Big Solar Dreams

[BeagleMan]

ey guys! First off, I am just loving this rig of mine. 2021 Montana 3763BP First 5th wheel ever owned and we are FT in it too. Stationary for the moment in a great campground with awesome people and support staff. As I learn more and more about this rig, I get so excited and I always wonder how much more fun I can add to it before getting on the road in mid Spring of 2021.

One thing I have thought of, is Solar. More apt would be High Tech Solar. I have read some threads in here and others and their setups and there are some awesome jobs being done out there. So, that being said, I have dreamed up something big. Like BIG. More or less copying off others and see how I can fit certain aspects of others and incorporate it on my rig. Kind of like, taking the best thing off one setup here, one setup there and see if it can be beneficial to my rig.

First off, the reasons...Boondocking sounds like fun if it is done right. I know some ins and outs of it, and it is appealing to me. Another reason is, is preparedness. The way the country is going, knowing which states to avoid, being in a campground and the power goes out for who knows how long? I just wanting to be prepared. And wanting a setup that I can use whatever, whenever and however I need or want. I have research to do on the energy and power levels of everything we run and use and set up the solar that way. To some, it may be overkill, but this is my Home now, this is how I want to live. Free.

So, here goes. I have a thought process that tells me that I need my ducks in a row now. I need to have the plan in my head before implementing so I can deduce this from that as I go along. So, my first process is, batteries. I know I will want BattleBorns, 100Ah and I know I will need at least 12 to 15 of them. Told you I was going big.....
What I want to know is...In the Battleborns, there are 100AH LiFePO4 12v DC batteries at the $960 range and there is the GC2 100AH batteries in 12v DC at $1060 Question: What are the differences sans the cost? Are they that way for spacing issues?
And that is another area i am looking into. Spacing and how this affect or go into my rig? If any of you are familiar with my rig and floorplan, I want to listen to you. Where would be the best place to align this type of battery spread? Obviously, in the compartment, but where? How to balance the weight of it all? Does this cut into my Carry Capacity? Or is that something the Installers would know? What say you?

Here is a list of possible products I see myself wanting to use....Remember, I realize the cost in this, I am not worried about that. This is a long term investment and I have thought it out, I have convened with others outside the forum on this project. It is what it is.

12-15 Battleborn Batteries- 100Ah 12v LiFePO4 DC. Normal or GC2?

9 REC Solar N PEAK Series Solar panels, set in 3 strings of 3. Question: Which to go with? 325 watt or 330 watt at a $2 diff in price? Do I need to go bigger in wattage? I'm looking to create anywhere from 15k to 17K watts.

2 - Victron Charge Controllers 250/100
2 - Victron Multi-Plus Inverters 24/3000/70
1 - Victron Autotransformer 120/240/32
1 - Victron Color Control GX monitor
1 - Victron BMV-712 Battery Monitor
1 - Atkinson's Electronics GSCM-Mini
1 - Victron-Orion 24-12 DC - DC Converter
finally, a Cummins Onan 5500W EVAP Gas Gen Set with vent. In case of emergencies and to charge on multiple cloudy days.
And a crap load of wires and connectors and.......

Told you that I dream big. But, I have 2 years to get this done. I may even buy some of it a little at a time. Would like your thoughts.
Thank you!

AC.

[Drifty1]

Silly question, where you going to put all that?

[PNW Fireguy]

Larry I was just thinking the same thing. Interestingly enough I am looking at most of the same parts sitting in my living area waiting to be installed. I went with dual 5kva 24v Quattto's however. You may be hard pressed to fit those REC panels on your roof in the density you mentioned. Are you planning to create a two tier array where one tier can slide out from it's stowed position on top of the bottom tier? With that many BB's without a balancer of some type you may be disappointed with the resultant behavior. In addition you should look at adding the current limiting device BB sells as their propietary BMS will arbitrarily trip the output relays on high current discharge at a level BB selects which is not that high and is not something the end user can modify. I would harder at other LiFePO4 batteries that will not limit your discharge to that extent. I assume you are wanting to use those available amp hours. Victron Smart Lithium would integrate nicely with your existing Victron components. You would only need to add a Victron VE.bus bms. Either way you would be welcome to be my boondocking neighbor anytime as long as you don't run that Onan.


I would highly recommend you post this in the FB RV DIY Solar group. This place is better geared toward the topice and not just a side show.

[kowbra]

Ok, wow that is big! And lots of questions!

So, I don't know that I can answer all your questions, but let's start with a few basics.

You asked "does this cut into my carry capacity?" Answer, EVERYTHING cuts into your carry capacity! And, that is one of my concerns when I look at your list. You could be adding 1000 lbs or more. How much is your carrying capacity now? Do you want to use 1/3 to 1/2 of that just for this? What other things will you need to remove to not be overweight?

Next, you are going big on solar AND adding a heavy built in generator. Certainly, it's your money and your choice, but these are largely redundant systems. With the amount of panels and batteries you are looking at, that generator may never get used. If I can make a suggestion; look at something like a DC-DC charger wired into your truck alternator. With that, your truck alternator can feed 60 amps or more of charge, much like that built in Onan. This will save you about 350lbs and at a fraction of the price.

Next; when deciding on panels, find out the measurements, then think about how to lay them out on the roof. When you get to the 300 watt panels, most won't fit where there is already something on the roof. For example, they won't fit on either side of the AC units. Or, if there is even a small vent or antenna, that may mean only 1 panel can fit in that space not 2. You will likely be challenged to get 9 large panels up there, and may need to look at a mix of some of the large ones and a few of the 150 watt size.

One area where I'm confused; you indicate you want to do 9 panels of about 330 watts each or about 3 kw of panels. But then you say you want 15 to 17 kw total. How are you planning to get the total wattage you need? (even with the 5.5kw gen you are only half of that)

And, maybe the biggest question of all is; why do you think you need such a big solar system? Why 15-17kw of solar? Why 1000 to 1200ah of batteries? (to be clear, I'm not at all saying this is wrong, but I am trying to understand what your goals are)

One other thought from our experience; in our last rig we had a total of 300 watts of solar and the equivalent battery capacity of 1 of the battleborns. We could boondock for a week, with the occasional battery top up from a portable generator if it was cloudy. But it was harder to manage the water. By the end of a week, with only a couple of quick showers each and judicious water usage everywhere else, we had to hookup to empty the waste and take on new water. Even with that small system, power management was actually easier than water management.

So, please do share your goals for this system. That will be helpful for you, and I think it puts everyone else in a better position to look at your design and make comments.

Brad

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by Drifty1

Silly question, where you going to put all that?

That's why I came here. To ask folks what they think. A lot of you guys are way more knowledgeable about the Montanas than I could ever hope to know.

I am hoping to put it here on a aluminum frame and all the chargers, controllers, and what not onto the wall ( or behind it) and run it through there.

[BeagleMan]

[BeagleMan]

This is my inspiration. If it works.

https://youtu.be/r7scjweh1R8

[BeagleMan]

Like I said, it is a dream of mine to have a set up like this, but I am thinking that it might not get this big. Soooo, what would be the best way? Would I be better off on 10 BBs? Pare down on some of my list? Would I be better off putting batteries in the front where my 4 GC2s are now?

On the Onan, that's a gimme. I am getting one no matter what. I have to have a back up to the back up. That's just me.

By the way, you guys are really smart. I had to read those posts a couple of times to get them wrapped around my brain pan. Love it!! I belong to a Solar Forum and you guys talk like them.

I am not learned enough on the watts gained, its just that Steven, guy in video is getting them and he can stay out 3-6 weeks at a time, mostly for his job.

The other inspiration, on a cheaper, lower level, is this guy. You don't have to watch the whole thing, solar is at the beginning....but I do like hos solutions on other areas, especially the dumping of tanks.

https://youtu.be/8Qn7z697GxU

My rig is 41 foot. I should be able to do something close to either one of these.

[BeagleMan]

Thanks so far. This stuff baffles me and excites me at the same time.

AC

[DadsHemi]

How much does all this stuff weigh

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by DadsHemi

How much does all this stuff weigh

300-450 pounds just for the batteries
and 300 for the generator

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Like I said, it is a dream of mine to have a set up like this, but I am thinking that it might not get this big. Soooo, what would be the best way? Would I be better off on 10 BBs? Pare down on some of my list? Would I be better off putting batteries in the front where my 4 GC2s are now?

On the Onan, that's a gimme. I am getting one no matter what. I have to have a back up to the back up. That's just me.

By the way, you guys are really smart. I had to read those posts a couple of times to get them wrapped around my brain pan. Love it!! I belong to a Solar Forum and you guys talk like them.

I am not learned enough on the watts gained, its just that Steven, guy in video is getting them and he can stay out 3-6 weeks at a time, mostly for his job.

The other inspiration, on a cheaper, lower level, is this guy. You don't have to watch the whole thing, solar is at the beginning....but I do like hos solutions on other areas, especially the dumping of tanks.

https://youtu.be/8Qn7z697GxU

My rig is 41 foot. I should be able to do something close to either one of these.

You do have some big dreams @BeagleMan ! That's great!
I was thinking of the video that you shared here - I had seen that one also and am considering some of his ideas for water and waste management.

So I think I'm getting a different impression now. From your first post, I was thinking that you wanted to have a few days of power backup, or a quick getaway. And my first thought was that your design was way overkill.
But if your idea is more like the Steven Lewis video and you plan to be off grid for weeks at a time, then your ideas make a lot more sense.

For your question on number of batteries, here's a couple of considerations:
-by having the Onan also, you will be safe starting smaller and building up as you determine what your needs are. Less battery means more generator, but also less overall weight.
-perhaps you could do an energy audit? If you installed the Victron BMV-712 monitor and shunt to start with, it could give you that audit information. From there you could start making better decisions that may help to decide the right size system for you.

We decided to get our new Montana with the Super Solar Flex option. It is a system that is about half the capacity you are thinking of. We are stuck in winter right now so haven't used the system, so I can't comment on how well it may work. We may look at upgrading it a bit after we've used it.
Have you seen info on the Super Solar Flex system?
- this video is from Matt Wolkins of Futuresales and is the guru who designed the system for Montana. I like this one as he explains the pieces and why they chose them. It may give you some ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9RD4qmud0s

Hope that helps!
Brad

[DutchmenSport]

Wow! At $1060 a battery, 12 batteries = $12,720 and 15 batteries = $15,900.

At 29 pounds per battery, 12 batteries = 348 pounds and 15 batteries = 435 pounds.

Add the cost and weight of the solar panels, all the electrical parts needed to make this work, and I can see the cost approaching $20,000 easily.

The size of the battery is 12.75 inches x 8.765 x 9 inches.

That is square foot foot print of 111.75 inches which equals about 3/4 of a square foot.

Multiply 3/4 of a square foot by 12 and it equals approximately 9 square feet.
15 would be 11.25 square feet needed just for the batteries.

I admire your dream, but I hope you have a really fat billfold with lots of cash or really good credit.

And, where is the wife going to pack her tooth paste

[WeBeFulltime]

Either slooooow down and have a long look at what you are planning OR go for it as long as you never plan to move the rig or resell it. You won't get a penny of this money back.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by DadsHemi

How much does all this stuff weigh

Probably A LOT. I will deal with the weight issue once I find the setup that works best for me.

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSport

Wow! At $1060 a battery, 12 batteries = $12,720 and 15 batteries = $15,900.

At 29 pounds per battery, 12 batteries = 348 pounds and 15 batteries = 435 pounds.

Add the cost and weight of the solar panels, all the electrical parts needed to make this work, and I can see the cost approaching $20,000 easily.

The size of the battery is 12.75 inches x 8.765 x 9 inches.

That is square foot foot print of 111.75 inches which equals about 3/4 of a square foot.

Multiply 3/4 of a square foot by 12 and it equals approximately 9 square feet.
15 would be 11.25 square feet needed just for the batteries.

I admire your dream, but I hope you have a really fat billfold with lots of cash or really good credit.

And, where is the wife going to pack her tooth paste

Well, I have been big my whole life. 6'5" 275. Was 230 in HS and 245 in college. I dream big and I do big. When I was tourney fishing, most gis had 20ft boats, nope I had to have a 22ftr.

I am copying your formula you provided and using it for reference points and clarity. Hope you do not mind.

[DadsHemi]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

Well, I have been big my whole life. 6'5" 275. Was 230 in HS and 245 in college. I dream big and I do big. When I was tourney fishing, most gis had 20ft boats, nope I had to have a 22ftr.

I am copying your formula you provided and using it for reference points and clarity. Hope you do not mind.

What’s the carry capacity of your model Montana ? what’s your GVWR on your Montana ? It adds up quick when you start loading stuff in it.

I’m sure your thinking about the whole picture to make sure you keep it safe and with in the weight limits of your Montana.

Roll Tide

[DutchmenSport]

Originally Posted by BeagleMan

... Hope you do not mind.

Absolutely don't mind. Anything to help or help anyone become fully aware of what they are getting ready to do.

Please, when you finally arrive at all the details, keep posting your progress, take lots of photos and keep sharing here. Projects like this are a great interest on these forums for about everyone. It also give the rest of us ideas and learn from other's successes and failures.

Good luck!

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by DadsHemi

What’s the carry capacity of your model Montana ? what’s your GVWR on your Montana ? It adds up quick when you start loading stuff in it.

I’m sure your thinking about the whole picture to make sure you keep it safe and with in the weight limits of your Montana.

Roll Tide

Right, it does. That's why I am asking these questions and I do want to be constantly safe. You are correct. I am taking in all considerations of the whole picture. Learning more about the SSF is helping.

I am around 16,920 total GCWR. 2980 on the hitch. Do not know what the truck weight will be, around 8250?, for a more GCVWR. We will know in a few month to be more exact.

You are here in Florence? How cool! I am at Heritage Acres if you want to drop by or buy you a cold one somewhere in town.

And yes.....ROLL TIDE!!

AC

[BeagleMan]

Originally Posted by DutchmenSport

Absolutely don't mind. Anything to help or help anyone become fully aware of what they are getting ready to do.

Please, when you finally arrive at all the details, keep posting your progress, take lots of photos and keep sharing here. Projects like this are a great interest on these forums for about everyone. It also give the rest of us ideas and learn from other's successes and failures.

Good luck!

I sure will, dude. Its probably a few months away to getting started but I will refer back to this thread when it does. I need to focus on the truck right now, like, getting one, then I will be tackling this with a fervor once started. I just like having a plan, its the Hannibal Smith in me, well before anything gets started. Thanks for your support in this and your ideas. you are good people.

AC