Anderson hitch and warranty

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by jeffba

Well what does bug me on this AUH debate is the Hokey Pokey approach Montana has been dealing with AUH. In one rally AUH is on the approved product list and now the next rally it is announced that it is not.

I do not own an AUH but if I did I would be upset.

I think what's missing in this is that it was not Montana who instigated this change. Rather I think your comments need to be directed to Lippert, as per the info I shared in the original post.

I do own an AUH and I am upset, but at Lippert not at Montana. I would have preferred their position was made clear all along and not wait until they were asked the specific question about the AUH. It seems they quietly made an internal change without notifying their partners and that is what upsets me.

Sam explained this on Day 3 of the virtual rally - Lippert is the one who builds frames for most RV manufacturers, and provides the frame warranty. Due to their volume, Lippert has gathered a much larger data set than Montana. So, based on claims they have dealt with, Lippert seems to be saying they have seen failures specific to "adapters" (including the small one of the AUH), and they no longer want to pay to have those failures repaired. (I'm sure the Lippert basis for their decision is debatable, but I hope I am accurately passing along what was shared by Sam).

Things change and I get that. But again, I wish that as Lippert gathered data and made the change they did, that they would have proactively shared that with Montana... but that does not seem to be how this happened.

IMHO, nothing hokey pokey about Montana's reactions in all of this.

Brad

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by kowbra

...

Things change and I get that. But again, I wish that as Lippert gathered data and made the change they did, that they would have proactively shared that with Montana... but that does not seem to be how this happened.

IMHO, nothing hokey pokey about Montana's reactions in all of this.

Brad

I think that you're take on that is correct, that Lippert has the most involvement here, but if they did reverse course on that, and Keystone was using their frames, then Keystone had some culpability to report that to their base as well, I would think. There's probably enough blame to go around, that's for sure.

BUT, not to sound anti AUH, in my mind, they hold the ultimate responsibility in this case. Their hitch system requires you to "modify" the stock configuration to work. At the point that it is modified from it's original design, they hold cards, and they have to take some of the responsibility if frame issues arise. Who/what caused the frame issues can probably be debated ad nauseum as well.

If I'm Lippert, it's in my best interest to design the frame to work with ONE, COMMON type of hitch, and not concern myself with all of the variants. That common hitch in this case is a standard fifth wheel hitch.

In the end, when a frame fails, and you do not have a standard hitch, it's just one more variable in the circle, and the circle gets bigger. Unfortunately, you're on the edge of that bigger circle spinning faster and faster...

[mlh]

If I had an Anderson hitch I would be more then a little worried about Anderson’s warranty. He defaced our National park. Integrity means something. If he would deface our National park would he stand by his warranty?
Lynwood

[RipNC]

Couldn't agree more. When you compare Anderson's action to the history of the B&W company (an interesting read that will make you proud) you just have to shake your head. So glad I bought the Companion. I had no idea about the National Park thing when I made my decision (had to Google it when I saw a mention on this forum).

[rames14]

For clarification, I contacted Pullrite, as that is the hitch that I own. One thing that I see on this forum is that we all tend to look at things from our point of view and our needs. On this forum we have people that never move their fifth wheel, people that have dedicated trucks where the hitch never leaves the bed and countless other variations. I had a Reese slider hitch that performed well for many years. It is still a great hitch, but I started fishing in kayak tournaments. Getting an 82 lb kayak on top of a 1 ton truck when you get older is hard enough. To try to lift it over a hitch by yourself is next to impossible. So, I looked into the AUH because my dealer said that was about all they sold any more. With a 22 percent grade driveway in the mountains, I was concerned and contacted Andersen. They said their hitch would NOT work for my situation. So, I found Pullrite had a similar hitch, all steel, that would handle my driveway situation. It has worked great. I get set up, 10 minutes later I have a clean bed and can take my kayak off the roof and transport it in the bed. My US Rack kayak carrier is cantilevered over the cab. It makes it easier to contact the cap when in the tight turn backing into our spot on the mountain. The extra clearance provided by the Pullrite hitch has made a big difference.

So, with that “background”, last week’s announcement took me by surprise. I had consulted with Montana, Andersen and Pullrite and had a solution that worked “for me”. Also, let me make this distinction. From what I heard, if you tow with the adapter rotated to the back, it is not an issue. I have a number of potential choices.
1. Stop kayak fishing, go back to conventional hitch.
2. Reverse adapter plate and see if I can get by that way.
3. Get a long bed truck and reverse the plate permanently.
4. Continue as we’re doing.
5. Double tow with the kayak on a trailer.
Pullrite has made the decision easier. They have said that they have no knowledge of any issues using their hitch and would stand behind any damage arising from the use of their hitch. Each of needs to determine what works for us.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by rames14

For clarification, I contacted Pullrite, as that is the hitch that I own. One thing that I see on this forum is that we all tend to look at things from our point of view and our needs. On this forum we have people that never move their fifth wheel, people that have dedicated trucks where the hitch never leaves the bed and countless other variations. I had a Reese slider hitch that performed well for many years. It is still a great hitch, but I started fishing in kayak tournaments. Getting an 82 lb kayak on top of a 1 ton truck when you get older is hard enough. To try to lift it over a hitch by yourself is next to impossible. So, I looked into the AUH because my dealer said that was about all they sold any more. With a 22 percent grade driveway in the mountains, I was concerned and contacted Andersen. They said their hitch would NOT work for my situation. So, I found Pullrite had a similar hitch, all steel, that would handle my driveway situation. It has worked great. I get set up, 10 minutes later I have a clean bed and can take my kayak off the roof and transport it in the bed. My US Rack kayak carrier is cantilevered over the cab. It makes it easier to contact the cap when in the tight turn backing into our spot on the mountain. The extra clearance provided by the Pullrite hitch has made a big difference.

So, with that “background”, last week’s announcement took me by surprise. I had consulted with Montana, Andersen and Pullrite and had a solution that worked “for me”. Also, let me make this distinction. From what I heard, if you tow with the adapter rotated to the back, it is not an issue. I have a number of potential choices.
1. Stop kayak fishing, go back to conventional hitch.
2. Reverse adapter plate and see if I can get by that way.
3. Get a long bed truck and reverse the plate permanently.
4. Continue as we’re doing.
5. Double tow with the kayak on a trailer.
Pullrite has made the decision easier. They have said that they have no knowledge of any issues using their hitch and would stand behind any damage arising from the use of their hitch. Each of needs to determine what works for us.

Hi Ron,
Thanks for sharing your experiences and reasonings. Just a couple of thoughts for you to consider:

First, for your #2 above, my experience with the Anderson adapter is that reversing the plate worked well and it did NOT make reduce my turning ability. I know it's counter intuitive, but think about how that is changing the geometry especially where the center of the arc is, and it may make more sense. Bottom line; you may want to try it as it may work well for you.

Next, the option I am now exploring is the Reese Goosebox replacement pin box. It is approved by Lippert and only needs a goose ball in the bed of the truck. Even less than your hitch, there is only a ball to remove to have an open bed. Of course, you would still need to make sure it will work for your driveway.

hth
Brad

[rames14]

Thanks, Brad. I really like the Pullrite hitch (Superlite 2600). One side benefit is there is never a high hitch. The Goosebox would give me a third hitch to store. We just ordered a new 3230CK, so I have about 12 weeks to sort it out. My kayak almost touches the cap already, so we’ll see how that works out. I have moved it forward about 6”, so that may be enough.

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by rames14

Thanks, Brad. I really like the Pullrite hitch (Superlite 2900). One side benefit is there is never a high hitch. The Goosebox would give me a third hitch to store. We just ordered a new 3230CK, so I have about 12 weeks to sort it out. My kayak almost touches the cap already, so we’ll see how that works out. I have moved it forward about 6”, so that may be enough.

Just for clarification, the 2900 is a SuperGlide slider hitch. From your previous post, I gathered that you were not talking about getting a slider hitch.

With that being said, I had a slider before getting my 3900, and I really liked it, and never had any issues with it, that I didn't figure out. It was annoying at times getting unhooked, but I learned what that was caused from, and it was easy to correct...

[rames14]

I corrected it, as in my signature I have the 2600 Pullrite. Thanks for catching it.

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by rames14

I corrected it, as in my signature I have the 2600 Pullrite. Thanks for catching it.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by rames14

Thanks, Brad. I really like the Pullrite hitch (Superlite 2600). One side benefit is there is never a high hitch. The Goosebox would give me a third hitch to store. We just ordered a new 3230CK, so I have about 12 weeks to sort it out. My kayak almost touches the cap already, so we’ll see how that works out. I have moved it forward about 6”, so that may be enough.

Just to make clear - the Reese Goosebox is not a hitch so would not have to be taken off and stored. It is a replacement pin box.
https://www.reese-hitches.com/produc...rade20K_,94720

I'm glad you like your Pullrite Superlite; it seems it has some nice advantages!

hth
Brad

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by kowbra

Just to make clear - the Reese Goosebox is not a hitch so would not have to be taken off and stored. It is a replacement pin box.
https://www.reese-hitches.com/produc...rade20K_,94720

I'm glad you like your Pullrite Superlite; it seems it has some nice advantages!

hth
Brad

Good catch on the explanation of the Goosebox being a pinbox, and not a "hitch" that you take in and out. To followup on that, here is a great link that explains that the Goosebox does NOT give you any additional clearance to the cab for turning, in case anyone is wondering.

He has a formula in there that explains it well...

https://www.etrailer.com/question-263253.html

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by CADman_KS

Good catch on the explanation of the Goosebox being a pinbox, and not a "hitch" that you take in and out. To followup on that, here is a great link that explains that the Goosebox does NOT give you any additional clearance to the cab for turning, in case anyone is wondering.

He has a formula in there that explains it well...

https://www.etrailer.com/question-263253.html

I've seen that formula before, but I think it is flawed. To me, it only applies if the goal is to make 90 degree turns, which I try to avoid at all costs and cannot think of the last time I had to do that. (it is just too much strain on tires and suspension and can increase the likelihood of hitting the box, so plan ahead as much as possible)

Here's an example to show why I say the formula is flawed. Compare an old school square front 5th wheel vs the newer curved front end that Montana has. It's easy to see how the front radius curve has greatly improved the ability to make sharper turns using the same short box and non sliding hitch. To me that development makes more of a difference in using a short box than the choice of hitch.

I just simply never had a time during years of using the AUH that I thought my biggest problem was hitting the back window. In fact, much of that time I had a rollup box cover that was above the bed rails and was almost a foot thick. I can think of only a couple of times when I even got close to bumping that, never mind hitting the back window.
I expect the same with the GooseBox, but I won't know until I try it

YMMV
Brad

[CADman_KS]

Originally Posted by kowbra

I've seen that formula before, but I think it is flawed. To me, it only applies if the goal is to make 90 degree turns, which I try to avoid at all costs and cannot think of the last time I had to do that. (it is just too much strain on tires and suspension and can increase the likelihood of hitting the box, so plan ahead as much as possible)

Here's an example to show why I say the formula is flawed. Compare an old school square front 5th wheel vs the newer curved front end that Montana has. It's easy to see how the front radius curve has greatly improved the ability to make sharper turns using the same short box and non sliding hitch. To me that development makes more of a difference in using a short box than the choice of hitch.

I just simply never had a time during years of using the AUH that I thought my biggest problem was hitting the back window. In fact, much of that time I had a rollup box cover that was above the bed rails and was almost a foot thick. I can think of only a couple of times when I even got close to bumping that, never mind hitting the back window.
I expect the same with the GooseBox, but I won't know until I try it

YMMV
Brad

Yes, you're correct that the formula is getting to a FULL 90, and that might be misleading, but it is true that you will NOT hit on FLAT ground if you satisfy the formula.

My situation is like yours I would guess when I'm towing. However, I have a situation in my own driveway, in which I could NOT make the turn without the nose of the camper being over the bed rails. It is that right. Not the best situation, but the hand I've been dealt.

As a side note, I saw another video on the interweb of a guy showing his Gooseball and how close it got to the side rails during a tight turn. That might be something to watch as well.

Report back with how your Gooseball setup works. Always interested in what others are experiencing!

[firestation12]

Originally Posted by mlh

This is what Lippert and Montana has seen for years. After Anderson defaced our National Park I wouldn’t believe anything he said.
Lynwood

Can someone clue me in about the defacing of the National park story??

[mlh]

He wrote his name or more accurate he carved his name in one of the rocks in a park in Utah.
I’m in the firearms industry if I defaced a shooting range my customers would dump me like a hot potato but I guess it’s Ok if you are in the RV industry.
To me integrity matters.
Lynwood

[firestation12]

Thank you Lynwood for providing the requested information. With your help, I was able to find some information about the incident after. Mr. Andersen was fined $1000 and also paid a nearly $900 restitution fee. Looks like he got off easy as the fine could have reached $100,000. Here is the letter submitted by Mr. Ryan as part of his plea agreement:


August 23, 2018
Dear Friends and Concerned Citizens,
I want you all to know that I have reached an agreement with the government to account for my actions last spring at the Corona Arch in southern Utah. With that agreement I have accepted responsibility for my conduct and have agreed to pay a fine and full restitution to address the damage caused to the arch.
Although I have resolved my case with the government, I will remain committed to helping ensure that our public lands remain pristine. In the future, I hope that others can learn from my mistakes and always act responsibly with our natural treasures.
Sincerely,
Ryan Andersen



One correction to the head line is the location of the offense: From Lisa Bryant, spokeswoman of the Canyon Country District of the Bureau of Land Management, "While the Corona Arch has widely been described either as within a national monument or a national park on social media, it is in fact on Bureau of Land Management land."


Mr.Andersen's apology seems sincere and remorseful, but I for one, am too old to become part of the trending "cancel culture" that has become too common on social media. I say, let each decide their own reaction to this incident and it's outcome, but let's avoid a call for a national boycott of Andersen Industries (if that's what it is called). BTW Lynwood, if in the unlikely event that any of your firearms customers should by chance become disenfranchised by you, I'll happily accept their returns. I'm kidding of course! I for one applaud the many efforts you put forth on this forum to help others!!!! Happy travels! JMAC

[mlh]

If by chance you should need anything we make I’ll give you special pricing. I’m not kidding of course.
Lynwood

[firestation12]

Thanks for the generous offer. All I have in the closet is a Henry lever action .22 sporting an upgraded enlarged lever which my boys gave me for Christmas 10 years ago. I currently have too many other bad habits to start another one.
JMAC

[bshgto]

Originally Posted by mlh

If I had an Anderson hitch I would be more then a little worried about Anderson’s warranty. He defaced our National park. Integrity means something. If he would deface our National park would he stand by his warranty?
Lynwood