What Class Driver License do you have.

[AZ Traveler]

The best government is the least government.

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by BB_TX

Everyone has to take a written test and driving test to obtain the right (privilege?) to drive a "normal" size vehicle. And to show that they at least have some knowledge of what is required to safely control that vehicle. It only stands to reason that you would need additional testing to give you the right to operate a much larger heavier vehicle or combination of vehicles. Does testing inherently make a person a safer driver? No. But I think even a poor driver who has shown he/she knows enough to pass the testing requirements will be better than a poor driver who knows nothing about, or could not pass, those requirements. I don't see that as a freedom, but as an earned privilege.

Bill, Question after seeing all those that have passed a test to drive a normal sized vehicle, can you honestly say that passing the test makes them all a safer driver? Sorry too easy

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by jeffba

Bill, Question after seeing all those that have passed a test to drive a normal sized vehicle, can you honestly say that passing the test makes them all a safer driver? Sorry too easy

Nope. But they would have to be some increment better than those who couldn’t pass the test. And some of those on the road makes you wonder if they have any license at all.

[DebNJim B]

Originally Posted by JABURKHOLDER

26001 lbs, single or combined gross weight, is the tipping point for CDL requirements. My truck GVWR is 14000 lbs, my RV GVWR is 16960 lbs. Combined that is 30960 lbs. Guess I need a CDL. Or do I ? Here In Ohio, RV’s are exempt from CDL requirements. So, even though all you have ever driven your entire life is a Honda Civic, you can go out and buy an F550 and a 45 ft Mobile Estates Rv and drive away with no training or testing, other than what was required to drive your Honda 30 years ago.

Next time you’re cruising down the highway and come across an RV with an Ohio plate, be careful, it might be me, 58 ft of unskilled rolling trouble.

You don't. The key is the "C" in cdl. An RV is not a commercial trailer. I think it really is more about controlling commerce and collecting fees then it is about safety. Seems some states at least require non-cdl's for over 26,000lvs. Is there testing involved it that?

[MxBound]

I have a class a cdl with all endorsements. I'm going to be buying a single rear axle semi to haul my 20k gvwr toy hauler around.
I gotta look into this E license in NM, for after I retire.
Medical exam involved ?
This is the tractor I'm looking at buying, but his toy hauler.

[DmaxDually]

Originally Posted by DebNJim B

I think it really is more about controlling commerce and collecting fees then it is about safety. Seems some states at least require non-cdl's for over 26,000lvs. Is there testing involved it that?

You're right it's not about safety. Here in Florida we have the highest percentage, in the country, of seniors over 65 living here. They are very politically active.
That is why, I guessing, Florida statute 322.53(2)(d) exempts all RV's from CDL requirement, regardless of weight. If you attempt any legislation negatively restricting or affecting seniors in Florida you political career will be short lived.
All you have to do is just barely pass an eye test to get a regular license. I've seen many elderly people, that were being helped into the DMV by their caretakers, fail the eye test or the person behind the counter "helps" them pass and the person renewed their license because they feel sorry for them.
That's same response you here from people (Awh I feel sorry for them) when you see on the news that an elderly driver plowed into a crowd of people or drives through a store front by mistake because they either got confused and hit the gas instead of the brake or they took the wrong medication..

It's not about safety...because if you are a young health person who wants to drive a truck (26,000 lbs +) or a bus for a living you have to get all this special training, takes tests, get a yearly physical to get a medical card and have to carry a medical card with you at all times.
But if you are 65-80+ years old, have health and mobility issues that effect your motor skills, judgement, reflexes, limited movement of your neck or limbs plus you never drove anything bigger than a Cadillac your whole life. You can get behind the wheel of a 45 ft, class A, diesel pusher RV and head out on the highway with no training or experience what so ever.
Do you get less dead if you get hit by a 45 ft RV than you would if you got hit by a truck or a bus???

I'm in favor of requiring endorsement's to your license like you need for motorcycles. Have 2 separate endorsements that require you to take a class, written test and an on road skills tests. One for Motorhomes ( class A,B & C's) and one endorsement for 5th wheels and all bumper pull trailers.

[MxBound]

Having a CDL, and seeing drivers of all types, I'm NOT in favor of special licenses, or any more government control.
A class A CDL, doesn't make big truck drivers and smarter or better drivers.
Look at drivers for SWIFT !!
What are the stats for RV accidents by inexperienced drivers, over know it all, long time drivers ?

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by DebNJim B

You don't. The key is the "C" in cdl. An RV is not a commercial trailer. I think it really is more about controlling commerce and collecting fees then it is about safety. Seems some states at least require non-cdl's for over 26,000lvs. Is there testing involved it that?

My weight is just under the limit so I don't have the class A non-CDL. But from what other Texans have said about the non-CDL class A, you have to take a written test along the line of that required for a CDL, and you have to take a driving test with the 5er attached, including backing.

[DmaxDually]

Originally Posted by MxBound

Having a CDL, and seeing drivers of all types, I'm NOT in favor of special licenses, or any more government control.
A class A CDL, doesn't make big truck drivers and smarter or better drivers.
Look at drivers for SWIFT !!
What are the stats for RV accidents by inexperienced drivers, over know it all, long time drivers ?

From Truck info.net:

What are some accident statistics?
Estimates of 41,000 to 45,000 traffic deaths occur every year within the U.S.. Walkers and bikers account for 15% of the total traffic deaths each year. Fewer than 9% of those deaths involve commercial vehicles. More than 80% of those accidents are the fault of the non-commercial driver. Of those death related accidents only 4% of trucks are fatigue related. Drinking related accounted for .06% of those accidents.

What are some facts about truck driving accidents?
Commercial trucks are involved in 2.4% of all car accidents.
Trucks are 3 times less likely to be in an accident than a regular motor vehicle.

What is the cause of the truck accidents?
More than 75% of truck driving accidents are due to the driver of the passenger vehicle.
Only 16% of all truck driving accidents are due to the truck driver’s fault.

From https://fifthwheelst.com/rv-accidents-statistics.html

Most common causes of RV accidents
Although some of these common causes of RV accidents overlap with causes of car accidents, they are exacerbated in an RV where sheer size plus reduced visibility and maneuverability increase the risk factors for a crash.

Inexperienced drivers
Senior drivers
Speeding
High winds
Overtired drivers
Overloading the RV with too much weight
Runaway trailers
Rollover caused by higher center of gravity
Poorly calculated turns
Miscalculated stopping distances (heavy vehicles require longer stopping distances)
Poorly balanced loads
Failing to see another vehicle in the lane beside the RV due to a blind spot

All of these causes are avoidable (except Senior drivers and High winds) with classroom and practical driver training.

[jeffba]

Originally Posted by DmaxDually

From Truck info.net:

What are some accident statistics?
Estimates of 41,000 to 45,000 traffic deaths occur every year within the U.S.. Walkers and bikers account for 15% of the total traffic deaths each year. Fewer than 9% of those deaths involve commercial vehicles. More than 80% of those accidents are the fault of the non-commercial driver. Of those death related accidents only 4% of trucks are fatigue related. Drinking related accounted for .06% of those accidents.

What are some facts about truck driving accidents?
Commercial trucks are involved in 2.4% of all car accidents.
Trucks are 3 times less likely to be in an accident than a regular motor vehicle.

What is the cause of the truck accidents?
More than 75% of truck driving accidents are due to the driver of the passenger vehicle.
Only 16% of all truck driving accidents are due to the truck driver’s fault.

From https://fifthwheelst.com/rv-accidents-statistics.html

Most common causes of RV accidents
Although some of these common causes of RV accidents overlap with causes of car accidents, they are exacerbated in an RV where sheer size plus reduced visibility and maneuverability increase the risk factors for a crash.

Inexperienced drivers
Senior drivers
Speeding
High winds
Overtired drivers
Overloading the RV with too much weight
Runaway trailers
Rollover caused by higher center of gravity
Poorly calculated turns
Miscalculated stopping distances (heavy vehicles require longer stopping distances)
Poorly balanced loads
Failing to see another vehicle in the lane beside the RV due to a blind spot

All of these causes are avoidable (except Senior drivers and High winds) with classroom and practical driver training.

Taking a test where one of the questions is What year were turn signals made mandiitory, does not improve ones driving skills

[MONTANA_3790]

I think having a CDL has insurance implications and tickets may cost more or have different point value.

[uhftx]

Originally Posted by MONTANA_3790

I think having a CDL has insurance implications and tickets may cost more or have different point value.

You are correct. However it is dependent upon your state of licensure. In NH here is only a requirement if the vehicle is over 26Klbs. There is no motorhome endorsement, There is a motorcycle endorsement though. So according to the standards set forth by the the common respected rule of law. If you are legal in your home of record state. You can travel through the country.
Another state can not impose a rule that your state inspection sticker is invalid in their state. Some states do not even require annual state inspections. Figure that one out.

I do have a DOT certificate only because the state of MA requires it to operate a class 3A hosting license. But nothing to do with RVing.
So it may be an issue on a stop by LE. But not very many of them are sluths and understand the law. They write a citation citing numbers from cliff notes they reference in a book. They do not even understand the numbers. Just what to write from memory or reference their booklet.

[AZ Traveler]

It would be interesting to see stats that compare RV accident rates for drivers from states which require additional testing to drivers from states without requirements. If there is a clear difference I would expect the insurance industry to lobby for tighter testing.

[mlh]

Originally Posted by AZ Traveler

It would be interesting to see stats that compare RV accident rates for drivers from states which require additional testing to drivers from states without requirements. If there is a clear difference I would expect the insurance industry to lobby for tighter testing.

IF, but I’ll bet there isn’t.
Lynwood

[AZ Traveler]

I would agree, but some stats would be helpful to end the argument.

[R.S.O'Donnell]

Just a class C here.

I know this is anecdotal..... But in about 45,000 miles of crisscrossing the USA over the last about 30 months I can't recall coming across even one 5th wheel RV accident.

For the most part I think because we have all the skin in the game (we own and are solely responsible for our rigs).

That's precisely why we drive with the caution that we do. Right lane, 60mph, safe following distance, etc.

[BB_TX]

Originally Posted by AZ Traveler

It would be interesting to see stats that compare RV accident rates for drivers from states which require additional testing to drivers from states without requirements. If there is a clear difference I would expect the insurance industry to lobby for tighter testing.

Probably easier (and cheaper) to simply adjust their rates according to local claim rates than to spend millions on lobbying.

[mlh]

Science has proven people look for evidence that proves what they already believe and discard any evidence to the contrary. So this is something that will not be proven without good strong evidence and even then some people or most wont believe if it’s contrary to what they already believe.
Lynwood

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by uhftx

You are correct. However it is dependent upon your state of licensure. In NH here is only a requirement if the vehicle is over 26Klbs. There is no motorhome endorsement, There is a motorcycle endorsement though. So according to the standards set forth by the the common respected rule of law. If you are legal in your home of record state. You can travel through the country.
Another state can not impose a rule that your state inspection sticker is invalid in their state. Some states do not even require annual state inspections. Figure that one out.

...

After rereading this whole thread, something comes to mind:

1) I don't know that I think that endorsements are the answer, BUT there are endorsements like motorcycles, that I personally believe are necessary. As a point, there are things on motorcycles that you absolutely should know before you start riding on the street: a) 80% of the braking power comes from the front wheel. In the KS driving test to get you license, there is a stop maneuver that you must perfrom, and if you do NOT use the front brake you fail every time. That tells the examiner giving the test that you are not ready. b) there used to be a question on the written exam (don't know if there still is) that said something to the effect of, you are driving at speed, and you turn the handlebar to the right, which way does the motorcylce turn? The answer is RIGHT, which is very counterintuitive. Again, if you miss that question, it tells the examiner you might not be ready.

2) The endorsement, yes or no issue, could be a lot more easily solved, if the federal government mandated what those regulations where, and then we would all have to abide by them, and all be playing by the same rules. In our area, there has been a crackdown recently on DOT vehicles pulling trailers with loads not tied down. That's something that we should ALL do correctly, regardless of whether or not we are DOT certified. If you don't know how to tie something down on a trailer, you probably shouldn't be using a trailer.

To the point earlier about the best government is least government, I agree with that. But at some core, rudimentary level, our government's purpose has to be to protect us as citizens. I don't know that I'm there yet, that the government should protect us from people who don't properly know how to tow, but on the other hand, without some level of federal government rules/laws/control it becomes the wild west.

Do you want the guy towing next to you to be able to do whatever he wants, because his state allows that, or do you want him to be following the same strict rules that your state has? If you live in a strict state, you have at least have some ownership in getting your license. Back to my original argument about motorcycle endorsements. They are there because riding on two wheels is a LOT different than driving on four. The same goes ANY TIME that you hook up a trailer to a vehicle. The dynamics of the vehicle have now greatly changed. Endorsements might not be the end-all-be-all, but they may be a start, but need to come from the federal government IMHO...

[DebNJim B]

We have what is called a federalist system which means the federal government has limited jurisdiction to regulate. Truckers are regulated under CDL and DOT because they travel over state lines and engage in interstate commerce which is under federal authority. Regular drivers licenses are strictly under states control. Hence a motorcycle endorsement in one state and no helmet requirement in another. Strict vehicle inspections in one state and nothing in another. The Constitution is what limits the federal government from intervening in most areas in that what is not in the constitution is then left up to the states to regulate. Having said that it would be nice if the states would get together and align laws in some areas such as traffic laws to make it less confusing to the citizenry.