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01-21-2022, 05:58 AM
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#21
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Aurora
Posts: 429
M.O.C. #26926
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When you change the converter charve profile to lithium you're sending more than 50 amps to the battery. That trips the auto-reset breaker. Replace that with a larger manual breaker (like the hydraulic system uses). Size the breaker to your converter output (probably 75 amp). I ran into this same issue when I installed my LiFePO4 battery bank.
__________________
Rip & Beth
2021 3121RL Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde IS & pin box
2020 F350 PSD CCLB SRW
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01-21-2022, 08:43 AM
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#22
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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Well I’ll Damn Daryl’s.
You were right. See pics.
One node, feeding hydraulics no power from battery with no shore. Bottom of that wire, not sure where it goes but guessing converter.
In the pic I labeled blue where it had no power. Other side labeled green has power.
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01-21-2022, 08:46 AM
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#23
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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I thought that was just a bus bar. Is it something other?
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01-21-2022, 09:21 AM
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#24
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,696
M.O.C. #5751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl n Susan
....! am having trouble understanding what you have done in terms of testing and what doesn't work. It also helps immensely if you list the year and model on your Montana.
I assume all these tests are without shore power? I am not Lithium Literate....
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Same here....most of this discussion is above my pay grade. However, last August I replaced my house batteries and did a bit of research on Lithiums. After that research, I opted to use AGMs.
Here is a quote from an article on Lithiums....the link to the full article is at the bottom:
"Unlike lead-acid, which needs 14.4 volts to charge, lithium requires 14.6 volts. Since the time and voltage requirements differ by battery chemistry, it’s important to use the correct settings on each charger for the battery type to avoid over-voltage damage and to achieve a proper, full charge. This means all of the battery chargers in your camper should have a LiFePO4 setting or be made specifically for lithium. Another setting simply won’t generate the voltage necessary to properly charge the battery."
https://www.truckcamperadventure.com...thium-battery/
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01-21-2022, 10:26 AM
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#25
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondockboomer
I thought that was just a bus bar. Is it something other?
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No those are 50 amp self-resetting circuit breakers. I suggested checking them in Post #4.
Quote:
Another source of trouble may be the 50 amp self resetting circuit breakers behind the battery. You should upgrade to an 80 amp CB for the supply to the pump and coach. But first check for the same voltage on each side of those two CBs to ensure they are functional.
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__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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01-21-2022, 02:46 PM
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#26
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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So Is everyone in agreement that I should switch out all three of those circuit breakers.
1. Battery to inverter breaker switch from 50 amp to 80.
2. Two 50 amp auto reset breakers, one goes to hydro lift, the other (far right) direct from battery and daisy chained to hydro lift. Switch those two out 80 amps as well???
If yes than I need two 80 amp auto resets, and one 80 amp trip breaker for inverter.
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01-21-2022, 02:57 PM
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#27
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
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Look carefully at the CB for the inverter. I suspect it is 150-200 amp already. It doesn't need to be changed.
The left self-resetting CB with a red plastic cap is the one that feeds the hydraulic pump and the 12V fuse panel. It is the one you say is *NOT* passing voltage. It needs to be replaced. An 80 amp CB is better, but in if you are in a hurry, another 50 amp will work (until it doesn't).
The right self-resetting CB with the red plastic cap normally is fine. The circuits off of it are relatively low amperage. It doesn't hurt to upgrade it but it isn't a necessity.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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01-21-2022, 03:02 PM
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#28
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
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What Carl said
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
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01-21-2022, 03:52 PM
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#29
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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Thanks a bunch. I am on it. Rv electric 101 class completed with passing grade. C-
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01-21-2022, 03:55 PM
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#30
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
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Now that you have that figured out....
Let's talk about the hydraulic system.
Buy a new Bussman or Blue Sea 80A circuit breaker (most reliable).
Mount it on the wall above the others.
Remove the hydraulic system cable from the existing 50A circuit breaker.
If you follow the fat red wire from the battery box (bottom right) it goes to the first breaker (#1) left post. Then you have a short 3" jumper to the 2nd breakers (#2) right post. On this post put a short 4 gauge cable to the new 80A self resetting circuit breaker. On the other post of the new 80A circuit breaker place the cable that goes to the hydraulic motor dual polarity solenoid.
So electrically speaking, the 80A is tied to the battery + post. By doing this you have placed the hydraulic system on its own circuit breaker without changing anything else.
In your case you WILL have to change circuit breaker #2. It is bad.
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01-21-2022, 04:05 PM
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#31
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
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Don't get too comfortable just yet...
If you do any cold weather camping, you want to take good care of those lithium batteries.
How to find happiness with lithium batteries
https://www.solacity.com/how-to-keep...tteries-happy/
I put two layers of 1" styrofoam board insulation in the floor and side walls of my battery compartment. I also made my own battery heaters for them. And I put a 120vac EZ start battery warmer (65w) standing up on edge along the floor againt the front wall to help keep them warm.
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01-22-2022, 12:17 PM
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#32
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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Well guys I kid you not, I replaced that little 50 amp headache with a 80 amp going to the hydraulics and sure enough, on battery power only, lights work, lippert works, but not the refrigerator. No figure. Refrigerator was the only thing that did work. Inverter is now off as well.
But on a really good note, the converter/charging fans are running with shore power on.
Finally will get my battery charged. Need to figure out why inverter suddenly is off, and refrigerator doesn’t work off shore power.
I am guessing with all the disconnects and reconnects something else blew.
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01-22-2022, 12:29 PM
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#33
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Aurora
Posts: 429
M.O.C. #26926
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Ass/u/me you have residential fridge? If so there are some model inverters that have a single 12v wire (small gauge) that is the "ignition" wire, regardless of power from battery to inverter, this wire must have 12v on it before the inverter will output to fridge circuit. Perhaps your ignition wire is not energized. I've "been there and done that" on this one. Even though my inverter control panel said my inverter was on, w/o power on this ignition (trigger) there was no joy. My inverter was the Magnum 2k watt (now a Victron MP2 3k watt).
__________________
Rip & Beth
2021 3121RL Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde IS & pin box
2020 F350 PSD CCLB SRW
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01-22-2022, 01:03 PM
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#34
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Aurora
Posts: 429
M.O.C. #26926
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Boomer,
Though you copied the existing wiring I see a potentially dangerous situation - it appears that the wire on top of the line that goes to the pump is, in fact the wire to the 12v side of your panel. This means that if that 80 amp breaker is "off" and shore power is plugged in you could be getting voltage on the output side of that breaker (output coming back to the batteries from your converter) On my rig that line to the panel went thru a separate 50 amp auto-reset breaker and the factory had a separate 80 amp manual for the hydraulics. Try plugging in and throw that breaker off and test the output side - I believe it will still be hot! Another check would be to trip that 80 amp breaker without shorepower and see if you have 12v inside the rig (I'll bet not).
Solution: drop a jumper from the line side (bottom) of that 80 amp breaker, to feed a second 80 amp breaker and move that second line (the one on top that goes down into the rig) to the new breaker.
Edit: I should add the reason for the initial problem was the current from the converter when charging lithium exceeds 50 amps. That current is now passing thru that 80 amp breaker so all appears fine, but I suspect you'll find the above to be true.
__________________
Rip & Beth
2021 3121RL Legacy Cobalt FBP, MORryde IS & pin box
2020 F350 PSD CCLB SRW
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01-22-2022, 03:27 PM
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#35
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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RipNC,
You bring up a good point. So let me clarify your suggestion.
The wire in yellow with ? Is the wire your referring to?
Solution is to daisy chain a new red wire to the bottom post of new breaker (in blue). Then wire marked in yellow attach to top of new 80 amp breaker?
And then lastly, what’s that little wire in green with its own fuse. That’s not the frig 12v u were referring to is it?
See pic.
And then lastly should I do anything to this breaker.
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01-22-2022, 03:31 PM
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#36
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 53
M.O.C. #28754
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RipNC,
Oh FYI, those two bottom reds go directly to battery.
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01-22-2022, 03:41 PM
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#37
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
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Regarding the 10 gauge wiring.
Blue: trailer brakes
Tan: tank heaters
Purple: slide control switch
Red 1: Power from 7 way cable/truck
Red 2: Power to Level-Up control panel
Red with inline 30A fuse: to solar MPPT
__________________
Daryl and Marianne,
2019 3130re 20th Anniversary Edition
2016 F350 Lariat
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01-22-2022, 04:00 PM
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#38
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipNC
Boomer,
it appears that the wire on top of the line that goes to the pump is, in fact the wire to the 12v side of your panel.
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I disagree. The line one the bottom of the new 80 amp breaker is from the battery. The two lines on the top of the breaker are the ones going UP to the hydraulic system and the one going DOWN to into the hole in the bulkhead and leading off to the converter buss.
Yes, if the 80 amp CB is OFF (I have no idea why one would do that) and shore power is present, the converter will be feeding 12V back on the top post of the 80 amp breaker. But it will only go to the hydraulic system, not the battery.
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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01-22-2022, 04:05 PM
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#39
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Montana Master
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Alton
Posts: 2,654
M.O.C. #24086
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When I rewired mine I put in bus bars.
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01-22-2022, 04:10 PM
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#40
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Carmichael - CA
Posts: 7,324
M.O.C. #4831
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^^^^^^ Very nice!
__________________
Carl (n Susan)
There is more to life than fuel mileage.
2012 Montana 3700RL Big Sky Package towed by a 2015 Ford F350 6.7L PSD 4WD CC LWB
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