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05-14-2007, 06:21 AM
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#1
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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No Brakes
Spent a nice Mothers Day will all of our family at the lake! Now I'm spending Monday in my mothers driveway with NO BRAKES
Got a dead short or open - thanks to the MOC, I'm going straight to the brake hubs first to see if that's the problem.
Dog-gone it! This is a real hazard. My Ford controller told me right away, but I wonder if I would have noticed quick enough with one of the standard controllers that don't necessarily alarm. This thing will really overrun the brakes on the TV, and I know I couldn't stop in time if somebody pulled in front of me. Going to try and fix myself, and if no luck, I'll start yelling Warranty to everybody until it's fixed. The only problem is it's the wrong time of season to start sending something to the Dealer to get fixed. I won't see it until Christmas!
I think I would recall this brake wiring problem before I would worry about the dang tailights!
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05-14-2007, 06:57 AM
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#2
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Brad..Start with the junction box under the pin box . That is where the 7 way connector comes in and it is a rats nest of twisty on's. The tail light connections are also in that mess.
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05-14-2007, 01:55 PM
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#3
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,303
M.O.C. #6263
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Hi Brad, Keep us posted. If I were you do an ohm check on the plug to see if its shorted (near zero ohms) or open greater than (3m ohms). If between these values then your likely reading the the 4 coil resistances in parrallel which is a good reading. Next step is to have a good long set of leads to allow bringing the meter over to each wheel and spin them to see if they vibrate and cause a short...if this happens its time to "go in" and look for the dreaded magnet wiring routings and potential for insulation having been rubbed to conductor generating a short circuit which these new controllers sense to prevent smoking a fuse or the truck wiring.
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05-14-2007, 02:14 PM
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#4
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: cedar rapids
Posts: 703
M.O.C. #4962
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If still in warranty,I suggest that it goes to a keystone dealer. If you mess with it and that dose not fix and then you take it to a dealer they can refuse your warranty.
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05-15-2007, 06:00 AM
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#5
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Hazmic - This is beyond warranty, this is looking more like liability. Roadside repair, this is what I found for factory brake wiring!!!!
This workmanship might be bad for a few lights, but for brakes? This is my families life they are messing with! Repaired this mess and was enough to get it home, but still had a brake alarm for about 6 blocks. I think nothing less than a complete re-wire by Keystone for brakes is in order.
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05-15-2007, 07:22 AM
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#6
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Anthem and Munds Park
Posts: 212
M.O.C. #6687
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Brad, This is scary. John says he is going to check ours at the dealer when we pick up the Big Sky.
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05-15-2007, 08:48 AM
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#7
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arroyo Grande
Posts: 504
M.O.C. #6460
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Brad, Where were these pictures taken? Where the wiring comes through the bottom cover at the left wheels? Bill
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05-15-2007, 09:46 AM
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#8
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Bill, yes.
I lowered the belly above the axles on the left (street side) to check with a test light. This is what I found. The wire junctions drop down to the axles and are secured with that black spray foam junk.
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05-15-2007, 11:28 AM
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#9
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arroyo Grande
Posts: 504
M.O.C. #6460
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Thanks Brad. Bill
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05-15-2007, 12:31 PM
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#10
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Montana Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wappingers Falls
Posts: 1,303
M.O.C. #6263
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Whoa...Brad, right on. This is totally unacceptable! Way worse than my issue in previous posting and is clearly something your experience has helped us take note of...now how do we ALL send a clear message to Keystone about Mfg Quality?
Thanks,
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05-15-2007, 02:15 PM
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#11
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kingsville
Posts: 473
M.O.C. #6588
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Like the threads about controlling gas prices, the only way to wake-up the big wigs is by kicking them in the wallet. Either make them fix a very big problem, sue them after an accident, or vote with your feet (walk away from them) and buy from someone else. I wonder how much of this stuff gets beyond the Service Center and on to the Board?
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05-15-2007, 04:07 PM
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#12
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Montana Master
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bum F Egypt
Posts: 979
M.O.C. #2733
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What a mess!! Brad do as I and many others have, go into the belly of the beast and fix it right. This is the only way that you will trust the results. Solder all connections and wire loom all you can reach.
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05-15-2007, 04:55 PM
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#13
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Seasoned Camper
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Royal
Posts: 66
M.O.C. #6706
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Brad," Old World Craftsmanship???" More like an old world crock of $%*t. Thank goodness a child didn't run out in front of you in the hood. Give em' Heck over this. Got me thinking maybe that SOB wouldn't be such a bad idea. Silverback....
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05-16-2007, 03:37 AM
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#14
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Montana Master
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,568
M.O.C. #4890
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The fact that any factory would do such shoddy workmanship on something as vital as brakes is a real crying shame and something has to be done. Records should be available to show who created this mess, who was supposed to inspect it, surely they have quality control !!! or do they trust the unskilled workers they allowed to wire our rigs. This is sad, but thanks Brad for showing us these pics. This is a real heads up.
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05-16-2007, 04:44 AM
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#15
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Guelph
Posts: 296
M.O.C. #4493
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The combination of our own brake failure problem after fewer than 2,000 miles, the sometimes frightening mis-adventures of Rich & Helen on their trip to Arizona this winter, concerns about tire quality and vehicle weight, and a growing sense that Keystone's Montana Division was increasing output and customer-demanded features beyond the point where they could maintain quality at their traditional price levels convinced us to trade our 2005/06 3400RL for a Tiffin Motorhome. The content of this thread is beyond SCARY. It confirms my suspicions re declining Montana quality and convinces me that we were right to "vote with our feet" and buy from a different manufacturer. Keystone may stand firmly behind its customers but that is small consolation if you end up in a major accident because you lost the brakes on 7 tons of fifth wheel!
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05-16-2007, 05:39 AM
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#16
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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NTSB would love to see those pictures and your report. Take the time to do it. It is the only way SAFETY issues like that can be addressed.Although Keystone has the ultimate responsibility all that stuff comes into the keystone/Montana plant as a pre wired/ pre built assembly. if we see this on a Keystone product we would also see it on any brand that uses the same vendor. Brad//you have GOT to send those pictures to Keystone "Team Montana"
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05-16-2007, 06:10 AM
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#17
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Rich,
I was getting ready to send them to Darrel Turner and the Dealer. Is Darrel part of Team Montana, or do you know a better contact?
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05-16-2007, 07:09 AM
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#18
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 1,144
M.O.C. #1846
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the chassis come from Lippert with wheels and brakes already installed? Regardless - I think the problem is not unique to Keystone.
Good catch and thanks for sharing with pictures -- really helps see the nature (and severity) of the problem.
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05-16-2007, 07:15 AM
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#19
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Montana Master
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lone Tree
Posts: 5,615
M.O.C. #6109
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Skypilot - I've thought about that, but I haven't been to the factory to see how the frames come in. I assume they have brake wiring installed from the axles to the pin box, but it would have had to be dissassembled to get the belly pan on.
Another mystery - there is a red jacketed 2-conductor cable (black & white wires) that runs from the pin box back to the axle brakes. That was where I found the poor wiring. There is also a blue wire from the pin box brake connection that dissapears down into the belly. It almost seems to me the blue wire was the original brake wire, which was abandoned in place and they ran the red jacketed pair at the factory.
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05-16-2007, 10:57 AM
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#20
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Darrell Turner woukd be a good person to send it to.
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