Gooseneck vs 5th wheel - Montana Owners Club

Montana_5008 · 11-30-2005, 02:13 PM

I have a gooseneck ( ball ) already installed in my truck to pull equipment trailers. I have been thinking about having the 5th wheel hook-up changed to a gooseneck on my trailer. Montana dealers say the change can be made and do furnish the gooseneck. Does anyone see a problem going w/ to a gooseneck ,other than being a little harder to hook-up since you can't see the ball. I think its just as good a hook-up as the 5th wheel. Comments please. Thanks Rascal

Glenn and Lorraine · 11-30-2005, 02:17 PM

Welcome Rascal to the MOC Family

I can't help you but there were 2 other threads on this subject...

Hitch discussion #1

Hitch Discussion #2

Hope this helps

Trailer Trash 2 · 11-30-2005, 02:24 PM

I dont see anything wrong with the goose neck, a good friend of mine has a big Prowler 5er with a goose neck he loves it, him being in construction he needs the bed of his truck for material and taking the regular table and mounts out is a hassel. I would have the head installed at the factory, and not a aftermarket bolt on head, but if I could do it I would have it on my truck and trailer. the only down side is backing up under that and hitting that 2 3/4' Ball or what ever size it is.

TT@

Dave e Victoria · 11-30-2005, 02:41 PM

In theory, a gooseneck hitch is superior in towing qualities as the hich point is closer to the drive axle on the tow vehicle. HOWEVER, the problem is that the connection to a fifth wheel trailer to accomodate the gooseneck is a long arm that represents a lever arm on the trailer frame. For instance, if this arm is say 40 inches versus the twenty inches of the normal fifth wheel arm, then the fore aft strain trying to torque or buckle the trailer frame is twice as large. (The numbers here are just examples. You need to measure the actual conditions you encounter). And that, as they say is, the rest of the story. As Don said, I'd make sure the factory design could accomodate the change especially with the various reports we have had about structural problems in the front of some of these trailers.
Dave

Montana_5008 · 11-30-2005, 02:55 PM

Thanks for the reply.Has been helpful. Montana dealer stated that the conversion can be made w/ a gooseneck from Montana.I will get back w/you once I get a response from Keystone Montana.Thanks again

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Glenn and Lorraine

Welcome Rascal to the MOC Family

I can't help you but there were 2 other threads on this subject...

Hitch Discussion #1

Hitch Discussion #2

Hope this helps

MIMF2 · 12-02-2005, 04:19 AM

Rascal and everyone else on this forum,

This is a subject that makes me do a slow burn! At the risk of sounding like I am scolding you folks, I am! Lippert Components does not recommend nor do we endorse the installation of a goose-neck adaptor!

We get several calls every week where someone has installed one on their 5th wheel and now has a busted upper deck. From all kinds of manufacturers. WE WILL NOT WARRANTY THE REPAIR!!! It is a very expensive deal to come out of your pocket! You will pay a couple grand to repair the unit for materials, labor and travel time just because you may have wanted to save a thousand to put the proper 5th wheel in your truck.

Besides, something to think about. I read and hear a lot of discussion about upper deck flex.
Why would you want to subject it to more? Even if you were lucky enough for it to stay together for as long as you own the coach. You might not be as lucky on your next unit you buy.

My oppinion is, dealers will sell anything to you that you want to buy. They don't take into account the warranty of the new $60,000 (or more) coach you just bought.

Case closed!

Dave e Victoria · 12-02-2005, 05:02 AM

Thanks MIMF2. It is really good to get this case closed. The physics of the problem are fairly obvious as are the motivations of the dealers.
Dave

ols1932 · 12-02-2005, 05:35 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by MIMF2

Rascal and everyone else on this forum,

This is a subject that makes me do a slow burn! At the risk of sounding like I am scolding you folks, I am! Lippert Components does not recommend nor do we endorse the installation of a goose-neck adaptor!

We get several calls every week where someone has installed one on their 5th wheel and now has a busted upper deck. From all kinds of manufacturers. WE WILL NOT WARRANTY THE REPAIR!!! It is a very expensive deal to come out of your pocket! You will pay a couple grand to repair the unit for materials, labor and travel time just because you may have wanted to save a thousand to put the proper 5th wheel in your truck.

Besides, something to think about. I read and hear a lot of discussion about upper deck flex.
Why would you want to subject it to more? Even if you were lucky enough for it to stay together for as long as you own the coach. You might not be as lucky on your next unit you buy.

My oppinion is, dealers will sell anything to you that you want to buy. They don't take into account the warranty of the new $60,000 (or more) coach you just bought.

Case closed!

Well put!

Wordsmith · 12-02-2005, 07:58 AM

MIMF2, When I purchased our 2003 Montana from the previous owner, he thought I was crazy because I wanted to have the gooseneck adaptor he used removed so I could go with a traditional fifth wheel hitch, but I checked around and most people on other forums as well as here advised against it. Nice to hear from the source that I was correct in making the change. I just hope in the few trips his family went on before he and his wife realized that the 5er was not going to do the job they wanted and then bought a Class A did not do any damage.

rlwhit · 12-03-2005, 01:27 AM

Rascal, If you have a turn over ball hitch in your bed of the truck there is a 5th wheel hitch called a companion hitch made by B&W. It is easy to put in place and remove. Check it out.

Montana_5008 · 12-04-2005, 12:27 PM

Everyone on this page. I did get info back from Keystone and they DO NOT recommend the gooseneck hook-up.I appreciate everyones input and may see you'all on the road ,somewhere ,sometime. I will be getting the 5th wheel hook-up installed in the big Ford.Rascal

Steve and Brenda · 10-11-2006, 07:39 AM

Y'all saved the day!!! I'm going to pick up our new 3475RL this weekend and ordered it with a gooseneck adapter because I thought it'd be easier to hitch, save my truckbed, etc. I, too, called Keystone and they said no to a gooseneck and gave me the number for Lippert Components, the guys who build the slides, frame and pin boxes for the Montanas. Mike is an engineer there and he stated that the torque will break the frame so one day I'll be leaving a stoplight and as I pull away from the light the trailer will stay at the light and all I'll be pulling is a gooseneck!!!

Problem is I already installed a B&W hide-a-ball hitch in my new Duramax assuming there'd be a gooseneck attached to it someday. Well, I found out that B&W also make the Companion BW3000 which mounts into my existing hide-a-ball setup so for no additional cost I'll be pulling as specified by the manufacturer. Too bad my dealer never warned me about the problems using a gooseneck, Keystone informed me that they should have.

mfoss · 10-12-2006, 05:05 AM

We have a gooseneck hitch too. Our dealer said that it was "no problem". When we had another guy install our W/D he warned us of the potential problem with them and said it would negate our warranty. Back to the dealer who said, "Don't worry about it." Well, now I'm plenty worried------pulling away from a stop light with only the hitch!!!!! I think it's something we better change before we leave for the winter---husband is not very concerned!! Anyway, in the above post where Steve says, "B&W also make the Companion BW3000 which mounts into my existing hide-aball setup so for no additional cost I'll be pulling as specified......." At no additional cost? I googled the B&W 3000 and it looks like they sell for $700 to $800. Am I missing something here?

LonnieB · 10-12-2006, 05:57 AM

mfoss, I was wondering the same thing about there being no additional cost. When you have a component system, additional components cost extra. Maybe Steve's hitch had both components when he bought it.
As far as the gooseneck hitch goes, I'll relate my experience. I wanted the gooseneck for the same reason most folks do, I already had a gooseneck ball, as most of our equipment and stock trailers are goosenecks. The dealer where I bought the Montana was completely against the idea, even refused to do it, unless I signed a waiver releasing him, Keystone, and Lippert from any liability. He told me about the frame flex problem some people had, and after thinking about it awhile, I could see how the length of the gooseneck hitch could compound the problem by changing the fulcrum point, and adding more leverage to the pin box.
As someone on here has already stated, you may pull it thousands of miles and never have a problem. Then again, you may be one of the unlucky ones. True, the hitch is kind of a pain to put in and take out if your changing trailers very often, but I would rather have the pain than the broken Montana.

Steve and Brenda · 10-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by mfoss

Anyway, in the above post where Steve says, "B&W also make the Companion BW3000 which mounts into my existing hide-aball setup so for no additional cost I'll be pulling as specified......." At no additional cost? I googled the B&W 3000 and it looks like they sell for $700 to $800. Am I missing something here?

Hi guys, part of the deal for the Montana I'm picking up this weekend included a $600 gooseneck so when I told the dealership I wanted to trade the gooseneck for the Companion BW3000 there was no cost difference for me. I already have the B&W hide-a-ball. Sorry for the confusion.

LonnieB · 10-12-2006, 04:15 PM

Hey Steve, I understand now, thanks for the clarification.

panhandlevern · 10-27-2006, 10:50 AM

To me it seems that Lippert is more interested in saying that they did not build a sturdy frame for our trailers, I've pulled a lot of trailers with a goose neckm and yes there might be a little extra tress on the frame, but why haven't they planned on that type of hook-up to begin with. I don't think it would take a lot of extra effort on their part ot build something that all of us could use , rather than screamin that the frame will fall apart. Lot's of sour grapes from Lippert in my view.

02 F250 PSD 7.3 4x4
00 3280RL
By the way I use a B&W ball with a Companion hitch

Mrs. CountryGuy · 10-27-2006, 11:36 AM

panhandlevern

First, Welcome to the MOC!!

Second, I believe this has been discussed here and our resident Lippert expert, MIMF, has posted that they build the frames to the specifications laid out by Keystone.

On re-reading parts of this thread, I see that one of MIMF's responses is already included.

[JFYI: MIMF works at Lippert.]

Reading the archives and trying our search function (which can be a bit touchy to spit out results, be sure to open the time frame and the type of search to get more hits) will result in some good reading for ya.

Also, if you study (in person really makes it easy and quite obvious), each year since our 2004 was built, they have changed the way the bedroom slide sits in the frame, and the distance from the bulkhead to the pin. I personally did a lot of looking at the Rally in Goshen in September and it was amazing how they have changed the dynamics and the stress in that overhang area. From one early 3400 floor plan to the current 3400 floor plan, we noted a difference of about 18 inches, so, that is the pin is 18 inches closer to the bulk head (front storage locker) on the new 3400 vs the early 3400's built. I would humbly suggest that they did this because they felt that the stresses on that over hang area were more than they should be, and fixed it by moving things around. Now, I am no engineer, but, my logic skills tell me this is so, a lot of other non-engineer, but owner types agreed with me. Maybe they were just being nice!

Hey, I have been wrong a LOT of times before, and could be about this as well.

But, again, I believe it to be that Lippert builds to Keystone's specifications. Let the heat begin!