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Old 10-20-2020, 07:35 PM   #41
Last2Die
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Originally Posted by beeje View Post
Mlh, The duramax has a Denso fuel system since 2017 with the l5p motor. I think GM got tired of blown up CP4 fuel pumps.

Fare warning to all Ford guys, Ford still uses the CP4 pump which is known to explode and destroy the entire fuel system in the process.

If I am not mistaken, Dodge has now gone from the CP3 to the CP4 pump on the newer trucks.
I think I can add some more information to the CP4 fuel pump. I had a 2015 but never had any problems. In the Chevy I added diesel fuel treatment which added lubrication to the pump. In the fords, Ford decided to use a coating on the fuel pump to help it from the lack of lubrication. Iím sure at some point they will all go out but doing my research this is what I found out.
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Old 10-20-2020, 10:49 PM   #42
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I think I can add some more information to the CP4 fuel pump. I had a 2015 but never had any problems. In the Chevy I added diesel fuel treatment which added lubrication to the pump. In the fords, Ford decided to use a coating on the fuel pump to help it from the lack of lubrication. Iím sure at some point they will all go out but doing my research this is what I found out.
Yeah I hear you. I use Opti lube for many years before I found out about the class action lawsuit going on about them pumps. That's the main reason I traded in my 14 on the current 18 I have.
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Old Yesterday, 01:05 PM   #43
kowbra
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The saying is Ram is a $30k powertrain in a $10k truck. I have found there to be some truth to that. With that, if I were to replace mine with another one, it would be a Ram and accept it for what it is. It has been the best tow vehicle I've had. If not for towing I'd get a Jimmy.
I've owned all of the big 3 HD diesels, going back to the 80's.
Those who are saying the above probably have not driven one of the RAM higher end trims, like Longhorn or Limited. BTW, I do think the base trim models of RAM do look cheaper than the base models from GMC or Ford, but I don't have first hand experience on the newer base models of any of them...

For example of what I'm talking about, below is a link to the first article that came up in a Google search on interiors...
https://automotivemap.com/best-truck...9#rebelltitem9
For years, the RAM Limited trim has been #1 for interior, and the latest 2019+ is nicer again than our 2016. Still a great powertrain, but now it has the nicest interior, AND a tight cab with no squeaks or rattles.

I have my 3rd RAM in a row coming in a few weeks. First time I ordered 3 in a row of any brand, so I guess I've come to like them

Brad
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Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM   #44
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I am a Ford fan. But no doubt about it, the new Ram has a much nicer interior.
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Old Yesterday, 07:26 PM   #45
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I've owned all of the big 3 HD diesels, going back to the 80's.
Those who are saying the above probably have not driven one of the RAM higher end trims, like Longhorn or Limited. BTW, I do think the base trim models of RAM do look cheaper than the base models from GMC or Ford, but I don't have first hand experience on the newer base models of any of them...

For example of what I'm talking about, below is a link to the first article that came up in a Google search on interiors...
https://automotivemap.com/best-truck...9#rebelltitem9
For years, the RAM Limited trim has been #1 for interior, and the latest 2019+ is nicer again than our 2016. Still a great powertrain, but now it has the nicest interior, AND a tight cab with no squeaks or rattles.

I have my 3rd RAM in a row coming in a few weeks. First time I ordered 3 in a row of any brand, so I guess I've come to like them

Brad
My concerns do not lie with the looks of an interior. A higher level of options does not change the basics of the truck. I have a Ram and a Jeep. These vehicles are related and have similar issues with fit, finish, electronics, and quality of materials used in manufacturing. Recalls are a reality of ownership, 15 and counting and some have no solution. I've owned all three brands as well. Not having brand loyalty is liberating. If I'm going to spend $70k on anything I want the best available. Too bad Acura doesn't make a one ton.
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM   #46
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No matter what brand you buy it's really stupid to buy a new truck. If you searched long and hard you can find some great deals.

I bought the truck in my signature a 2018 Chevy LTZ crew cab long bed dually Diesel with nearly every option with only 4600 miles on it in February for 52k. Even had a brand-new backflip hardcover and all WeatherTech mats inside along with wind deflectors and already tinted windows.
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Old Yesterday, 08:11 PM   #47
kowbra
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My concerns do not lie with the looks of an interior. A higher level of options does not change the basics of the truck. I have a Ram and a Jeep. These vehicles are related and have similar issues with fit, finish, electronics, and quality of materials used in manufacturing. Recalls are a reality of ownership, 15 and counting and some have no solution. I've owned all three brands as well. Not having brand loyalty is liberating. If I'm going to spend $70k on anything I want the best available. Too bad Acura doesn't make a one ton.
Interesting, what issues have you had with fit and finish and quality of materials?
I ask because I have actually thought my RAM trucks in the past 8 years to be superior to the other brands in those areas specifically.

And, I would not suggest using Jeep as a comparison to the higher end RAM trim levels; at all. The Wranglers equate to maybe a mid level RAM at best, and none of the Jeeps can compare with the RAM Limited level of fit and finish. I actually own a 4 Runner as I love the look of Jeep but just don't feel the quality is there with Jeep. To me, RAM is a very different overall experience...

When it comes to recalls... my 2013 had a string of issues and recalls, and my 2016 has had very few... I'm not sure that my relatives and friends with the other brands have had significantly different experiences overall. These are very complex pickups now, and only getting more complex.

But, as to overall reliability, between company and personal I've owned dozens of pickups, sedans and SUV's. Nothing comes close to the reliability of Toyota; that's all we have at my company now. If any of the big 3 even came close to that level of reliability, or if Toyota made a 1 ton, now that would be different for sure.

I agree with you on freeing oneself up from brand loyalty. We ordered another RAM after having checked all of the other options and doing a list of pros and cons. I actually went in expecting to buy a GMC because I think RAM is behind with offering only a 6 speed on the diesel option. But the huge difference between interior and other options were just too big of a difference. Here are some things that were not even close on the other brands... leather quality difference is huge, quality of wood trim especially on steering wheel, and acoustic glass!! and noise canceling!!! The quietness of the new RAM Limited cabs must be driven to be appreciated; the only thing that I've experienced that was as quiet is a buddies S63 AMG. Ford Limited and GMC Denali just could not measure up, and again not just on interior... So, I settled for the "old 6 speed" Aisin transmission in order to get the rest of the value.

So, again, I'm really curious your experiences with fit, finish and quality of materials? Where are you seeing that RAM falls down?

I really am curious because I have just had such a different experience. (like compare a Ford tailgate to a RAM tailgate, or the box on all 3, or even the hood latch, or the plastic on the bumper inserts of the GMC, compare the vibration of the mirrors on all 3, quietness of the cabs, etc, etc, etc... the RAM, to me, just seems higher quality all the way around... not by much because there isn't a bad choice out there, but RAM checked out as good or better in most areas and excelled in others... and we just went through looking at all 3 in the last few weeks...). I guess really just can't wrap my head around that the basics of a RAM fall short compared to Ford and GMC...

Thanks in advance for sharing more of your experiences.

Brad
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Old Yesterday, 08:37 PM   #48
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My experience is with the durability of materials used. All new trucks show well on the showroom floor. Initial quality of say a year or less isn't bad for all three. I tend to keep my vehicles for several years. As such I find paint and plastics on Rams to be inferior to others. I'm no expert on the molecular makeup of these materials but they do not hold up to time like other brands I've owned. The plastics scratch easily and fade quickly. The paint requires more effort to keep pristine. And the electronics are problematic both on the Ram and Jeep. The powertrain however is top notch. That is, the components that are sub contracted.

With that I think for a tow vehicle the Ram has the edge for the lowest maintenance cost and good resale value. If I didn't tow I would prefer a Jimmy.
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Old Yesterday, 08:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by beeje View Post
No matter what brand you buy it's really stupid to buy a new truck. If you searched long and hard you can find some great deals.

I bought the truck in my signature a 2018 Chevy LTZ crew cab long bed dually Diesel with nearly every option with only 4600 miles on it in February for 52k. Even had a brand-new backflip hardcover and all WeatherTech mats inside along with wind deflectors and already tinted windows.
Thatís a fantastic buy, nice job! I spent $15K more for a 2019 3500HD High Country crew cab long bed Duramax dually and I looked EVERYWHERE.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM   #50
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My experience is with the durability of materials used. All new trucks show well on the showroom floor. Initial quality of say a year or less isn't bad for all three. I tend to keep my vehicles for several years. As such I find paint and plastics on Rams to be inferior to others. I'm no expert on the molecular makeup of these materials but they do not hold up to time like other brands I've owned. The plastics scratch easily and fade quickly. The paint requires more effort to keep pristine. And the electronics are problematic both on the Ram and Jeep. The powertrain however is top notch. That is, the components that are sub contracted.

With that I think for a tow vehicle the Ram has the edge for the lowest maintenance cost and good resale value. If I didn't tow I would prefer a Jimmy.
Wow, sorry to hear you've had issues like fading and scratched plastics; I've not had those issues. Maybe you do keep yours longer, I keep thinking I will keep longer then get tempted to upgrade about every 3 or 4 years.
As to paint, I cannot comment on the other models in recent years, but will say this... on my 2013 I opted for the dealer paint protection and on the 2016 I decided to save the money. The 2016 paint was much more work to maintain than the protected 2013 paint, so I will get the dealer paint protection again this time.
And, while I certainly have heard of electronics issues and did have a few minor ones on the 2013, fortunately the 2016 has had no issues at all with the electronics.
Bizarre how much our experience has differed. Thanks for sharing,

Brad
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Old Yesterday, 09:53 PM   #51
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Wow, sorry to hear you've had issues like fading and scratched plastics; I've not had those issues. Maybe you do keep yours longer, I keep thinking I will keep longer then get tempted to upgrade about every 3 or 4 years.
As to paint, I cannot comment on the other models in recent years, but will say this... on my 2013 I opted for the dealer paint protection and on the 2016 I decided to save the money. The 2016 paint was much more work to maintain than the protected 2013 paint, so I will get the dealer paint protection again this time.
And, while I certainly have heard of electronics issues and did have a few minor ones on the 2013, fortunately the 2016 has had no issues at all with the electronics.
Bizarre how much our experience has differed. Thanks for sharing,

Brad
IMHO any kind of protection such as paint/ fabric Etc on anything I consider to be just snake oil. Just another dealer add on to make money..

The problem with the paint nowadays is that it's water based paint and it doesn't hold up as good as the lacquers of the past.
There is no Miracle poop you can put on your paint to protect it Beyond some of the good waxes and sealants out there. Even with some of the best you be lucky to get 6 months to a Year's worth of coverage out of them.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 PM   #52
kowbra
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IMHO any kind of protection such as paint/ fabric Etc on anything I consider to be just snake oil. Just another dealer add on to make money..

The problem with the paint nowadays is that it's water based paint and it doesn't hold up as good as the lacquers of the past.
There is no Miracle poop you can put on your paint to protect it Beyond some of the good waxes and sealants out there. Even with some of the best you be lucky to get 6 months to a Year's worth of coverage out of them.
I totally thought so too until my recent couple of RAM trucks. Without the paint protection, the paint on my 2016 just seemed "rougher" overall. Wax worked, but didn't seemed last as long.
I think I'm still skeptical about the price, especially from the dealer, but the reality is I don't have the proper shop or skills to do a high end coating myself... so, I will try paying the price again and see how it goes in the next couple of years. If it works as well as it did on my 2013, I think I will be happy.

Of course, I realize YMMV...

Brad
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Old Today, 12:08 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by beeje View Post
No matter what brand you buy it's really stupid to buy a new truck. If you searched long and hard you can find some great deals.

I bought the truck in my signature a 2018 Chevy LTZ crew cab long bed dually Diesel with nearly every option with only 4600 miles on it in February for 52k. Even had a brand-new backflip hardcover and all WeatherTech mats inside along with wind deflectors and already tinted windows.

I would challenge the statement highlighted above. "Stupid"? In who's opinion? In other minds it might be "stupid" to roll the dice and see what you get in a used vehicle. I don't buy used; won't buy used and don't care if there is a small price differential. The only used vehicles I ever bought (decades ago) were problematic. So maybe it's "stupid" to buy a used vehicle? Or, maybe it's just up to an individual's opinion and harsh, opinionated, judgmental comments are uncalled for??
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Old Today, 07:02 AM   #54
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Wow, sorry to hear you've had issues like fading and scratched plastics; I've not had those issues. Maybe you do keep yours longer, I keep thinking I will keep longer then get tempted to upgrade about every 3 or 4 years.
As to paint, I cannot comment on the other models in recent years, but will say this... on my 2013 I opted for the dealer paint protection and on the 2016 I decided to save the money. The 2016 paint was much more work to maintain than the protected 2013 paint, so I will get the dealer paint protection again this time.
And, while I certainly have heard of electronics issues and did have a few minor ones on the 2013, fortunately the 2016 has had no issues at all with the electronics.
Bizarre how much our experience has differed. Thanks for sharing,

Brad
I also get tempted to get a new one at about the 4 year mark. I thought when they passed 1000 ft/lb torque that would be the time, still resisting. Then while at the dealer fixing recall number 8 or so, they quoted me $42,000 trade in value then apologized for the low amount. Selling for around $3k more private party. With that much down it makes that new one even more tempting.

Good to hear yours is holding up well. Just adds to that temptation thing...

Thx Brad
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Old Today, 07:12 AM   #55
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[QUOTE=beeje;1201542]IMHO any kind of protection such as paint/ fabric Etc on anything I consider to be just snake oil. Just another dealer add on to make money.

Who said this the other day?:

"I guess it is what it is but it's a damn shame you can't inform someone about some of the great products out there without getting sarcastic remarks."

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Old Today, 07:16 AM   #56
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It’s not rocket science on how to take care of paint. Wash, claybar and a quality wax 3 times a year would do it. Don’t forget to do the roof. The newer waxes/sealants make it even easier than ever.
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Old Today, 08:27 AM   #57
beeje
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I would challenge the statement highlighted above. "Stupid"? In who's opinion? In other minds it might be "stupid" to roll the dice and see what you get in a used vehicle. I don't buy used; won't buy used and don't care if there is a small price differential. The only used vehicles I ever bought (decades ago) were problematic. So maybe it's "stupid" to buy a used vehicle? Or, maybe it's just up to an individual's opinion and harsh, opinionated, judgmental comments are uncalled for??
That's not a judgmental comment at all. Maybe I should have chosen a different word or phrase like unwise or something like that.
There are multiple Financial experts with dozens of Articles written stating the same thing.
You would be correct in vehicles bought decades ago being problematic however most of today's vehicles are much more reliable than they were back then.
And you're right sometimes there is only a small price difference between used and new in that case I would go for the new one also. Just did that in 2015 with my wife's Civic. The dealers were getting 15 for a three-year-old Civic 30000 miles on it when a new one was 19 so we bought the new one.
The truck I just bought in February is a totally different situation however. 2 year old truck with 4600 miles on it with an original sticker of $80,000 and I paid 52.
I applaud you new truck buyers because without you there wouldn't be some spectacular deals on used vehicles that are practically new.
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Old Today, 08:38 AM   #58
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[QUOTE=Montana Man;1201562]
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IMHO any kind of protection such as paint/ fabric Etc on anything I consider to be just snake oil. Just another dealer add on to make money.

Who said this the other day?:

"I guess it is what it is but it's a damn shame you can't inform someone about some of the great products out there without getting sarcastic remarks."

Believe what you want about dealer applied mystery coatings. No way I'm paying thousands of dollars for a wax job.There's absolutely nothing new about paint or fabric protection being sold by dealers. They've been doing that for as long as I can remember. Every time you sit down with the finance guy he tries to jam all that stuff down your throat. It's a quick money grab for the dealers. Makes it even worse when you finance it now it becomes even more expensive. I just shake my head when I find out people buy extended warranties on new vehicles and then trade them in after three or four years.
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