3400RL Weigh In

[bsmeaton]

Phil,

That's good that you had it checked. Sounds like a much heavier pin weight than expected. Ours was only 2,540, but I suspect that with you folks being full timers, you have a lot of stuff packed in the front bedroom that we don't carry.

[exav8tr]

Thanks for all the comments and concerns. To reiterate, they did weigh the truck seperately, each wheel location, then they weighed the trailerweights on the wheels, then they weighed the truck wheels again WITH the trailer hooked up, hence the correct pin weight. My trailer came from factory with a 1517 ccc. I then added my stuff, then a 2nd ac, sat dish, slide toppers fantastic fan, when I got to the US at CW in Burlington WA.

At the conference I just attended, the weight folks gave some interesting facts. Of all the RV's the RVSEF had weighed 60% were overweight in at least one area. 52% exceeded GCWR, 41% exceeded GVWR, 20% exceeded GAWR and 15% exceeded their tire ratings. The AVERAGE that fulltimers put in their RV's was 2500-4000lbs. A vacationer- 1000-1500 lbs and a snowbirder 1500-2500. If my weight figures are correct, and I believe they are, I have added 2617 lbs of equip and stuff since buying.

As those of you with a 2006 3400RL with 6,000 lb axles know, our RV's did not come with much CCC to begin with hence my question about adding the 7,000 lb axles and boosting the GVWR up by 2,000 lbe as they did later with the 3400.

I can tell you this, without a doubt, I am overweight by the numbers. Am I safe? I will slow my speeds down a bit and check all things related to suspension and brakes more often. I feel by doing this I will be as safe as I can be. In the meantime I will explore the axle thing with Keystone and Lippert. AND look for a bigger truck.

I must admit, although somewhat reluctantly, but admit all the same, that I had my head in the sand when it came to this topic by thinking I had a big enough truck. I must also admit that on the day of the trailer weighing I had 25 more gallons of fuel, an extra 135 lb person and a 100 lb dog, than the previous day. SO these numbers, 422 lbs, are added to the GVW of the truck and not the pin weight of the trailer making the trailer pin weight actually 2853 lbs, but making my truck weight even more......

By no means do I want to pass judgement on anyone, but this exercise should be a catalyst to all Montana owners to double check their weights and be concerned about those numbers, whatever they are.

I know many folks use the CAT scales, I have never used them and I wonder how they arrive at the pin weights they do without weighing each axle of both TV and trailer seperately. Maybe someone could splain this to me (as Ricky Ricardo used to say)...

Thanks for all the help I have received and continue to receive from this forum.......

[bsmeaton]

Phil,

The CAT scales have three separate pads for weighing simultaneously; Steer, drive, and trailer axle. To get the pin weight you weigh first with the full rig, then weigh just the truck a second time.

For instance, my drive axle weight with the Monty attached was:
5,820 lbs

When I re-weighed with the Monty disconnected setting over in the parking lot, drive axle weight was:
3,280 lbs

Subtracting drive axle weight empty from drive axle weight loaded gives me the payload or "pin weight" of 2,540 lbs.

My total gross weight of the truck was 7,840 lbs. Subtracted from the truck GVWR of 11,400 lbs, I have a payload of 3,560 lbs. With a 1-ton SRW SB I have a cozy 1,000 lb payload capacity in addition to my pin weight which is a comfortable number for me.

[sreigle]

Phil, the way I figure pinweight when using a CAT scale.... I have the entire rig weighed. Weight is by axle; front truck axle, rear truck axle, trailer axles (1 weight for the two together). I then drop the trailer in their parking lot and have the truck weighed. The only difference in weight is a fraction of a gallon of fuel to go drop the trailer and come back to the scale. Usually no more than 200 yards roundtrip. The total of the two truck axles is the truck weight. The difference in truck weight with and without trailer is the pinweight.

I have yet to find a cat scale that will/can weigh each trailer axle separately. I'll ask next time if they can/will do that. I've had each axle on a different scale segment so I think it's possible. If not, I'll have to find a grain elevator somewhere and do the weighings when they are closed.

[bsmeaton]

Phil,

Just curious - was there any benefit to weighing the trailer axles separately? Or even the side to side? Obviously you had some overweight numbers, but did you have any single tire weight that was grossly over the tire capacity?

[dsprik]

Phil, I like your 2853 pin weight number much better. I like your approach to handling the problem. Steve R. and my pin weights are very close to the same percentages.

[exav8tr]

Brad, One truck tire (rear) was 208 over and the other was 58 over. Measuring trailer axles seperately shows how evnly distributed you load is. Also to see if one axle is too heavy putting more stress on those tires. Side to side load is important to determine how your trailer will do around corners and to determine correct tire pressures for tire wear.

All trailer tires were under max load even though trailer was 1100 lbs over. Other than what I listed above, not sure where to go from here. I guess I could travel with no food or tools and when we get to where we are going buy food there. Maybe change out the factory supplied furniture for something lighter. I'm certainly not giving up my 2nd ac, sat tv, nor slide toppers. Portable ice machine must stay also. Maybe strip closets of clothes and go caveman.

??????????????????????????

Phil

[bsmeaton]

Phil, Looks like your priorities and mine are the same - Perrier ice maker stays, clothes can go -

Are your tires load range E? My E tires have a capacity of 3,640 each and could handle your payload (7,000 lb rear axle). I thought the 3/4 and 1 ton had the same tires. Maybe not. Anyway, I would worry about the overloaded tires more than anything else.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Phil,

Have not checked, but CW site must list weights of slide toppers, A/C unit, etc.

YEARS ago, a A/C we added to a unit was about 100 pounds, ditto for a full sized awning.

Al and John replaced fabric on one of our slide topper awnings, and Al reports that it did not weigh that much, we are GUESSING here (all disclaimers in place, please don't flame us, ok??) that 3 to 4 slide toppers cannot weigh more than 100 pounds.

Anyway, the ice maker stays, the suggestion of new lighter weight furniture might be good! Other than that, here is a suggestion, go to JC Penney site, or Sears, or something and look at the weights of stuff, like pillows, sweaters, toasters, pots and pans, coffee maker, blankets. Add it up, then take a deep breath.

Good thread! and Good luck dumping something???

[sreigle]

I guess I take a different slant on this. At 14,620, we are almost 700 lbs over the trailer's gvwr. BUT, we are under on the axles and on the pinbox.

Then, note that they started using 7,000 lb axles without changing anything else and they bumped the GVWR to more than our current weight. Since the only thing that changed was the axles, that tells me the frame on mine can handle the same weight as the newer models so long as we don't go over our axle and pinbox ratings. Since we're under those ratings I figure I'm good to go.

[bsmeaton]

I think I'll just leave that "slanted" logic alone Steve.

[Bill and Lisa]

Brad, I agree with Steve on using the whole truck weight difference between loaded and unloaded to figure out the pin weight. Using the rear axles alone neglects the wieght (albiet small) that the front axle picks up. (80# in my case).

Bill

[dsprik]

quote:Originally posted by pparamore

... Maybe strip closets of clothes and go caveman.

Yeah... like THAT was discussed with the wife first, Phil.

[bsmeaton]

Ok, explain to me again Bill how exceeding the stamped GVWR is OK? Maybe I'm confused.

[Bill and Lisa]

Brad, sorry for the confusion. I am definately AGAINST exceeding any of the ratings as I hope my other posts show (i.e. I have a weight problem). All I was trying to say was the below quote on how to calculate pin weight was not entirely correct (IMHO). Steve's response right after yours stressed it needs to be the full truck weight difference not just the rear axle difference and I agree. Since the trailer GVW is the trailer alxe weights PLUS the pin weight, calculating a pin weight that is too light because you don't include the trailer weight carried on the front axle, will result in a a trailer GVW that is too low.

Hypothetical situation

Trailer GVWR is 14,000
Trailer Axle weights 11,500
difference between rear truck axle weights = 2500
difference between front truck axles weights = 100

The method you detailed gives a pin weight of 2500 and a Trailer GVW of 14,000 right at the GVWR limit. some would say you haven't exceed the limit and are good.

By considering the whole truck difference (both axles) the pin weight is 2600, giving a GVW of 14,100 - or overloaded by 100. For the sake of aurgument if we consider the limits absolute the trailer IS overloaded but calculating pin weight as you describe does not show it. I don't think you intended to give someone a false peace of mind. You are one of the most knowledgable contributors to this forum and many (myself included) place a lot of weight on your opinions and views. I can't speak for Steve but when I read your post I said "that's not quite right". Steve's post right after yours was IMHO more right and I simply lent my voice to Steve's method. I don't mean to nit pick and I am not bucking for chief of the weight police but I was very surprised by my weights and take being over limit very serious. From the number of comments and posts others are taking a closer look at their own weights as well. It is a very complicated/confusing process prone to mistakes and I wanted to point out what I considered to be a mis-speak on your part. If I ask myself what I had hoped to accomplish I would have to say it would be along the lines of an "oops, you guys are right! I have edited my post." If instead I offended or insulted please accept my appologies. I make many more mistakes in the course of a day than I care to admit and don't get any pleasure or enjoyment out of pointing out percieved errors in others.
I do work to some degree in a black and white world. It was a little error. I asked myself, what if I don't say anything and by some freak of chance someone has an accident related (or judged by their insurance company) to being overweight. Chiming in on the thread afterwards and saying "I was aware of the mistake but I didn't say anything" is not a position I want to be in. So I chimed in.
Friends?

quote:Originally posted by bsmeaton

Phil,

The CAT scales have three separate pads for weighing simultaneously; Steer, drive, and trailer axle. To get the pin weight you weigh first with the full rig, then weigh just the truck a second time.

For instance, my drive axle weight with the Monty attached was:
5,820 lbs

When I re-weighed with the Monty disconnected setting over in the parking lot, drive axle weight was:
3,280 lbs

Subtracting drive axle weight empty from drive axle weight loaded gives me the payload or "pin weight" of 2,540 lbs.

My total gross weight of the truck was 7,840 lbs. Subtracted from the truck GVWR of 11,400 lbs, I have a payload of 3,560 lbs. With a 1-ton SRW SB I have a cozy 1,000 lb payload capacity in addition to my pin weight which is a comfortable number for me.

[bsmeaton]

Bill,

No offense taken and certainly no offense intended. I truly did not understand and now I do given your explanation. Looking at my CAT tickets I see an additional 60 lbs of pin weight that was transferred to the front axle as you describe.

With Monty -
Steer 4,620 lbs
Drive 5,820 lbs
Total 10,440 lbs

Without Monty -
Steer 4,560 lbs
Drive 3,280 lbs
Total 7,840 lbs

Corrected pin weight - 2,600 lbs.

This is the second time trying to get this right, and I'm glad you corrected me. Not a big difference but I do need to get the method right as well as accurate numbers and I thank you for that.

I believe we all strive to provide the most accurate info we can to others on the MOC, and I appreciate any corrections you offer. The end winner is the other guy reading this trying to figure his own rig out through our discussions.

[richfaa]

Phil.... You are a wise man... The first step in problem solving is recognizing that you MAY have one..

[richfaa]

This thread has prompted a great deal of awareness on weight issues.There are some very informed folks commenting here (I am not one of them) and is good to see that folks are at least listening and checking...This is a very good thing.

[exav8tr]

Richfaa, thanks for the kind words. It's kind of like recovery, you have to admit you have a problem first.

Brad & Bill, Of my 3075 lb pin weight, only 50 lbs went to the front axles of the truck, only 1.6%. signifcant? I think not, but still something to consider in the overall scheme of things....

Phil

[sreigle]

On our 2005 Ford shortbed, dropping the pin on the hitch actually lightened the weight on the front axle by 20 pounds. That told me the hitch was mounted so center of the pin was slighly aft of the center of the axle. That is not good but it was such a slight amount it never caused a problem.

I've not weighed the rig with the new truck yet. I recently raised the hitch in the bed a notch to provide more bedrail clearance. That should lighten the pinweight a little bit but will add to the load on the trailer axles. So I need to get it weighed to make sure I didn't shift too much onto the trailer axles. We're pretty close to the ratings on those axles before I moved the hitch. The Dodge also sits a bit higher than did the Ford so I may have shifted more than I realize, overall.

Phil, another rating that's very easy to overlook is the rating for the pinbox. It should be marked on the label on the box. Mine is 19,500 but our 2003 3295RK was something like 15,900 or thereabouts. I imagine you don't have a problem here but it's something easy to forget to check.