trailer will not retain heat

[duaneb]

can anybody tell me if their MONTANA is quite cold even in O c temperatures no insulation

[Icehouse]

Duane, first welcome to the forum!

O C is 32 F right? We fulltime in Alaska and if 0 C is 32 F we are pretty good, but we are pretty insulated. Before we added the extra insulation, we were COLD! We have added quite a bit of insulation over the winter and are much, much toastier now than a few months ago.

We are standard with the arctic insulation package and were reasonably comfortable down to 0 F to -5 F. The other insulation we added made it comfortable down to about -20 F. Sorry I don't know what that converts to in Celsius.

Tammy

[MAMalody]

If my head works right, -5F is around -20C

[HamRad]

We have a 02 model 3295RK. It does have the Arctic Package which is little more than some fancy bubble wrap. We recently stayed at the Grand Canyon. It got down to 11 degrees F. Our fireplace heater which is a no more than a 1500 watt electric heater with a blower on it was able to keep us plenty warm. That night we did supplement the fireplace heater with a little portable electric heater. Had to turn it off or down as it got too hot.

I was very surprised that it stayed as warm as it did! On top of that we had 20 to 40 mph winds! Our water hose froze solid but we just switched to tank water and all was fine.

As toasty as it kept us we will seldom do that sort of thing since neither of us likes the cold weather.

We have done nothing special to "winterize" the rig. As stated above we don't plan to spend any time in really cold weather. Some full timers who spend a lot of time in very cold weather do extra things to stop up all the holes in the rig. This has helped them to stay warmer.

Oh, yeah. The reason we were using the electric stuff was because our furnace quit working in the middle of the night! I think it must be a control board. Will (may) get it fixed one of these days.


Good luck.

HamRad

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Duane,

You don't say, do you have a Montana or a Mountaineer. I believe there may be some difference in the insulation.

But, as all are pointing out, if you intend on spending a LOT of cold weather time in your unit, stategic stuffing of "air vents/aka HOLES" will really help.

You also do not say, what year is your unit, again, does make some difference, as the newer units are better for cold weather than the older ones like ours, or HamRads. They ran the water pipes in a different place, and they don't freeze up as quickly.

Enjoy that unit!

[sreigle]

We get some cold air off the windows unless we cover them with the 3M (or similar) insulating film. That makes a big difference. Also, we keep heater going, set on thermostat. We've been down to 5 below zero (F) and gone a couple of weeks never seeing double digits and have been comfortable, but cool, at those temperature. A sweatshirt helps. Overall we were reasonably comfortable.

If you don't have dual pane windows, the window film makes a large difference in comfort. Does for us, anyhow.

[richfaa]

we are going to have a word with Keystone at the fall rally because our 06 3400 does not stay warm. We used 11 tanks of propane in AZ last winter in 4 1/2 months. At times we used a tank in less than 4 days and I don't think it ever got below 25 degrees or so at night a few times..
The slide outs were always colder and I could not sit at the computer desk without shoes or slippers on. I left a pair of wet tennis shoes in the step well one night and they were frosty in the AM. We keep the temp at 70 degrees..same as the stick house.If one has to run the fireplace, furnace, a couple of electric heaters and wear sweaters to be "comfortable" the camper is not holding the heat very well. As for marketing and their stated "Artic package" May the fleas of a thousand camels alight upon their heads....At anything below 32 degrees these things are chilly..IMO...

[TLightning]

IMHO, the "Zero degree tested and approved" is pure Barbra Streisand. As anybody who has dropped the bottom panel from underneath can tell you, the "insulation" is a 1/4" sheet of bubble wrap encased in tin foil. They like to call it "heat reflective" which is fine, but unless you are upside down in a terrible crash, that stuff will never see the light of day. Some how they have come up with an R rating of 21 for the floor...must be from the 5/8" decking, 'cause it's not from the insulation. As for "tested and approved," that means some guy got in there, with the trailer out in the cold, wearing a parka, and said, "yep, good to go."

[sreigle]

Rich, your propane usage sounds way too high to me unless you keep it awfully warm in there day and night. When we wintered in Kansas City and spent two weeks where the highest temperature in that two weeks was 14 and the lowest low was 5 below, we used the equivalent of one 30lb tank every three days. When temperatures were teens at night and upper twenties to low thirties by day we got easily twice that long, sometimes more.

Tom, I think if you try it you'll be surprised how well that little sheet works. We did those cold temperatures I mentioned in this zero tested Montana and never froze a water line or tank.

I asked Keystone awhile back when talking to one of their people how they went about testing it. They took it to a local rv park and let it set in zero and subzero temperatures and nothing froze. What I do not know is their thermostat setting. I neglected to ask that.

But I can tell you the zero tested Montanas fare far better in cold weather without modification than do the earlier Montanas, like our 2003 3295RK. Those who have been here awhile may recall our trials and tribulations in those days. That small sheet of whatever material it is works surprisingly well. Not perfect, but perfectly adequate for our needs. And it certainly lives up to the advertising.

For one thing, the newer ones also have the water lines in their own insulated channel between the floor and subfloor. Major improvement over the prior models that had the lines laying willy nilly in the belly, including laying on the frame. Guess where those lines froze? Yep, where they touched the frame. Been there.

[richfaa]

That bubble wrap stuff does exactly what it is designed to do here it is

Please use the short form to post such long links. Thank you. RVWheels
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stores/servlet/Navigation?Ntk=AllProps&N=
10000003+90139+503272+
1643&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1


We are replacing ours from the black tank forward because of the black tank leak and it soaked through..It is "moisture resistant" Not water proof. It is "reflective" and has no stated insulating qualities other than being reflective.. It does work. We have not had under belly freeze..but don't count on it keeping your feet warm..(marketing again) I will admit that the main flooring is a bit warmer than the slides as that is were the under belly heat goes. We record our propane usage on tags attached to the tanks...11 tanks in 4 1/2 months in AZ.. 4 tanks in the same 4 1/2 months in Florida (we replaced our 5th tank on the road in GA on the way home. I suppose that if we kept our temp at 60, used a couple of electric heaters and dressed like Nanook of the North while inside we could have done better.. We have a single electric heater on board that Helen uses to keep the bird warm. We have plugged every hole we can find and the slides are a snug fit..thanks to the service center.We do keep the temp at 70 degrees and we do not bundle up inside the camper. Many folks have made many modifications to make these things more livable in cold weather. The newbee should not be confident that they will be comfortable im moderatly cold weather.. "out of the factory" with out any aids such as heaters, sweaters, sweat pants, light jackets, etc.. Of course the real test is try it yourself..make sure both propane tanks are full. Only our opinion and experience..everyone is different.

[Waynem]

Andif it is in the low 40's, or lower, expect it to cycle on and off very frequently. The use of a space heater helps.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

Just my opinion, but, I think that what we EXPECT from our RV's is very different. Some of what we expect is learned from experience, a few years or months of RVing/camping, or many many years.

Al and I have been at it since 1973, tent, popup, bunkhouse, travel trailer with no slides and then our glorious Tana.

Our expectations, based on our experience and living in Michigan is that yes, we can use Tana in April, even late October, but between October and April, well, it gets rather chilly here in our neck of the woods, and there are holes and air spots in Tana, and we are gonna run electric heaters and the furnace (ours is really noisy), and wear thermies and 2 pair of socks and slippers and sweatshirts.

We don't expect our RV/camper to be built like a stick built. We expect to "feel" Mother Nature's acts, when it is HOT, we can feel it blasting thru the day/night shades, and when it is COLD, we can feel it oozing in everywhere.

Disclaimer: Note our unit is a 2004. Newer units have some improvements that will make you a bit more comfy, like quieter air conditioning and furnace and those water pipes insulated a bit better.

Not to sound snotty or anything, but, if you expect your RV to be as comfy as your stick built when it comes to cold and hot weather, maybe you should just stay in the house???

That or start plugging the holes!!

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by richfaa

we are going to have a word with Keystone at the fall rally because our 06 3400 does not stay warm. We used 11 tanks of propane in AZ last winter in 4 1/2 months. At times we used a tank in less than 4 days and I don't think it ever got below 25 degrees or so at night a few times..

Rich,
Although it seems like you used a lot of propane, if my math is correct you only used "about" 2.5 bottles/month which would mean you were getting on average about 12 days per bottle. When you think about it from that perspective, that's not too bad.

Orv

[richfaa]

I guess my point is that we tend to say things like.."we were warm and toasty" without clearly relating what we had to do to be warm and toasty. New folks may read that and assume that they can drive off the lot into very cold temps and be comfortable. Carol's post is typical of what you may need to do to be warm and toasty..Which is whay we go to the Southwest or Florida for "those Months". When it was in the high 20's in Lake Havasu, Az last winter for a couple of days with a 30/45 MPH wind blowing we could have flown a kite inside the 3400. We were always warm and toasty..but at a price. As Carol says..this is NOT your stick house.

[sreigle]

Well, about all I can tell you is we were comfortable doing exactly what I said in my post and nothing more. I said we put the film on the windows to reduce drafts and that worked well. And we wore sweatshirts, etc., just like we did in our stick home in the dead of winter. We used electric heat to supplement the propane furnace where we were not paying for electricity. That, of course, helps on propane usage. We were comfortable.

Propane usage is affected by many variables. How tight is the rig. Dual panes or film or not? Electric supplemental heat. Thermostat setting. Etc.

Was it colder and more drafty than our stick house? Sure. It's an RV. Was it unbearable? Absolutely not. We dressed according to the weather, same as we did in our stick house. We set the thermostat at a comfortable setting and used electric heat to help hold down propane usage. Bear in mind we only got down to five below zero fahrenheit and only had two weeks solid with the high for that two weeks being 14 and many more days sub-freezing but we never hit the 34 below that a couple of our members are experiencing. And, let me tell you, Kansas City can be very windy in the winter or the summer.

I suspect the film on the windows was the main reason we were comfortable and others were not. And that also cuts down on propane usage. If you have dual panes, then no film needed.

[richfaa]

We all have different experiences . I think that was what the OP was looking for.

[Mrs. CountryGuy]

And we have different personal tolerances. As with ALL of life, including our Montanas, what works for me, may not for you.

Hope we all can be realistic about it, and respect our different tolerances,

I can stand a few cold nights, for example on the way south, one morning we left Michigan and it was 4 below, frozen everything. We got to the Effingham Illinois area, and it was a whopping 17 degrees, the telie antenna was still frozen to the roof. We turned the heat up, and were fine.

A few moons ago, when we were younger, we used to winter camp in a prior unit, and let me tell you, now, that was COLD! Lordy. No insulation, no slides, no enclosed underbelly. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. We had fun, it was cold, we loved skiing from the door to the trails. Really did not need a frig, eh???

So, coming from that unit to Tana, well, she is much more comfy than the unit we winter camped in.

That said, ole Carol has gotten soft, and I like warmer climes now!

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

Duane, on another forum or two I've related our full-time living during one of the coldest, wettest southern Montana winters on record. Because we had nothing to compare our situation with, we went into it reminding ourselves that even with the arctic package on our new 2007 rig, we weren't going to be as comfortable as we were in our home. Still, we were pleasantly surprised. I guess the cold slideouts were the biggest "cold feet" producers, but we wore socks and slippers most of the time, and that made a huge difference in comfort. We added a space heater--that helped.

Other than frozen water lines a couple of times, we were quite comfortable. Even those frozen lines, while an inconvenience for half a day or so, were nothing we didn't expect. When it's -40 and the winds are howling across a frozen lake, hitting your rig with full force, a few bumps in the road (or few uncomfortable hours) are not big deals.

You'll soon figure out through trial and error what works for you. We do have double-pane windows and quickly discovered that putting the shades down (both of them) as soon as the days cooled off helped hold in the heat--noticeably so.

Carolyn

[richfaa]

We do not have the dual pane windows but we were surprised at how effective the day night shades are in keeping out the cold and the heat. We have more experience with keeping out the heat on those sunny Az or Florida days and we soon found out that keeping the day night shade down on the side of the camper the sun was hitting made a huge difference. We have never been in the extremely cold temps some of the posters have endured and adjusted to.For the newbee there are a lot of good experiences related here..they should be helpful..but your own experiences will determine what you do.

[grampachet]

If you are not in freezing weather the furnace ducts waste a lot of heat in your basement area. So if not freezing temperatures why heat the basement? I think we need a way to shut of those ducts if not needed.