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Old 03-05-2020, 03:51 PM   #41
FreeRoamn
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As I posted earlier my friends 2020 with the bent cross-bracing between the frame rails is being replaced with a new unit. Took a while for them to get all the details worked out since they had added extras before delivery but Keystone is building them a new rig vs. repairing their rig. Their bent frame cross bracing was a defect from the factory and led to a whole host of issues with many structural features. So good that Keystone is stepping up and we all can only hope that going forward there will be at the very least, fewer folks like my friend and the OP that have to live this nightmare.
 
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:24 PM   #42
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We are going on 4 Months getting ours fixed. So our race with you to getting them fixed is still on. It is 70 degrees out and we cannot go camping.

I have to agree. It gets harder and harder to be supportive of the brand the longer this drags out.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:59 PM   #43
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After reading the above tread, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of letting go of our 2011 3455sa unit. You can keep the newer fru-fru glitzy bells and whistle units.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:11 AM   #44
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Both our 06 3400 and the 13 3402 had "frame flex" frame flex is a generic term and can mean different things .It can be a actual broken frame/welds in the overhang or more commonly the gel coat siding breaking away from the framing it is mounted on both of ours was the gel coat breaking away from the framing. Both were repaired at the service center in Goshen and they did a excellent job. It is also a issue with other brands. Keystone does not make the frame or do any welding. It is done at Lippert across the street. We tour the Lippert plant at most every fall rally and see the frames being constructed. It is not a new issue as it has been a problem for years.
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Old 03-06-2020, 07:20 AM   #45
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But Lippert manufactures the frames to Keystone specs. Suffice it to say I was told there may be a difference in opinion regarding those specs.
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Old 03-06-2020, 04:43 PM   #46
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Well ours is going through the final QA. They did the Frame Flex TSB on the ODS and on the DS they added 2x2s to the 3 lower AL Tubes and added 8" lag bolts.
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:37 PM   #47
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Well ours is going through the final QA. They did the Frame Flex TSB on the ODS and on the DS they added 2x2s to the 3 lower AL Tubes and added 8" lag bolts.
lag bolts??? Since when do you use lag bolts in anything but wood??

From a engineering perspective, the frame is strong. However, in all steel construction, whether used in a building or for vehicle frames, the deflection controls the majority of the time. The sidewall framing and the skin are brittle and cannot deflect as much as the steel so here lies the problem (no structural compatibility). They should scrap the aluminum stud framing around that slide opening and wrap it with tube steel so it can be welded to the frame below on both sides. This would probably fix the separation problem with the aluminum walls at the front corners. It may take some gusseting as well, but it's has to be better than 2x2s and lag bolts.

I'm concerned because I can see trim piece over the siding skin on the front of the slide move about 1/16-1/8" when I transfer the load from the hitch to the front legs. I can live with some movement in the joint, but the separation issues and the repairs leave a lot to be desired.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:31 PM   #48
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You have to wonder at what point does this become a total recall, should DOT be made aware? I would assume that structural welds failing is a significant event that could put others on the road at risk.

I purchased a 2018 Jeep JL Wrangler to tow behind our Class A. A month after purchase I leaned of a Frame weld issue, this quickly escalated to a full recall for inspection and re-weld on those that had the bad welds (I dodged that bullet, but it did de-value the 2018 models in terms of resell value). However what ended up happening to many was Mopar had to take them back and give the owners new 2019 Wranglers they also paid the owners for all the MODS they had made.

This seems like a serious issue that maybe needs to be more in the news and in front of DOT and maybe force an actual recall. The Threat of that alone should push Keystone to speed yours up.
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Old 03-07-2020, 05:53 AM   #49
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Just a quick couple questions - are these 3790/1 and similar size Montanas built with a 12" chassis and is it 'I', 'C' or tubular cross section material. What is the approximate steel thickness? What are the cross members - the same or a built up weldment fabrication or stamped and of thinner material.


Yes, we can and will commiserate with Monty along with other with the same problems. This is bad and wont get better soon. I just don't see a good final conclusion from Keystone.



I'm guessing that some LCI engineer didn't have enough information from Keystone to recommend and design a frame that will work with a 42 foot long, ~17,000 pound fully loaded trailer, suspended near the middle, mostly by the center spring hanger, leaving a heluva lot of weight with no real support in the rear and a bouncing pickup truck hammering, twisting and bucking in the front.
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Old 03-07-2020, 06:27 AM   #50
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The repairs are not in the steel frame, but the Aluminum frame/studs in the walls.

Lag Bolts go through the Aluminum frame that is filled with 2x2 wood.
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Old 03-07-2020, 11:04 AM   #51
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The repairs are not in the steel frame, but the Aluminum frame/studs in the walls.

Lag Bolts go through the Aluminum frame that is filled with 2x2 wood.
So this is superficial and more of a functional deficiency? no concern of catestrophic failures under tow.
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Old 03-08-2020, 07:08 AM   #52
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Things took a turn for the worse on Friday. The rig was finally inspected on Tuesday of last week(after week 4 of being there) and it was determined that the ODS wall was going to have to be replaced and that they wanted the rig for another 10 weeks. We all knew the wall had to be replaced in September. This would ruin our entire spring and summer trips, but then we thought we had it worked out for Affinity to get it back to us in the original time frame. THEN, the service guys were told that our wall color has been discontinued and that both walls will now need to be replaced and may not match the color of the exterior or interior and would need to keep it longer. I posted on another forum and people went nuts. I received a message from an executive at KS Saturday afternoon stating he had seen the posts and would get on a solution early Monday morning. What that will be, I have no idea, but from being around some of them at the last rally, I believe they will do what they can to make things right. This was/is turning out to be like the last time as far as the time away, but we will see what we can come up with this week. The people at Keystone and Montana do care about our rigs and their reputation. I will post later when I can.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:37 AM   #53
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With all the trouble you have been trough, I would stop at nothing short of demanding your rig be replaced with a new unit. Major repairs like you decribe WILL reduse its valve and IMHO it will NEVER be right again. You will more than likly have continued issues with it untill the day its gone.
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Old 03-08-2020, 08:43 AM   #54
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So this is superficial and more of a functional deficiency? no concern of catestrophic failures under tow.
Wall stud failures are not superficial. With the walls flexing all edges of the walls will leak due to seals breaking. Not to mention it is a matter of time before a stud works its way through the wall.

On ours the walls and trim inside the closet was buckling.
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Old 03-09-2020, 02:42 AM   #55
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So this is superficial and more of a functional deficiency? no concern of catestrophic failures under tow.
That is correct. The "flex" is in the left or right(sometimes both) areas under and slightly forward of the front slide and usually causes a splitting of the caulking at the seam of the trim and lower wall at the overhang, some have had a slight bulge under the slide and a few have cracked the fiberglass around the joint at the front lower edge of the slide. There is not a problem with towing the rig as it has not ever been shown to be a safety issue, only cosmetic. However, some have also had the closet floors pushed up and wall inside cracked. It is really a break in the aluminum structure that is sitting on the steel frame.
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:03 AM   #56
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That is correct. The "flex" is in the left or right(sometimes both) areas under and slightly forward of the front slide and usually causes a splitting of the caulking at the seam of the trim and lower wall at the overhang, some have had a slight bulge under the slide and a few have cracked the fiberglass around the joint at the front lower edge of the slide. There is not a problem with towing the rig as it has not ever been shown to be a safety issue, only cosmetic. However, some have also had the closet floors pushed up and wall inside cracked. It is really a break in the aluminum structure that is sitting on the steel frame.
very interesting, so I purchased mine (2019 3701RD Legacy FBP) Late Aug of 2019 T took it in for the last warranty before it expired in Nov where it sat for 3.5 months. I had a list of 28 items and they approved all but one that was the splitting of Caulking in that area, I assumed it was a dry calk that had likely split.

One would think that would be a red flag to Keystone where they would at least investigate further since I unknowingly brought it up? I cannot imagine they are that devious that would push it off especially if cracking seams are a tell-tale.

I would assume that is not a guaranty that there is an issue but still concerning. Since we just spent 3.5 months in warranty and it is scheduled to go to our summer location (where it will be moved maybe 300' 4 or 5 timers this camping season (with the exception of 1 trip to Montana I will deal with this this fall since it is not a structural issue.

Having full body paint I would imagine that the repair becomes even more complicated...

Thanks for the explanation
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:13 PM   #57
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very interesting, so I purchased mine (2019 3701RD Legacy FBP) Late Aug of 2019 T took it in for the last warranty before it expired in Nov where it sat for 3.5 months. I had a list of 28 items and they approved all but one that was the splitting of Caulking in that area, I assumed it was a dry calk that had likely split.

One would think that would be a red flag to Keystone where they would at least investigate further since I unknowingly brought it up? I cannot imagine they are that devious that would push it off especially if cracking seams are a tell-tale.

I would assume that is not a guaranty that there is an issue but still concerning. Since we just spent 3.5 months in warranty and it is scheduled to go to our summer location (where it will be moved maybe 300' 4 or 5 timers this camping season (with the exception of 1 trip to Montana I will deal with this this fall since it is not a structural issue.

Having full body paint I would imagine that the repair becomes even more complicated...

Thanks for the explanation
You are welcome. I have a video of it here.
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:19 PM   #58
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Interesting video.

Mine was slightly different.

It was bulging on the side.

Just heard mine is ready to be shipped back.
It is a good thing I have the MN in my signature. Else I might not remember what I have.

It has been gone 3.5 months. It took longer because a brake failed in transit. (Dealer inspected it 5 months earlier}
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Old 03-11-2020, 09:56 AM   #59
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You are correct. Some of them actually bulge AND split like in the video. My work partner's did that and was repaired at Affinity in Goshen and appears perfect now.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:39 PM   #60
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Wow I am truly sorry for all the grief you guys experience. I believe Keystone is more interested in new designs and innovation than long term quality. The showroom is at times more important than the highway. If they dedicated their time to these repairs like their production line, I would then believe they cared.

I know of folks that received lemon refunds but it can come with non-disclosure agreements. At the same time if they offer to buy them back, everyone would insist on that. My Ram is up to 10 recalls, some of which have no fixes available.
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