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Old 06-20-2020, 06:34 AM   #101
Montana Man
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Originally Posted by Davekendall1@yahoo.com View Post
FWIW. Article I just read says a new diesel pickup should be worth 54.9 percent of it's original price in 5 years.
There are a lot of factors that play into that percentage. I was at the dealer and asked what my truck was worth to them in trade. After they checked it out he said 42k and then proceeded to apologize for the low offer explaining how trade ins don't value as high as selling private party. I didn't show my exitement over that number but was very happy with it. Having paid 59k out the door five years ago, it is holding value well.

I don't know but a new Cummins with over 1000 ft lbs torque is sounding better all the time.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:14 AM   #102
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There are a lot of factors that play into that percentage. I was at the dealer and asked what my truck was worth to them in trade. After they checked it out he said 42k and then proceeded to apologize for the low offer explaining how trade ins don't value as high as selling private party. I didn't show my exitement over that number but was very happy with it. Having paid 59k out the door five years ago, it is holding value well.

I don't know but a new Cummins with over 1000 ft lbs torque is sounding better all the time.
Totally agree that the Diesels hold their value far better than a gas model.

However, I would not trust ANYTHING a dealer tells you verbally. If your actually looking for a new truck or camper use this process:
  1. Determine the exact model and specs you want.
  2. DO NOT MENTION YOUR TRADE OR FINANCING WHEN YOU TALK TO DEALERS AT THE START!! DO NOT TELL THEM WHAT YOUR PRICE RANGE IS!!
  3. Use commodity bid process and get the best price "out the door" with all fees figured in from at least 4 dealers. Make sure the dealers understand that you are looking at that many vendors and across state lines! Play them off each other by telling them that the other ones are lower!! At this point you have all the power.
  4. Once you get the best base price THEN you talk about the trade value. DO NOT MENTION FINANCING YET! Batter the trade value back and forth between the dealers just like you did on the base pricing.
  5. Once you get the very best deal on base price and the trade in THEN negotiate financing and make sure you do so with several institutions.
  6. Do not allow the dealership you choose to add in any "extras" like extended warranties, dealer prep of delivery costs as part of the process. Most warranties are not worth half of what the cost its just another way the dealerships can make money on the deal as the warranty companies give them a percentage commission.
Salesmen at car dealerships are taught the "four corners" sales negotiation tactic on day one. The four corners are:
  1. Base price
  2. Trade in allowance
  3. Financing
  4. Add in's.
At each step of the process the dealership has the potential to make money. Using the above negotiating method to circumvent their tactics. Three more things:
  • Do your research ahead of time and know what your trade in is worth (NADA) and also what the current market is for the make and model you are looking to buy.
  • Keep in mind that the dealership will try to "adjust" your trade in if they have to drop the base price on the new unit. That's part two of how they can make money. Also be aware that if your underwater on the loan on your current vehicle they may offer to inflate the out the door price of the new unit to compensate for their loss. That is usually not a good idea since you will be even more underwater on the new one!
  • DO NOT WALK INTO THE NEAREST DEALERSHIP AND THROW YOURSELF ON THEIR MERCY!!!! Those smiling faces and the BS mean NOTHING!!! Only what they put on paper.
Its a business transaction plain and simple, treat it as such. Your not there to make friends with anyone and trust me they are NOT your friends. Most importantly, remember that until you sign the bottom line you have all the power. You can walk out at any point. Be prepared to do so at any time the dealership is not willing to play ball on YOUR terms. Trust me nine times out of ten they will run out the door after you. Just make sure they understand you are dead serious about buying but that you will not negotiate on their terms.
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Old 06-20-2020, 05:58 PM   #103
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Mtlakejim,

I concur for the most part. Buying a truck is a matter of negotiation. The dealer knows their bottom dollar and their job is to get as much over that as possible. I generally do not trade in a vehicle because it is an automatic loss of at least 3k. If you are quoted high on the trade in then you'll get less off the cost of the new one. Sell private party and go with cash. I've found that the lowest prices are found at Dennis Dillon. Their price is a good for a baseline for negotaiting with other dealers.
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Old 06-20-2020, 06:34 PM   #104
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I have an easy way of buying vehicles. A friend’s son in law is the general sales manager at our Ford dealer. I get it at invoice and he gives me what he can buy my vehicle for. Done.
Lynwood
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Old 06-20-2020, 07:37 PM   #105
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Don’t know how other states are. In Texas we have a 6.25% sales tax. But the trade in is deducted from the sales price before tax is calculated. So on a $25,000 trade in you save $1,562 in sales tax (6.25% of $25,000). So here, it would be better to pay $50,000 for the new truck with $25,000 for your trade-in than pay $45,000 for the new truck with $20,000 for your trade-in even though the difference in sale price is $25,000 both ways. Dealer gets the same amount so he doesn’t care.

I always ask the invoice price of the new truck. And they will typically show it after I tell them I pretty much already know in advance since it is available on nada.com, kbb.com, edmunds.com, etc. Then I ask what rebates and incentives are available. Again available on the web sites. And many dealers have a “value my trade” clicky on their web site. I do that and get their proposed value and print it out before going in. But I don’t tell the salesman. That value is likely much more than they will offer when you get down to talking trade.

So. Once they offer a price for theirs based on invoice minus rebates and incentives, if any. that I can agree to, I ask about the trade-in. When they give me a low ball number for my trade-in I hand them the printout from their own web site showing their stated value. That will bring a frown and some stuttering about how that was an estimate sight unseen. But since I adequately describe my vehicle for the estimate they have a very hard time explaining the difference. That is when I start waltzing toward the door. It is all an annoying but necessary game.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:03 PM   #106
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Well I guess I’ll weigh in on this one too. Lol!
I started out with a 2017 f250 gas, we only had a 31’ travel trailer at the Time. When we bought the 3855br, 16900 GVWR we traded to a 2017 diesel f250. It handle it very well but it was over the trucks payload. So, I went on the hunt for a new 2019 f350 diesel SRW. I have a washer and dryer and I am just at the pay load of the truck. I wouldn’t change a thing. We just came out of Yosemite came trough Tioga pass like with no issues at all. I never once touched my brakes coming down the hill. The exhaust brake held it back perfectly.
So if you make sure your truck has the proper amount of pay load and is geared right and has an exhaust brake you shouldn’t need a dually. But I would for sure go with the diesel.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
I have an easy way of buying vehicles. A friend’s son in law is the general sales manager at our Ford dealer. I get it at invoice and he gives me what he can buy my vehicle for. Done.
Lynwood
If dealers sold vehicles at invoice they would be even richer than they are. Invoice is not their cost even though they make us believe it is. My local dealer told everyone, pick any truck and I'll sell it $500 under invoice. That tactic made them a lot of money.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:14 PM   #108
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And the three best times to buy; good - last day of a month, better - last day of a quarter, best - last day of year. Dealer trying to make monthly, quarterly, and yearly sales numbers.
A fourth, if you don’t have to have the newest model year, is buy an end of model year, i.e. buy a 2020 just before or any time after the 2021s hit the lots when they are trying to clear inventory.
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Old 06-20-2020, 08:21 PM   #109
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If dealers sold vehicles at invoice they would be even richer than they are. Invoice is not their cost even though they make us believe it is. My local dealer told everyone, pick any truck and I'll sell it $500 under invoice. That tactic made them a lot of money.
That is due to “dealer hold back”. The manufacturer “holds back” and returns 2%-3% of the sticker (MSRP) of the vehicle depending on the model. So on a $50,000 MSRP vehicle the dealer gets $1,000 to $1,500 if he sells the vehicle for invoice price.
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Old 06-20-2020, 09:09 PM   #110
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On a 60k truck I wouldn't even think about buying until I'm near 10k under msrp. Invoice is of no use to me.
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Old 06-21-2020, 07:01 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by mlh View Post
I have an easy way of buying vehicles. A friend’s son in law is the general sales manager at our Ford dealer. I get it at invoice and he gives me what he can buy my vehicle for. Done.
Lynwood

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Man View Post
If dealers sold vehicles at invoice they would be even richer than they are. Invoice is not their cost even though they make us believe it is. My local dealer told everyone, pick any truck and I'll sell it $500 under invoice. That tactic made them a lot of money.
He did not say it was the absolute best price. But rather implied it was very easy.
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