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Old 02-27-2009, 01:37 AM   #1
sdroots
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Hook up of new blue flame vent free heater

We have a 10,000 BTU/hr blue flame heater on order. We intend to mount it permanently on end of penninsula of our '07 3000RK. We hope to tap into the 3/8 OD copper tubing that feeds the range. It's about 6 ft away and a pretty easy run. We understand that the heater has a 3/8 female pipe thread on bottom. Can anyone explain how we should plumb it up? Ideally, we would have a shutoff valve. Our concept is to special order the hose, buy the necessary fittings, and install ourselves. We've made a few stops at hardware and propane stores. They seem to think we'll need to tap in with a 3/8 male flare Tee. This would require flaring the ends of existing copper tubing. We're favoring rubber hose rather than copper tubing to gain flexibility. Any hints would be appreciated.
 
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:12 AM   #2
racerjoe
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Two things I can think of. You should either flare the ends as stated or used approved propane gas hose, and always use teflon tape or pipe dope.
The other thing is, I have a 28000btu unit in my shop and I had to use a home style pressure regulator. It is different from the reg. you have in your trailer. These heaters run at different pressures than campers or gas grills etc: read the manual or call someone who sells them for the correct one. This may lead you to running a seperate line to the tank.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:50 AM   #3
ols1932
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by racerjoe

I have a 28000btu unit in my shop and I had to use a home style pressure regulator. It is different from the reg. you have in your trailer. These heaters run at different pressures than campers or gas grills etc: read the manual or call someone who sells them for the correct one. This may lead you to running a seperate line to the tank.
Ours is a 20,000 BTU unit that was installed in Quartzite in 2005 and there was no change in regulator. It operates properly and we've had no trouble with it. We did use a 10 ft. flex hose from the quick disconnect at the floor to connect to the heater so that we could move the heater around where we wanted it.

Orv
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:19 AM   #4
racerjoe
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then it must be the btu size that made a difference. because I could not even get a pilot to start, when I called my propane supplier he tols me right away what the problem was. Brought over a different regulator and heater worked fine.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:47 AM   #5
sdroots
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Thanks for the reply. I understand the flare option, but how would an approved gas hose connect into the existing 3/8 OD tubing? We're in a fairly remote area of Arizona and haven't found a plumber who seems to have an efficient solution. Can anyone tell me how the quick disconnects work? When disconnected does it isolate the gas so that one could continue to use range, etc?
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Old 02-27-2009, 07:40 AM   #6
ols1932
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by sdroots

We're in a fairly remote area of Arizona and haven't found a plumber who seems to have an efficient solution. Can anyone tell me how the quick disconnects work? When disconnected does it isolate the gas so that one could continue to use range, etc?
The quick disconnects are just that. They allow you to connect the hose connection to the propane line. When disconnected there is no gas coming out. The range, hot water heater and refrigerator continue to operate.

I don't know where you are when you say a remote area of Arizona, but we had our flexible connecting hose made by the propane dealer in Quartzite, AZ. He's located north of main street on the east side of the street -- just a few blocks from main. He'll make anything you want -- has all the quick disconnects, teflon tape, etc. that you need. When people tell you to use teflon tape on the threads when connecting, make sure that the tape is usable on propane connections. Plumber's teflon tape is NOT to be used.

Orv
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:33 AM   #7
WorkerB
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How interesting,
I just got back from ACE hardware a few minutes ago. While there I was scouting the propane section to do exactly what you are doing. The fellow there told me that given the two choices of taping into flare or pipe fittings that pipe was less prone to leak especially in the RV environment bouncing down the road. Seemed like common sense but there are several places in my Monty that use flare fittings. I think I'll lurk around to see if someone claiming to KNOW better gives me more confidence in selecting flare or pipe for this application.
John
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Old 02-27-2009, 10:57 PM   #8
sdroots
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I just got back from a Propane store (here in Camp Verde, AZ) that sells vent free heaters similar to the one I purchased. They helped me come up with a very simple design. I tap into the 3/8 OD copper line to range with a 3/8 flare Tee. I then run copper tubing to a 3/8 flare shut off valve located underneath a drawer bank. From the other side of flare valve I run a short piece of copper through the peninsula wall into a flare/pipe elbow that connects directly to bottom of heater. When the heater is not in use, we remove lower drawer and shut off valve. We wanted valve inaccessible so grand children could not access it. The heater can then be removed for maintenance or cleaning by unscreweing the flare fitting that connects to flare/pipe elbow just below heater.
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Old 02-28-2009, 03:13 AM   #9
ols1932
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sdroots,
For what it's worth, a quick disconnect would permit you to connect and disconnect without having to unscrew the flare fitting every time. In the summer time (or at any other time) when we don't want the heater taking up space, it's much easier to quick disconnect and move the heater. Also, on those cool mornings when we want to take the chill off, it's much easier to reconnect. This works for us.

Orv
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Old 02-28-2009, 05:14 PM   #10
Okie Guy
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Let me know how this turns out. I am interested in doing something simular in my unit.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:26 AM   #11
SlickWillie
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What heater is this? Mr. Heater? I saw in bold print not for use in RVs. I suppose the issue would be confined space? It sure ain't based on the RV being too airtight. Heck, I can feel the North wind blowing right now. I'm not flaming guys, just curious. I do like Orv's idea of the quick connect. I would just be sure and have a cutoff valve too. Quick connects are sometimes prone to leak when disconnected.
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Old 03-01-2009, 12:49 AM   #12
sdroots
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I ordered the "GLO-WARM" BLUE FLAME HEATER 10K BTU which can be found by searching on GWP10T at http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com . I don't plan on using a quick disconnect since it will be a permanent mount and I want to minimize the number of fittings. On those few occasions where we do remove the heater for maintenance or cleaning, unscrewing the flare fitting is hardly an issue. My theory is that every connection is another leak source! As far as use goes in an RV, that is a very common application and these types of heaters are commonly found in RV stores. One is supposed to crack a window for ventilation.
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Old 03-01-2009, 02:05 AM   #13
SlickWillie
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Heck of a lot better price than the ones I mentioned. I notice California does not allow vent free heater installation. Some states allow them only in certain areas. Map I'm thinking one of those would be nice on mornings like we have today. Around 40* here, need a little heat to take the chill out. Lots less propane than the Suburban furnace. If installing, I would probably go with a permanent installation also.
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Old 03-01-2009, 02:14 AM   #14
WorkerB
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Slickwillie,
You scared the peewaddins right outta me!! I am the proud owner of a Mr heater and it wasn't all that cheap. DW was concerned the Mr. heater or Blue Flam heater was not appropriate for RV use. I finally convinced her by showing her on line at http://www.mrheater.com/faq.asp?id=27 Then went to the Questions and answers. Below is an exact quote that I cut and pasted from that FAQ page.

Question:
Can I hook my Big Buddy to my regulated propane source in my mobile home, or RV?

Answer:
If your propane source is regulated you can hook it to the unregulated quick coupler connection on the left hand side of the heater using our # F271802 hose and quick coupler connection.
I did also find ..... Correction DW found lots of places that recommended cracking a window for ventilation.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:12 AM   #15
SlickWillie
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WorkerB, I suppose you have the Big Buddy? Wonder if it has some sort of oxygen depletion protection device on it? The only dealings I've ever had with the blue flame type heaters are fireplace logs run on natural gas. I had a set of those installed for an elderly friend of ours, and she found the odor from the gas somewhat a nuisance. We cracked the damper on the fireplace a bit, and that helped. They supposedly did not need to be vented. Of course, we know not all products are created equally.
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Old 03-01-2009, 04:06 AM   #16
WorkerB
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Slickwillie,
Yes I have the Mr. Heater Big Buddy model. You are correct that it is as most blue flame brick style heaters have the oxygen depletion system installed. They are also close to 100% efficient. Both the Blue Flame and Mr. heater brand heaters have a automatic shutoff if the heater is tipped. I checked it and it works. The one down side I have found with the Mr. Heater Big Buddy is that at the higher altitudes (Above 7500 feet) the heater oxygen depletion system kicks in and shuts off. So..... Lets say you are at 6000 feet and you don't have enough fresh oxygen rich air because you only have the window cracked a little. Guess what? So far we haven't had a problem. We're going fly fishing in the Sierras in the spring. We have a wave catalytic heater in the cab over camper. I will take the Mr. Heater to test at higher altitudes. Time will tell. John
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:26 AM   #17
sdroots
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I received my Glo Warm model GWP10T (vent-free, blue flame, 10,000 BTU/hr, propane heater) yesterday and finished the installation today. I Tee'd off the 3/8 copper tubing going to range with 3/8 copper tubing to a 3/8 flare shut off valve and from there via 3/8 copper tubing direct into an 3/8 flare X 3/8 pipe elbow mounted to bottom of heater. I believe this was the minimum number of fittings possible given the desire to include a shut off valve.

According to the manual there is no requirement to provide outside ventilation? We have an unconfined space which is defined as any volume having more than 50 cu ft per 1,000 BTU/hr. We have approximately 192 (30X8X8/10). The manual states that in the case of an unconfined space, "You will need no additional fresh air ventilation".
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:29 AM   #18
KTManiac
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To me, unconfined space means "not a closed box", which is what your trailer is unless something is open, like a door or window. Please be prudent, and use some form of ventilation. My Big Buddy recommends a minimum of 18 sq. in. when it is on high. We don't want anybody waking up dead here.

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Old 03-07-2009, 10:09 AM   #19
WorkerB
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Pete,
KTManiac is correct.

http://www.mrheater.com/upload/78438...B_BL_rev_C.pdf
The Big Buddy user manual refers to the ventilation requirements on page 3. It describes 18 square inches as a 4 1/4" x 4 1/4" opening. In our rigs that is pretty easy to do. Some times it seems like it's just as windy inside as outside. Anybody that has gotten up on a cold windy night and stood by the front door in his boxers can attest to that.
Bottom line is we need to keep our loved ones safe. Read, understand, and follow your manual instructions and you should be fine.
We run at 18,000 BTU just to get the Monty quickly warmed up. Then we reduce the heat to medium or low depending on the outside temps. Last month at Tonopah, NV it was 20 degrees outside and we were a toasty 70 degrees inside running on medium. Hope you enjoy your new mod. Keep us posted on it's performance.
John
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