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05-29-2015, 04:30 AM
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#1
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northwest Tennessee
Posts: 450
M.O.C. #10884
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Wheel coming off!?
Dealer repacked the wheel bearings yesterday and said the cotter pin on one wheel was "gone". The hub had worked loose and would not have gone another 100 miles meaning the tire would have gone with the hub. I have never heard of this happening. They said the only way to check is to jack the wheel up and see if it moves side to side. I think if I go to that much trouble will take wheel and dust cover off and look for the cotter pin. They also said grease was then allowed onto the brakes and of course extra charges to repair. This dealer has repacked and "inspected" the running gear each year since purchase. Do you normally jack each wheel before trips and do this type inspection?
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2017 Montana 3611
2012 Chevy 2500
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05-29-2015, 04:51 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: McKinney
Posts: 7,155
M.O.C. #6433
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I jack each wheel each spring to check the brakes. But never thought about checking to see if there was play in the wheel. But in spinning the wheel to check the brakes I have never noticed any looseness or play.
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Bill & Patricia
Riley, our Golden
2007 3075RL (recently sold, currently without)
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05-29-2015, 05:53 AM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salem
Posts: 7,547
M.O.C. #2283
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The cotter pin wasn't gone. They never put it in the last time they checked the wheel. Where do they think it went. BS.
Lynwood
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05-29-2015, 05:53 AM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pensacola (mail forward service)
Posts: 3,198
M.O.C. #13740
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Had it happen in the 60's on a car. I check play when I raise the unit to slowly spin wheel to grease bearings. Once a year... John
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2012 F350 6.7 L dually, 2013 3800RE with 6 pt leveling, Sumitomo 17.5" load range h tires, Samsung 18 cu ft residential fridge, 8k Morryde I.S. with disc brakes. Full timing since 2012.
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05-29-2015, 06:00 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Box Elder
Posts: 4,690
M.O.C. #12947
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If you have the Nev-R-Lube axles, you will not have a cotter pin. The grease passage from the end of the axle goes through the center of the axle, so the method used to retain the bearing nut is a special retainer that keys to the flat on the end of the shaft and clips around the outside of the nut. If yours is the style using cotter pins, maybe the grease person forgot to install a cotter pin when you last had it serviced. We lost an outer bearing several months ago, and it is costly. I had to replace the drum/hub assembly, brake/backing plate assembly, and of course the bearings, washer, nut, and retainer clip. All this damage was a couple months after having serviced the bearings by hand packing and doing the brake inspection myself. I believe this damage was the result of extremely bad roads we encountered going to south Texas.
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Bob & Becky
2012 3402RL
2012 Chevy 2500HD D/A CC 4WD
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05-29-2015, 08:06 AM
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#6
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northwest Tennessee
Posts: 450
M.O.C. #10884
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I may have the incorrect name for the part. Cotter pin is what I am familiar with on my small single axle utility trailer. I repack the bearings on it but don't mess with the Montana. The bill lists one elec. brk. 12" x 2" RH Dexter 6K/PR for $85.99; two E-Z lube spindle nut and washers; set of 6 race for 14125A; four grease seals; and (set) of four race and bearings. Labor to replace door side rear brake cluster and hub bearings. Then the "regular' charge for inspection of brake mechanisms, lubing suspension and bearing pack. The word fastener was used when they tried to have it covered under the extended warranty which of course didn't happen. They showed me the spindle and a nut that goes over the spindle that was allowed to loosen without the "fastener". I am not a 'mechanic' but this is serious and attempting to determine what would have caused the wheel to come off. Yes, should have asked more questions but this site usually has better info and advice. My mind was full of a vision of the tire passing me on the interstate!!!
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2017 Montana 3611
2012 Chevy 2500
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05-29-2015, 10:43 AM
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#7
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Site Team
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Omaha
Posts: 6,750
M.O.C. #7560
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It truly sounds to me that whoever you had do your brakes or whatever you had done prior to this on that wheel and/or axle-- they did not follow correct procedure and tighten the nut correctly. It's probably to late now but I would have asked the service tech or service writer to show you the brake pads and etc that got grease on them. To get grease on then they had to overload the bearing/s and blow a seal which is their responsibility, especially if it was the same company that did the job last time. To blow a seal is not that hard especially if an air powered grease gun is used. It can blow it very easily if the operator does not watch what they are doing. One can even blow that seal if you do it yourself using a hand grease gun if you pump to much grease into it. If the bearings are packed correctly and installed, two or three pumps of a grease gun should be sufficient.
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05-29-2015, 11:57 AM
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#8
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northwest Tennessee
Posts: 450
M.O.C. #10884
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This dealer serviced the rig/axles (annually)since it was purchased from them in 2011 and the last ones to touch the axles on it. I have not greased it at all. What would have caused the wheel to come off? Improper servicing/greasing the bearings and blowing the seal? Surely, it takes a lot to loose a wheel! Was this a smoke screen to cover their past mistake? If this is true it worked? I have been researching Dexter axles and still not sure want to tackle this project myself. But not sure where to take it for service. The dealership has had about two turnovers in the service department manager position in the last two years. The service person doing the work was new to me.
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2017 Montana 3611
2012 Chevy 2500
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05-29-2015, 12:14 PM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arroyo Grande
Posts: 504
M.O.C. #6460
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Dave, My vote is smoke screen. I was really thinking about taking mine to a trailer sales/repair business close to me to have my wheel bearings repacked. Now, It looks like next week, I will be greasy. At least I will know what the bearings looks like and that the nut retainer will be in place. Sorry about the expense. Bill
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06-01-2015, 10:21 AM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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The dealer may have just used "cotter pin" loosely in conversation. Here is what's probably on your spindle to hold the nut on.
http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Retain.../dp/B009LYTTDK
It has a flat that indexes on the flat on your spindle ... the legs clip around the 6 points of the spindle nut. I don't jack my fiver up before each trip ... I do check brakes and bearings once a year. Like you said, it would be pretty easy to pop off the dust cover if you really wanted to know what's behind it.
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06-02-2015, 03:15 AM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northwest Tennessee
Posts: 450
M.O.C. #10884
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Diesel guy you are correct on it being the spindle nut retainer "washer". I researched the E-Z lube Dexter axle on the Dexter website and other RV forums. The Dexter site is very informative and well done. The tech said the original equipment washer was not that good and they replaced with a "better" one. Apparently, they didn't replace the OE the last two times the bearings were serviced. The tech told me the "fastener" was gone, not there, was missing. That is what still has me wondering. I called the dealer back asking what happened to the washer and was told by service department that it must have loosened allowing the spindle nut to move. I asked where did it go? They just repeated the first answer given. By the time I was told about the issue during the visit the tech was working on another tire on the camper and the problem one was back on the trailer. It boils down to what who said when and what they meant. Had I been more educated on the axles and asked more questions, might have been able to determine what happened to the washer. Yes, you can look to see if the washer is in place against the spindle nut. Personally, would rather have a cotter pin on the spindle since I do not grease between repacking because of the fears of too much grease and or pressure causing a seal to fail. Not sure that is the correct approach. Thanks for your responses. My "RV education" continues at a slow pace!
__________________
2017 Montana 3611
2012 Chevy 2500
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06-02-2015, 04:20 AM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Navarre
Posts: 1,527
M.O.C. #9765
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Witnessed the aftermath of two wheels departing fifth wheels. One never found as it went into vallecito lake. Both instances the owner suspected how and why it happened. Improper installation was suspected in both cases, one by son-in-law, other by owner.
Mike
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06-02-2015, 05:00 AM
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#13
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Haysville
Posts: 4,261
M.O.C. #3085
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Actually, I think the retainer now used on spindle nuts instead of a cotter pin is equally dependable. Just like lining up the hole in the spindle with the grooves in the castellated nut for the cotter pin... getting the spindle nut in the right orientation for the retainer to snap over the crowns of the nut and be on the flat on the spindle requires a best fit approach. You always back off the spindle nut just abit if things don't line up correctly ... never tighten. Once you have the flats indexed, the retainer will usually snap over all 4 crowns on the nut ... if not, slightly loosen the nut to get the retainer to completely snap into place. I'd guess the last time you had your bearings repacked, the tech didn't get the retainer snapped on all the way and it simply popped off later on allowing the nut to slowly back off. However; It would have still been stuck in the grease in the dust cap. Maybe like proposed earlier ... it was never installed?? You are calling it a washer ... I'm calling it a retainer ... same thing. It's a steel washer like item with feet that snap over the crowns of the spindle nut.
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