Hello! Needing advice on remodel!

[Meika]

Hello fellow Montana owners! I just purchased a 2004 36’ Montana for the purpose of renovating it to be a studio fir my small business. I have never owned an RV before, much less renovated one so I have a lot of questions that I’m hoping you all will be able to help me with! Looking forward to the journey!

[dieselguy]

Remodel is a pretty broad term as in we could use more info to your needs. Will it be totally stationary, do you just want it to shed water or be totally functional, does looks matter, what part of the country if stationary ... RV's are not built like a stick house. Wall studs are generally aluminum and not spaced evenly nor are floor supports even close to a stick house. It will be tough to add or subtract a wall if in your plans. Insulation .... you can only pack so much in a wall 3" thick ... windows that are single pane are large points of energy loss. Anyways ... let us know more about your plans and expectations so we can not just ramble on.

[mlh]

Where do you live. That’s important you wont it to be comfortable for your customers. That’s hard in really cold or hot days. Will you be moving it or is going to be parked.
Lynwood

[DQDick]

What type of business it is also makes a difference. Do you need desks, storage etc. Also, since your electrical is part 12v and part 120v that can also create special situations.

[Meika]

It’s a soap making business- and other things like that. No desk space needed, but I might fit it in if it’s possible. I’m hooking the electrical up to my house and installing a whole new electrical panel to support it.

[Meika]

Got it!
I am in NJ and the RV will be stationary. I am hooking it up to my house which is getting new electrical service to support it. I’m upgrading to a 200amp service. I’m not putting up new walls, actually taking them all out and putting in tables and lots of shelving. I need good light and lots of good air circulation. It won’t be a space for customers, it’s just the studio to formulate my products. It’s already been pretty much gutted, we’re ready to move forward with new stuff. I’m really interested in knowing about replacing the carpet with laminate too. I see all kinds of stuff on YouTube, but is that practical?
What other information do you need?

[dieselguy]

If you need 220 VAC for anything in your soap making ... you will run into a rewiring necessity. All standard RV AC voltage is wired 110 VAC. There is usually only 1 or 2 breakers for all outlets through out the fiver. Bear in mind it will be extremely difficult to run anything new inside walls or ceilings ... if you are going to just run conduit on surface of inner wall ... no biggie.

[Meika]

Hi!
Thank you for your reply.
About the electric- If I'm running service to the RV from the house panel, am I to understand that I won't be able to run my lab equipment? Such as stick blenders, homogenizers, overhead stirrers? That will be a huge problem. I was under the impression that I'd be able to run what I needed to as long as I was hooked up to the house. Am I understanding this correctly?

[dieselguy]

I don't have the electrical knowledge as some here on the MOC ... hopefully they will chime in at some point. Since your unit is an 04, I'm guessing it is a 30 amp trailer in that the power cord has 3 prongs not 4. Assuming this, I'll go on a bit. Hooked to your house, you will have no 220 volt access without some rewiring. You will only have 30 amps of current available ... total. Say there are 5 outlets in the RV ... one will be a GFI, the others standard grounded plugs, but they all will be connected to one 15 amp breaker. You will probably have a single dedicated breaker for the microwave outlet, and perhaps a single dedicated breaker and outlet to electric fireplace should the unit have come with one. There will be one dedicated circuit up in the ceiling for the A/C, but it will be hard wired in ... no grounded outlet. I don't know what power requirements all your soap making machines have, you'll have to add them all up and see what total amperage draw you'll have running a typical work day. Again ... if your machines are 220 volt A/C ... you have an issue.

If your 04 is wired for 50 amp service (4 prong power plug) ... you will be better off power wise having potentially 100 amps, but still no 220 VAC without some rewiring. The early 50 amp Montana's were not too much better than 30 amps back then as in power distribution throughout the entire unit.

[DutchmenSport]

If you have gutted the trailer and removed walls to make it an open trailer, like a cargo trailer, and if you are setting it permanently at your home, you will have no need for anything to run on a 12 volt system. You can easily run a main line from your home with a sub panel in your camper. Then rewire the interior with all AC 120 volt electric. Doing so, you will not need a battery 12 volt system at all. At the main junction in your house, you can easily run a 100 amp line to the trailer, sub panel in the trailer, run new electric line inside the trailer, and then you can run all your equipment without any concern for power limited to only 30 amps.

What you will have is a trailer for a shell, but everything inside will be wired same as a house. If you don't need water in the camper, there is no reason to mess with anything there. Just remove the toilet, remove any exposed plumbing pipes, and cover it all up. No reason to remove tanks or anything, you'll never use them again, just cap them off.

If this is all you are doing, then your remodel should be pretty straight forward. Basically, you are taking a shed and turning it into a electric wired shed. Your's just happens to be on wheels.... which you will probably want to remove too, and rest the trailer frame on solid blocks. No need for tires any longer. They can be removed too. (or to beat zoning rules, leave the tires on, and it's still a trailer).

You also do not need to run the new wiring through the walls, You can put the wiring, switches, everything on the outside of the walls (inside the camper), and run everything through conduit.

[dieselguy]

This is what is nice about this forum ... another person comes along looking at the issue totally differently and probably way better. I'd guess however, the rewiring of the entire trailer is a $$$ the OP didn't count on. He did state to me that he needs A/C to keep him cool while making soap and living in NJ ... heat for winter, so there will need to be 12VDC available to control the roof A/C unless he just puts in a window A/C like a stick house which would maybe be better anyways. I'm guessing he'll need water as well in his process. Anyways ... good advice !

[Meika]

Thank you!!!!
I have a guy doing the electric for me and the idea was just to run the 50amp service for the camper and put a panel outside to plug into. What you’re saying is that I need to put a sub panel inside the camper too- right? Will I still be able to run the AC that’s already there with that? The heat is being hooked up as propane heat from my main house tank. Another project!
Upon removing the carpet I found wet spots in the subflooring that was a bummer.
Question- can I put laminate flooring in and still have the sliders work without gouging the floor? I have so many questions!

[DutchmenSport]

Meika,

If you are planning on running the roof air conditioner in your camper, you will need the 12 volt battery system operational as those air conditioners take 12 volt (battery) to run their control board and thermostats. If you are installing a normal house air conditioner, or window air conditioner, then you won't need the battery.

Also, if you have left your power converter in place, you will want to make sure the electric service coming to the camper is ONLY either 30 amp or 50 amp, depending on your camper. If you are by-passing or tossing out the converter and hooking up directly to operate everything, then you won't need the converter.

You still did not explain how you plan to run the wire from your house to your camper. Are you planning on running a line directly from your breaker/fuse panel in your house? Or are you installing a plug-in from the electric panel for the camper?

If you are running a line directly from the house breaker box, you'll want some kind of distribution panel in or on the camper with multiple breakers and then run each line or circuit for what you plan to use it for. You do not want to just run a single line into the camper and then splice lines off of it. It really should go through a sub panel in the camper with each line on it's own sub breaker.

For example, when I wired my 50 amp RV outlet at home, the entire process actually goes through several sub panels. My home is a little unique, but here's how I did it.

First the main power from the power company comes into a panel outside my house. I think this was the original panel for temporary use when the house was built. The line runs through the electric meter and then goes into the first 200 amp sub panel. Inside the panel is the main 200 amp breaker, and 2 sub breakers for 2 - 100 amp. One line goes to the house, the other to the detached garage.

In the garage is another sub panel. The main is 100 amp, and then it has multiple 15 - and - 20 amp breakers, plus one set of 220 breakers for a welder the previous own had.

In the house, the 100 amp line feeds into a new main sub panel with multiple breakers, Some are 15, some are 20 amp, and several are 220, since my house is all electric, including heat.

From there there is also another line that comes off with yet, another sub panel, when an addition to the house was added. It has mostly the 220 breakers for a second water heater, and electric heat and a second air conditioner. In other words, this part of the house goes through 3 sets of fuses.


At the first junction on the panel board outside, I had installed an additional 60 amp breaker and 6 gage wire coming out of it to another sub panel for the camper. Mine is 50 amp, but because the main panel is 200, running another line off was no problem.

That line runs to a sub panel for the camper (rated 50 amp). Inside this box is a plug for 50 amp, 30 amp and 20 amp.

Now, I plug in my camper 50 amp power cord.

Inside the camper is yet another sub panel that is split 50 amp one side, 50 amp the other. This is actually the "converter" for the camper that manages the power so neither side exceeds 50 amps. In addition the converter charges the battery and can run all the house lights (which are 12 volt).

So, here again, anything running in the camper is still going through 3 sets of breakers. And then ... don't forget GFI plugs in the camper, which is actually another breaker in another way. If it exceeds the load, it trips also.

So, what we need from you is to know how you are planning on wiring up the camper. Are you plugging in with an RV power cord into a socket in the hosue? Or are you running a dedicated line to the camper? If the dedicated line, then definately do a sub panel in the camper. If not, make sure you are plugging your 30 amp system in the camper to only 30 amps. If 50, then a 50 amp outlet for RV's.

Let us know your plans. We can advise more (or confuse you even more.... which ever the case may be).

[dieselguy]

I was typing as DutchmanSport replied, but I'll keep my short reply as well ....

I'm beginning to get in a bit over my head here, but I'm sure others with electrical backgrounds will respond. If you go with the approach of simply using the Montana's power cord for power ... if it's a 30 amp cord, you'll have lotsa trouble ... if it's a 50 amp cord, you'll have a bit of trouble. For both, the big issue for you is like most all RV's ... they may have 5-6 outlets from one end to the other, but they will all be on one 15 amp breaker. There may be another breaker and receptacle for say the microwave or fireplace but the power will not be divided among several breakers like a stick house. You will have no 220 VAC available without additional wiring. Like mentioned earlier, it will be best to run power to the Montana, install a subpanel, and rewire it to your needs unless you plan on moving it from time to time. If you wish to run the a/c and original furnace ... you will need 12 VDC power to run the controls of each. Someone else will be along to explain this further.

[Meika]

Hi!
Thank you so much for the direction! Lots of great information!
To answer your question, I’m putting a sub panel outside the house for the camper to be plugged into. Then running off that. I hope this is what you needed? My electrician (who doesn’t usually do campers) said I didn’t need a sub panel inside the camper, but If you think that’s the best way to go, then that’s what I’ll do. I can’t afford to have any of my equipment not work when I need it to; besides the fact that it should be done “right” from the start.
Please let me know if you need any more information and I’ll do my best.
I’ve been reading through the other answers I’ve gotten and just for practical purposes, I’m a she, not a he!��

[dieselguy]

Meika ... at the risk of sounding redundant, I'll ask some questions outright so you can answer them point on.
1. Looking at the end plug on your power cord on the Montana ... 3 lugs or 4 lugs so we know how your fiver is wired.
2. Will any of your soap machines need 220 volt electrical power?
3. You state your electrician is not familiar with RV wiring. He needs to get familiar before he undertakes this project. There is a big difference between stick house wiring and RV wiring.
4. The fuse box inside the Montana is not like a fuse box in a house. It is split by 12 volt DC power and 120 Volt A/C power. There us little if no room to add additional breakers to be able to split up power to different receptacles. It's quite likely all the receptacles in the living area, bath, and bedroom are all on one 15 amp breaker. There may be another receptacle on a separate breaker where the microwave was.
5. If you are planning on running the stock hot water heater, roof A/C, and the furnace no matter where you are sourcing the propane ... you will need 12 volt DC power. 12 volt DC power runs the controls for the hot water heater, furnace and A/C. The blower motor for the furnace is 12 volt DC as well. 12 volt DC power comes from the onboard converter and battery.
6. You could gain a spare circuit by unwiring the electrical heating element from the hot water heater.

Until you tell us about your power cord and the power draw of the machines, we're guessing. Our best guess now is to rewire the inside of the Montana to your needs due to the sticking points I pointed out above. I may be way over thinking this at this point.

[Meika]

I’m sorry fir not answering your question- this stuff is all new to me so I’m learning as I go. I actually don’t know what kind of power my equipment uses so I’ll have to check that out this weekend. I will get back to you ASAP.
Again, I apologize.