 31' with 3 slides around 13000 gross. It sure is less weight.

Tom_Holsinger · 07-06-2010, 06:05 PM

Keystone has shown some, but IMO not enough, awareness of this issue. Keystone's marketing department has shown great insight with the lighter-weight Cougar and Montana High Country models, but its legal department was not on the ball in letting marketing tout the latter as being suitable for towing by a 3/4 ton truck. IMO towed RV manufacturers should say nothing whatever about tow vehicles because vehicle personal injury lawyers will twist it when they sue everyone marginally involved in any accident involving a towed RV.

But the Cougar and Montana High Country models are perfectly positioned to take advantage of market breaks created by tow vehicle size. 2500 series Dodge and GM pickups cost about 40% more than comparable 1500 series pickups, 3500 series pickups cost 40% more than 2500 series pickups, etc. Since buyers of towed RV's have to include the TT cost into system price, this creates an opportunity for a somewhat higher-priced RV model just below the RV weight class break point where the next size TT is required.

Keystone should give a bonus to the marketing guys responsible for the Cougar & Montana High Country models. And yell a fair amount at the legal eagles who let marketing mention TT capacity at all.

CamillaMichael · 07-07-2010, 02:54 AM

Well, my SRW truck still pulls fine, is stable, and within all (I have weighed it a couple of times, most recently with a full load for travel) weight limits, including GCWR. Now, having said that, could I load up our truck and fifth wheel to exceed weight limits for either the truck, the rig, or both? Sure I could...I could load every tool known to man in either the truck or fifth wheel storage; or the wife could load enough food to feed a small country. In both cases, this seems to be our natural tendancy, but we resist these impulses and load what we need. So, we are fine...if someone else needs more towing capacity, that's fine too. As adults we all have to make our own choices...here's to good ones.

mlh · 07-07-2010, 09:53 AM

Attorneys
Is there anyway we can be honest on a subject like this, without putting ourselves at risk. Could we have two profiles, the second one and not identify ourself.
lynwood

CamillaMichael · 07-09-2010, 07:49 AM

Lynwood, I have been looking for a response to your post...unless you have received a private message, my guess would be our attorneys are reluctant to provide any response which might put them at legal risk. Based on what they have already provided, it would seem to be in our best interest to be careful about what we share with one another in any forum.

blarkman · 07-09-2010, 08:39 AM

The few years I have been on this site and some others I always wondered if people should be making the statements as to how fast they drive, how much they weight or what they have added or twoing behind their rigs. My point, ST tires says 65mph max, weights on truck, how big a rig are you really towing and hearing about Montana having scales at the rallys,or what has been added to rv and how do you stop it!! Just my thoughts

richfaa · 07-09-2010, 11:03 AM

As long as you are within all legal requirements or Manufacturers specs there would be nothing to worry about. The service center does have scales and they do weigh your rig when it is in for service and discuss the results with you. What they do with those numbers is anyones guess.

mlh · 07-09-2010, 03:08 PM

Michael
Thats what it looks like. I would like to THANK them for their help.
Lynwood

Tom_Holsinger · 07-10-2010, 07:17 AM

The immediate problem Lawman referred to was posters admitting awareness that their tow vehicle seemed not to have the capacity to safely tow their RV. If they are ever involved in an accident with their RV, the other side's lawyers would likely discover this and crucify them with it, unless they have since replaced their tow vehicle with one that has suiable capacity. The attorneys for the other side will use such admissions as an opportunity to demand punitive damages, and that would create a terrifying risk that the poster's insurance carrier would defend the case under a reservation of rights that they might deny coverage.

My point, that it was unwise in general for posters to list their tow vehicles in their signatures, was based the fact that people forget about the need not to express on-line qualms about the safety of their rigs. I'm not saying that people can safely list their tow vehicles in their signatures if they avoid posting on-line worries about its capacity, because there is a real good chance that they'll eventually forget that it is legally dangerous to express those concerns on-line.

And this is a shame, because it is forums like these which teach people about safety problems with their rigs. The legal liability plague poisons free speech.

indy roadrunner · 07-10-2010, 09:04 AM

I work for a coast to coast trucking company in the fleet mainentance department and somewhat aware of some big truck accident aftermaths. When there is an accident on the interstate the DOT big concern is to clean it up and open the roads for traffic. Often times the cargo is scooped up and put in dump trucks, loaded onto another semi's and sent on it's way to the customer or the trucking company's salvage. The actual weight of the unit is not verifiable and only thing admissible is the manifest which may or may not be right. Most generally the law suits are involved with equipment malfunction or driver error. We have to retain our equipment involved in accidents until release by the Legal team and DOT.
I have seen a RV involved in an accident that was busted all to pieces. It had been hit by one of our trucks. They loaded it up on two different flat beds and the other stuff scattered all over the road was scooped up by a bob cat and placed in a dump truck. There is no way of actual proof of weights of that RV or what it had in it. Purely speculation.
I would think that most legal begals would go after driver or equipment failure verses overweight by Xxxx pounds. JMO

richfaa · 07-10-2010, 10:00 AM

I think what they were trying to point out is that by posting your TV on this or other forums that you may be admitting that you are towing over the manufacturers ratings and spec's and that is not a smart thing to do. We were given pretty much the same speech by a friend and attorney a long time ago. He said.. Rich..If I have to defend you in court do not make it harder that it will already be.

TLightning · 07-10-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

I think what they were trying to point out is that by posting your TV on this or other forums that you may be admitting that you are towing over the manufacturers ratings and spec's and that is not a smart thing to do. We were given pretty much the same speech by a friend and attorney a long time ago. He said.. Rich..If I have to defend you in court do not make it harder that it will already be.

Same here.

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