2003 poor braking

[royando]

2003 Montana 3280RL with original brakes 50 percent remaining. Tekonsha Voyager controller. Soldiered wire connections. Adjusted brakes to 8 clicks back from no rotation. All 4 brakes apply and have 9.9 v to right rear. 25 MPH full manual brake takes 8 seconds to stop without truck brakes. Could all 4 magnets go bad or linings gotten that hard? We have owned for 5 years and no change.

[rohrmann]

Even though you have plenty of friction material left, it could be glazed causing poor braking. It is also possible that the magnets are worn down to the point where they aren't working well either. If you are able to bring both the truck and the trailer to a stop using just the trailer brakes, regardless of how long it takes, says the trailer brakes are working. Is your controller set high enough? That may be a problem, if your brakes worked better when you first acquired this trailer and now not as well. How long ago has it been since you pulled the drums to pack the bearings?

[Irlpguy]

Over the period of time you have had your Montana the magnets will have some wear, also the magnet surface on the drum may be grooved and worn. The biggest problem may be lubrication, there is considerable rust and debris in the drums over time, they then do not move as freely as they did when new. Also as has been noted the pads become glazed and brittle over time and use. If you have never serviced the brakes I would say they are long overdue.

My daughters horse trailer after 4 years although still having about 50% of the pad left on 3 wheels, one was completely gone. I replaced all 4 brake assemblies c/w magnets and all four drums as it was going to cost $60.00 to turn each drum plus about $60.00 for bearings for each drum, I got new drums c/w bearings and seal for $165.00 each. The brake assemblies were in the $145.00 range complete.

I was told by Dexter that the drums could be turned to a Max of .090 but the drum magnet surface could have only minimal resurfacing or the magnets would not respond properly. All in all it cost $1400.00 for all parts, but my labor was cheap...LOL

I suspect your magnets are still functional as far as being a magnet but the spring behind them will be weak and I would highly recommend either checking them yourself or having a good service shop inspect the complete brakes and drums.

[rohrmann]

This past winter, I replaced all four backing plate brake assemblies with shoes and magnets, self-adjusting for about $75 per assembly, plus had the drums turned for $25 per drum. Replaced one questionable bearing and race, plus new seals. Whole thing was less than $500, not counting my labor. Got the parts from Redneck Trailer Supply and had the drums turned at Jacobson Trailer, both in Fowler south of Fresno, CA. Was very happy with the service at Redneck, and they have stores around the country.

[royando]

Thank you for the responses.
The controller is set on full power.
The poor braking has been the same since we bought the rig 6 years ago. We only go about 200 miles a year.
Visual inspection of the brakes looks fine.

So bottom line: with 10 volts to the brakes and 8 seconds to stop the rig at 25 MPH, is it time to replace the brakes?
If so, should I upgrade from 6000 lb to 7000 lb brakes and /or self adjusting?

[rohrmann]

You probably don't need to do anything. You would never attempt to stop your truck and trailer with only the trailer brakes. How well does the combination stop normally? With ours, it is not possible to lock up the trailer brakes, regardless of what the controller is set at, so if that is what you are attempting to do, forget it. Besides, if you even could lock the wheels on the trailer coming to a stop, you would destroy the tires, or at least would flat spot them so bad, you would need to replace them. Just drive safely, being aware of what your stopping distance is and not putting yourself so close to another vehicle that you can't make a safe stop. The brakes on your rig were made to stop the trailer, so increasing the brakes to stop something heavier could create a dangerous condition where you might lose control by not having the truck brake along with the trailer evenly.

[Art]

Royando,
Although I had a different braking issue-sporadic brake failure, I replaced everything from the controller, the feed wires, and the brakes. I'm not suggesting that you do that but to answer your last question, I replaced my 6000# brakes to Dexter #7000 brakes assemblies. The larger magnets and shoes made a BIG different in my braking power. Good luck!

[royando]

I called Dexter Axle today and their tech said:
Spec is 10.5 volts minimum at the brakes, where I have 9.9v.
With a loaded trailer, the brakes will not lock up, they just assist.
He did recommend going to 7000 lb self adjusting brakes, mine are 6000 lb.

[Tom S.]

quote:Originally posted by royando

I called Dexter Axle today and their tech said:
Spec is 10.5 volts minimum at the brakes, where I have 9.9v.
With a loaded trailer, the brakes will not lock up, they just assist.
He did recommend going to 7000 lb self adjusting brakes, mine are 6000 lb.

You might want to try replacing the wiring from the plug back with the next size larger wire using copper. I believe the factory uses either steel or cooper plated steel to see if you can get the voltage up. This applies whether you go with larger brakes or not.

[mtheo]

You should be able to get 12 volts to your brakes

[royando]

Again thank you for the responses.
Has anyone actually taked a reading at the wheels to see what their maximum voltage is with full manual brakes?
Also is 8 seconds to stop the rig at 25 mph with just the trailer brakes reasonable?
This is our first rig and maybe our expectations are too high.

[Irlpguy]

quote:Originally posted by royando

Again thank you for the responses.
Has anyone actually taked a reading at the wheels to see what their maximum voltage is with full manual brakes?
Also is 8 seconds to stop the rig at 25 mph with just the trailer brakes reasonable?
This is our first rig and maybe our expectations are too high.

Here are some readings I have just taken on my 2012 Montana. The voltage at the input to the breakaway switch was 13.3V, when breakaway pin was pulled the voltage dropped to 11.3 and at the same time the voltage at my left rear wheel was 9.8V.

My axles were replaced a year ago complete with brakes and drums by Dexter, they have approximately 3000 miles on them so I consider them like new. Do not forget there will be a voltage drop on the length of wire to the wheels.

Further testing just now showed that when I applied 12.6V (voltage of the battery I was using) to a single magnet the voltage dropped to 11.58V therefore there is a drop of just over 1V across each magnet.

My conclusion is while you might apply 12 or more volts to the wire leading to the wheels you will never read 12V at the magnet. Since they are wired in series, the voltage drop is cumulative or about 4 volts across all 4 magnets.

Since I did not talk to Dexter to understand what they were saying my guess is there must be a minimum of 10.5V applied to the brake wires for the magnet to work effectively. With your vehicle running your battery voltage should be reading around 13.8V unless in a heavy charge condition. If you deduct the 4V drop across the magnets then you are still only going to have 9.8V reading at the magnet.

I hope this makes some sense to you.

I think that 8 seconds at 25 mph is an excessive time to come to a stop if the TV is not providing forward motion from it's drive train. When I apply the manual brake lever on my controller before pulling away it is very difficult to move my Montana and would require considerable acceleration to do so, this is how I check my hookup and confirm my brakes are working.

As I said before I do not think your condition is a voltage issue, I believe the brake shoes may be glazed/hardened and perhaps the components are not all moving freely.

I am no electric brake specialist but experience and the testing I did today confirm what I have said.

[Tom S.]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned - have you adjusted all the brakes properly? To do so requires each axle raised enough to get the tire off the ground, then adjusting the star wheel in the back until the tire can't be turned by hand. Then back off the wheel until you can turn the wheel but still feel a slight drag.

[royando]

Yes, the first thing I did was adjust the brakes (first post, third sentence).
It would be interesting to see what others come up with on the 25 mph trailer brake only test. I feel that this is the only real test of how well the brakes are working. Mine took 8 seconds.

[royando]

I reinspected all 4 brakes. Cleaned and sanded shoes and drums with 150 grit sand paper. Retested and brakes felt better. Took 5 seconds to stop rig with manual switch only at 25 mph.