3120RL Super Solar Flex Initial Impressions

[MAWilsonPE]

We finally got our new unit delivered and spent our 10 day maiden voyage at a beach in SC. We did not boondock but I did disconnect from shore power for awhile to test the SSF package and I wanted to give you my first impressions.

First, the batteries and inverter/charger are simply amazing. I had 3 lead-acid deep cycle batteries on my old camper with a total of 300 amp-hrs of capacity, of that only half is "usable". Max charge rate was about 30 amps with the batteries at 50%. As I charged those the charge rate dropped significantly at 75% (~10-15 amps) to only a trickle above 85% (5 amps). This package will dump 100+ amps of charging continuously into the batteries to over 99%! Wow!

I was able to run run one air conditioner for almost 3 hours and drained about half of the 510 amp-hr capacity. I inadvertently had my water heater set to electric and saw about 250 amps of 12v power flowing until I switched it to gas!

When we arrived at camp my solar panels were not working. A call to Jaboni helped me find the external breakers on the box to reset the charge controllers and then it worked fine. Tripped again before I got home so I wonder if the truck pigtail connection has something to do with it.

Once working, I saw upwards of 20-25 amps coming from each pair of solar panels. It was pretty sunny but we did get shaded part of the day. I still need to better evaluate how much charging I can expect from the panels in a typical day.

Now that we are back home I plan to spend more time with the system and evaluate the power draw of all the components so I can understand what we can and cannot use while boondocking and still expect to recharge. Stay tuned...

[rames14]

Mike, thanks for the update. We currently have the dyslexic version of yours - 3160. We are starting to talk about a new unit in the next few years and are very interested in the Super Solar. We boondock a lot in Colorado and Wyoming. Please keep us updated as you learn more down the road. We would probably go RV fridge since we like being off grid. The residential fridge consumes a lot of power.

[MAWilsonPE]

Sure thing Ron!

I have been measuring the power draw of everything to prepare an energy budget when boondocking. All readings are at 12 volts (actually 13.3v) with battery power only, shore power disconnected.

Master Switch on - 1 amp

Hallway Lights (2) - 1 amp
Kitchen Lights (4) - 2 amps
Living Room Lights (2) - 1 amp
LED Accent Lights - 6 amps
Awning Lights - 3 amps
Kitchen Hanging Lights - 0.3 amps

Front Slide (electric) - 5 amps
Hydraulic Slides - 80 amps

Ceiling Fan (4 settings) - 0.1-1.2 amps
Vent Fans (4 settings) - 0.2-3 amps

Inverter On - 3 amps

RV Fridge (on gas) - 1 amp
RV Fridge (on electric) - 50 amps

Living Rm TV On - 5 amps
Heater Fan - 14 amps
Vacuum Cleaner - 90 amps
Single A/C (fan only) - 20 amps
Single A/C (fan + compressor) - 76 amps

Daily amp-hr budget = device amps x hours used per day.

Next project is to get a good 7 day average solar charging capacity. This will take some time so bear with me. So many factors, clouds, rain, low sun angle in the Fall... The panels are rated for over 1000 watts, that is almost 75 amps at 14 volts, I am hoping to get half that for several hours per day, or 100-150 amp-hrs on a good day.

[twindman]

I haven't heard about Super Solar. I assume it has an inverter to run A/C and other stuff. Is it a full coach inverter? Thanks.

[MAWilsonPE]

Hi Tom,

Montana Super SolarFlex is a 2021 factory option that includes 4 solar panels for 1060 watts charging, a 3000 watt inverter/charger, 510 amp-hrs of LiFePO4 batteries, high efficiency A/C units with soft starts and other stuff. You cannot get generator prep with this option but that is the point, right? Go to youtube and search "Montana Super Solarflex" for a couple of good overview videos.

Best, Mike

[rames14]

It is using Battleborn batteries - 2x270 ah.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by MAWilsonPE

Sure thing Ron!

I have been measuring the power draw of everything to prepare an energy budget when boondocking. All readings are at 12 volts (actually 13.3v) with battery power only, shore power disconnected.

Master Switch on - 1 amp

Hallway Lights (2) - 1 amp
Kitchen Lights (4) - 2 amps
Living Room Lights (2) - 1 amp
LED Accent Lights - 6 amps
Awning Lights - 3 amps
Kitchen Hanging Lights - 0.3 amps

Front Slide (electric) - 5 amps
Hydraulic Slides - 80 amps

Ceiling Fan (4 settings) - 0.1-1.2 amps
Vent Fans (4 settings) - 0.2-3 amps

Inverter On - 3 amps

RV Fridge (on gas) - 1 amp
RV Fridge (on electric) - 50 amps

Living Rm TV On - 5 amps
Heater Fan - 14 amps
Vacuum Cleaner - 90 amps
Single A/C (fan only) - 20 amps
Single A/C (fan + compressor) - 76 amps

Daily amp-hr budget = device amps x hours used per day.

Next project is to get a good 7 day average solar charging capacity. This will take some time so bear with me. So many factors, clouds, rain, low sun angle in the Fall... The panels are rated for over 1000 watts, that is almost 75 amps at 14 volts, I am hoping to get half that for several hours per day, or 100-150 amp-hrs on a good day.

Thanks Mike, I appreciate you sharing your numbers!

We have a new unit ordered with Super Solar Flex as well. It arrived at the dealer and we will go see it next week. Only trouble is, it is full on winter up here in Canada, and the borders are closed so we can't make our usual snowbird trip south. It's most likely we won't be able to use our new unit for a few months, so I will be following others as they test their new units.

BTW, the original spec was 4x 265 watt panels, but they indicated on our build that we were being upgraded to 4x 300 watt panels. I suspect yours may have been upgraded?

Brad

[MAWilsonPE]

Thank you Brad,

I looked through all the paperwork I got and nothing shows what panels were installed. The Jaboni spec sheets are not very helpful. The 300 watt panel spec sheet shows 60 - 6" cells in a 6x10 pattern, which is what I have. However they show 36 - 6" cells for their 100, 175 & 265 watt panels, clearly a cut and paste error in their specs.

The instructions for the MPPT controller recommends 30 amp breakers on the solar feed lines and 40 amp breakers on the battery lines. I keep popping one of them at somewhere near 23 amps to the batteries which seems low. I have a call to Jaboni to ask the breaker ratings. Maybe I have a bad one. A wiring diagram would be very helpful!!

[MAWilsonPE]

Talked to Future Sales who makes this solar system, they are very helpful. He talked me through turning one controller down a bit until they can send me a new breaker. I confirmed that my build did include the 300 watt panels so that’s 1200 watts total... woohoo!

I am thinking I still may need to supplement the solar for an extended boondocking trip. Has anyone tried the Redarc DC-DC chargers? They make a 40 amp charger to run off the truck alternator when driving. My truck has a 180 amp alternator so two chargers would give me 80 amps and not tax the alternator too much. Have to run some big lines, like long jumper cables. Anyone?

Thanks, Mike

[Creeker]

Originally Posted by MAWilsonPE

I am thinking I still may need to supplement the solar for an extended boondocking trip. Has anyone tried the Redarc DC-DC chargers? They make a 40 amp charger to run off the truck alternator when driving. My truck has a 180 amp alternator so two chargers would give me 80 amps and not tax the alternator too much. Have to run some big lines, like long jumper cables. Anyone?

Thanks, Mike

I'm probably going with the Renogy 40A DC to DC charger. Several YouTube videos online with good reviews. Their website has downloads of the operating manual giving the recommended wiring size for length of run. As well as fuse size.

Amazon and Walmart have better pricing than straight from Renogy website.

https://www.renogy.com/12v-dc-to-dc-...ttery-charger/

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by Creeker

I'm probably going with the Renogy 40A DC to DC charger. Several YouTube videos online with good reviews. Their website has downloads of the operating manual giving the recommended wiring size for length of run. As well as fuse size.

Amazon and Walmart have better pricing than straight from Renogy website.

https://www.renogy.com/12v-dc-to-dc-...ttery-charger/

I emailed Matt from Future Sales and he recommended this instead of a DC-DC charger...
https://precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-...i-BIM-Rev1.pdf

I have just begun to research this, but I like what I'm seeing so far. Compared to a DC-DC charger, this seems cheaper, simpler, and is also designed specifically for lithium charging. Also, the BIM can be switched both ways; so for example if you wanted to charge your vehicle from your solar system that would be possible.

The biggest advantage that they speak about is to prevent damage to the alternator due to the lithium batteries charging profile... lithium batteries will accept a charge about as fast as an alternator can put out, which could overheat and damage the alternator if charging full blast for hours. So the Li-BIM cycles the charging on for a few minutes, then off to cool down the alternator, then on, etc. (I assume a DC-DC charger that can be set to lithium would also protect alternator, but I don't know for sure...)

Also, Matt mentioned that he is seeing charge rates of about 70 amps using the above BIM, and the BIM is ~$150. Seems much less cost than a DC-DC charger...

So, as mentioned, I don't have personal experience, but this does look like a very appealing solution.

Brad

[steve95628]

Originally Posted by MAWilsonPE

We finally got our new unit delivered and spent our 10 day maiden voyage at a beach in SC. We did not boondock but I did disconnect from shore power for awhile to test the SSF package and I wanted to give you my first impressions.

First, the batteries and inverter/charger are simply amazing. I had 3 lead-acid deep cycle batteries on my old camper with a total of 300 amp-hrs of capacity, of that only half is "usable". Max charge rate was about 30 amps with the batteries at 50%. As I charged those the charge rate dropped significantly at 75% (~10-15 amps) to only a trickle above 85% (5 amps). This package will dump 100+ amps of charging continuously into the batteries to over 99%! Wow!

I was able to run run one air conditioner for almost 3 hours and drained about half of the 510 amp-hr capacity. I inadvertently had my water heater set to electric and saw about 250 amps of 12v power flowing until I switched it to gas!

When we arrived at camp my solar panels were not working. A call to Jaboni helped me find the external breakers on the box to reset the charge controllers and then it worked fine. Tripped again before I got home so I wonder if the truck pigtail connection has something to do with it.

Once working, I saw upwards of 20-25 amps coming from each pair of solar panels. It was pretty sunny but we did get shaded part of the day. I still need to better evaluate how much charging I can expect from the panels in a typical day.

Now that we are back home I plan to spend more time with the system and evaluate the power draw of all the components so I can understand what we can and cannot use while boondocking and still expect to recharge. Stay tuned...

Many thanks for posting this. We are looking at a 2021 Legacy 3120RL and it's advertised with solar but only has one panel and the controls do not match what I saw in this video on youtube: https://youtu.be/apeWU8CN_eU

Are there different solar options available? I would def like to get the Super Solarflex option!

[66 Galaxie]

Originally Posted by steve95628

Many thanks for posting this. We are looking at a 2021 Legacy 3120RL and it's advertised with solar but only has one panel and the controls do not match what I saw in this video on youtube: https://youtu.be/apeWU8CN_eU

Are there different solar options available? I would def like to get the Super Solarflex option!

Right now there are two options Solar Flex and Super Solar Flex.

Solar Flex:
300w panel
30a Mppt charger
2000w Magnum Inverter
5 outlets inverted (Night stand, kitchen, TV, theater seats and Residential
fridge) I think it's those 5.

Super Solar Flex
4 panels
dual chargers
2 - 255AH Dragonfly GC3 batteries with heat
MSH3012 Hybrid inverter (whole rig inverted)
Precision Circuits 50A PCS
Precision Circuits BGA (battery disconnect/Low battery cut out)
Victron BMV712
High Efficiency A/Cs with Soft Starts.

[steve95628]

Originally Posted by 66 Galaxie

Right now there are two options Solar Flex and Super Solar Flex.

Solar Flex:
300w panel
30a Mppt charger
2000w Magnum Inverter
5 outlets inverted (Night stand, kitchen, TV, theater seats and Residential
fridge) I think it's those 5.

Super Solar Flex
4 panels
dual chargers
2 - 255AH Dragonfly GC3 batteries with heat
MSH3012 Hybrid inverter (whole rig inverted)
Precision Circuits 50A PCS
Precision Circuits BGA (battery disconnect/Low battery cut out)
Victron BMV712
High Efficiency A/Cs with Soft Starts.

Thank you. I haven't seen the Super Solar Flex option listed on any rigs around here nor on the website. I think all of the ones here must have the basic Solar Flex.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by steve95628

Thank you. I haven't seen the Super Solar Flex option listed on any rigs around here nor on the website. I think all of the ones here must have the basic Solar Flex.

I doubt the dealers will order them for stock, as the Super Solar Flex option has an MSRP of about $20,000. You should be able to get it for $14-15k, but again I'm not sure dealers will take that chance for one on the lot, due to the price and how new it is. It is definitely available as a dealer ordered option; we got it on our 2021 3790RD.

Here are a couple of links to info from the Montana website...

-at the bottom of the main Montana page: https://www.keystonerv.com/product/m...y-fifth-wheels

-and a separate page with a video description: https://www.keystonerv.com/innovatio...uper-solarflex


hth
Brad

[steve95628]

Originally Posted by kowbra

I doubt the dealers will order them for stock, as the Super Solar Flex option has an MSRP of about $20,000. You should be able to get it for $14-15k, but again I'm not sure dealers will take that chance for one on the lot, due to the price and how new it is. It is definitely available as a dealer ordered option; we got it on our 2021 3790RD.

Here are a couple of links to info from the Montana website...

-at the bottom of the main Montana page: https://www.keystonerv.com/product/m...y-fifth-wheels

-and a separate page with a video description: https://www.keystonerv.com/innovatio...uper-solarflex


hth
Brad

Thanks Brad. I've seen that as well as some vids on Youtube. It looks like a great option. As a newb to this I'm not sure how the cost or integration of this compares to an aftermarket system of similar capacity. So I guess at this time, given price of that and availability, I'd go with the standard Solar Flex. Hopefully some of those components can be reused or at least sold.

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by steve95628

Thanks Brad. I've seen that as well as some vids on Youtube. It looks like a great option. As a newb to this I'm not sure how the cost or integration of this compares to an aftermarket system of similar capacity. So I guess at this time, given price of that and availability, I'd go with the standard Solar Flex. Hopefully some of those components can be reused or at least sold.

I think the standard Solar Flex is a great value. Just add a single 100ah battery and you have a good system with no maintenance other than cleaning the panels once in awhile.
Moderate upgrades are easy; for example you can add 1 more panel while keeping all of the same electronics. And, upgrading to 2 to 4 of the 100ah lithium batteries will give you a great system that may be ideal for years to come. Shopping around, you might add the extra panel and a couple batteries for $1500-2000. (Note you will only be wired to run the 5 outlets and not the AC with the above. Running everything would require a portable generator)

On our prior rig we had total of 300 watts solar, and a pair of 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries (very similar to the Solar Flex package with one 100ah lithium battery). With our system, we regularly boondocked for a week at a time. But we did bring a portable generator because if it was cloudy or partial shade we had trouble keeping our batteries recharged. And, of course running AC required the generator as well.

Now, if you think you will outgrow 600 watts of solar and 200-400ah of lithium, or if you want to run some AC and all of the outlets from solar, then it can quickly get complicated and expensive. A DIYer with some experience could likely buy all the parts and self install for less than the Super Solar Flex package. But it would also involve running new wires and carefully designing the right system for your expected loads. In our research, paying a professional to design and install a complete system to match the Super Solar Flex did not seem cheaper.

Those are some of the reasons why we decided to "go all in" and get the Super Solar Flex package. We do not intend on bringing the portable generator anymore.

SUMMARY: getting the Solar Flex to start now, then potentially upgrading to a middle of the road system is doable and a great option at a very good price. If you want a higher end system to run everything including AC, buying it all at once as the Super Solar Flex package made a lot of sense, to us.

hth,
Brad

[steve95628]

Originally Posted by kowbra

I think the standard Solar Flex is a great value. Just add a single 100ah battery and you have a good system with no maintenance other than cleaning the panels once in awhile.
Moderate upgrades are easy; for example you can add 1 more panel while keeping all of the same electronics. And, upgrading to 2 to 4 of the 100ah lithium batteries will give you a great system that may be ideal for years to come. Shopping around, you might add the extra panel and a couple batteries for $1500-2000. (Note you will only be wired to run the 5 outlets and not the AC with the above. Running everything would require a portable generator)

On our prior rig we had total of 300 watts solar, and a pair of 6 volt Trojan golf cart batteries (very similar to the Solar Flex package with one 100ah lithium battery). With our system, we regularly boondocked for a week at a time. But we did bring a portable generator because if it was cloudy or partial shade we had trouble keeping our batteries recharged. And, of course running AC required the generator as well.

Now, if you think you will outgrow 600 watts of solar and 200-400ah of lithium, or if you want to run some AC and all of the outlets from solar, then it can quickly get complicated and expensive. A DIYer with some experience could likely buy all the parts and self install for less than the Super Solar Flex package. But it would also involve running new wires and carefully designing the right system for your expected loads. In our research, paying a professional to design and install a complete system to match the Super Solar Flex did not seem cheaper.

Those are some of the reasons why we decided to "go all in" and get the Super Solar Flex package. We do not intend on bringing the portable generator anymore.

SUMMARY: getting the Solar Flex to start now, then potentially upgrading to a middle of the road system is doable and a great option at a very good price. If you want a higher end system to run everything including AC, buying it all at once as the Super Solar Flex package made a lot of sense, to us.

hth,
Brad

Thanks again Brad - very comprehensive response. I have a lot to learn and think the standard Solar Flex would be a good starting point for me to learn and possibly expand. We'll probably do a lot of our camping in the western US where summer temps can be quite high so I figure I'd get a generator to start with. It's great to have options!

Thanks again!

[kowbra]

Originally Posted by steve95628

Thanks again Brad - very comprehensive response. I have a lot to learn and think the standard Solar Flex would be a good starting point for me to learn and possibly expand. We'll probably do a lot of our camping in the western US where summer temps can be quite high so I figure I'd get a generator to start with. It's great to have options!

Thanks again!

Happy to help; we all start somewhere ;-)

This forum is a great resource, and there are lots of things that I'm the newbie at too.

Brad

[jetskier]

Originally Posted by steve95628

Thanks again Brad - very comprehensive response. I have a lot to learn and think the standard Solar Flex would be a good starting point for me to learn and possibly expand. We'll probably do a lot of our camping in the western US where summer temps can be quite high so I figure I'd get a generator to start with. It's great to have options!

Thanks again!

Steve,

When I ordered my 2019, I got the standard solar/inverter package. The solar/inverter package was new and the super system didn't exist. It came with only three outlets wired on the 2000W inverter. The RV refer, the plug next to the refer on the counter and one opposite the bed in the bedroom. Completely useless power distribution. Now they at least expanded it to include the recliners and TV. The panel is 265W and the charger was a 100V/30A MPPT charger unit. I upgraded to 1175W by adding four 160W panels and another 270W panel to complement the 265W. I used the 160W panels because the 270s where too wide to make it around the third AC over the center area on the roof. I have it in two series strings of three panels each and replaced the charger with a 150V/85A. The 160W panels are rated 8.6A and the 270W panel at 8.77A so the series arrangement works well. This allowed me to keep the current under 20A on the panel side so I could use the 10ga wire. If I ran things in parallel, I'd have to up size the wire drastically. I did upgrade to 2ga on the output of the charger to the batteries along with a larger circuit breaker. It operates at around 70V feeding the charger.

I added a subpanel and a new 50A transfer switch to replaced the 20A unit they had on the output of the inverter. I have power from the inverter for the whole trailer except the ACs, converter and electric WH. I posted about it somewhere on here. I do have the 5500W Onan for the ACs. I can run all three at once with all other circuits off, but it's pushing 5200W. I usually keep two running and have the WH on electric and converter on. As was posted above, the RV refer uses around 600W so it sucks the batteries down fast. I ended up removing it from the subpanel so it didn't kickover to electric when I had the inverter on. Lots of info here, but it is possible to upgrade the standard system. When my four 6V batteries need replacing, I'll probably upgrade.