New Montana questions

[Icehouse]

Montyman,
I think you have made a wise choice. As other have stated, every brand has issues, every unit is truly unique and has it's own quirks. We live full-time in our Monty in what many would consider some of the harshest territory available - Anchorage and Seward, Alaska - YEAR ROUND! We have made modifications, but have had no real issues in 10 months of full-timing with -35 degrees and 26 feet of snow, to all the ice and melting water associated, to 100 mile per hour wind the flow through the Alaska mountain ranges. Our Monty has has (and currently is) serving us well. As with any RV, more maintenance is required than in a stick home, but this brand is very good for us.
Welcome to the forum and don't be afraid to ask anything!!!
Bernie

[sunshineduo]

We've had the unique opportunity to 'store' our 3665 on the dealer's lot at no charge for coming up on 6 weeks now. We go and hook up and pull it out for the weekend, then leave it at the dealer along with anything we might have questions about. So far our coach has been nearly perfect, and the little things we've put on the list have been handled during the week.

We've found the Montana to be nicely appointed and easy to live in. We also expect to have to keep up with the maintenance and, as with any house (especially one that sits on a semi-permant earthquake zone called an interstate highway), we expect to have to fix things as they go wrong or wear out.
To date, I have not second-guessed our purchase once.

The one baffling electrical issue was quickly solved by referring here to the forum, and discovered to be a classic case of the learning curve.

[Wayne and Carolyn Mathews]

Montyman, you've made a good choice in going with a Montana. We've owned another brand, which we loved, but it wasn't as nicely appointed as our Montana, and it had its share of problems, some insignificant and some pretty serious. You probably did get a scare when you saw all the problems and fixes on this web site, but what I think is that MOCers are sharing their knowledge with those of us who aren't quite so handy doing repairs. And if you mentally list the kinds of problems you see, they're minor, for the most part. You're going to get those problems in any rig, including Class A motorhomes. I belong to several user-groups for computers, and you should see those forums: I'd bet 99% of the postings are nothing but complaints, problems, and wild-eyed rantings. (Check out any user-forum for Windows Vista OS--woo hoo!)


My parents were believers in Holiday Rambler trailers; that's the only brand my dad would consider. I grew up watching him pull into our vacation spot, get out his tool kit, and start fixing the little things that frequently happen on the road. (I think he secretly was a compulsive fixer, too--he wasn't happy unless he could work on the RV whether at home or on vacation!) One of my uncles had a high-dollar Class A; he traveled with us a lot, and just like my dad, he started working on his rig the minute we were parked. I know both men would have LOVED a forum like this one--they would have been on it every day, checking to see who needed help and looking for improvements/modifications they could make on their rigs.

My brother and I both bought Montanas after doing a lot of research on the web and by actually talking to people who were pulling them every time we had a chance. Over and over we heard the same thing: You won't go wrong with a Montana.

So, look at the list of problems here as things you'd get with any RV--and with some RV's, you'd get a much bigger list with much more serious problems, I'm sure. Maybe I'm seeing the glass half-full instead of half-empty, but I love reading all the posts and then printing out the problems and fixes suggested by our members. So far, I've had a few things that members helped me fix, saving me a trip to the dealership 2 hours away and boosting my confidence in my ability to handle some of the little stuff. Good thing I'm not trying to learn a lot, because our Montana just hasn't had many problems, and has had NO major ones!

Enjoy! We really believe that Montanas are the best rigs on the road in their class.
Wayne and Carolyn Mathews

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Unfortunately, we are one of the late 2006 3400RL owners that has had continuing significant and major problems during the 28 months we have owned it. I guess we got a lemon. However, There are a few tips that might aid you in reducing future problems. Some have been already mentioned. The first I have is to do a very, very and thorough inspection before you pay and take delivery. Make sure all features work on all the appliances, check for water and sewer leaks under full pressure, check for all areas of workmanship, stripped screws in the cabinet hinges, loose screws, unfinished Assemblies, unsquare door frames, warped doors, sagging roofs on slides, loose wiring, all manuals available with warranty cards, slides slide in and out properly and seal properly, check black tank flushing, that all DC and AC lights and fixtures work properly, tire cracks, spring shackle cracks and frame cracks and on and on. Be very determined to find anything you can find. Then refuse to consummate the deal until you are completely and 100% satisfied and then check even more thoroughly again before you pay and drive off the lot. Camp for a few days close to the dealer and exercise as much as you can of of all the features of the RV as possible. However, some of our problems showed up 6, 12 and 15 months after purchase. Some of them could have been caught if we had been more vigilant. Our unit has been in dealer lots for warranty and non-warranty repairs for more than 50 days since May of 2006.

The second item I would like to mention is relative to warranty & non-warranty repairs. We have received better service at the dealer we purchased from than from other Montana dealers. Both warranty and non-warranty work. The primary reason I think is they feel more obligated. There is another underlying reason that is more hidden. When a dealer is required to do warranty work, Montana has a fixed charge that they will authorize. Both labor and materials. As an example. Montana and I believe some extended warranty companies will only pay a dealer for 4 hours of labor to replace a black tank under their respective warranties. Since we recently have had to replace the black tank on our unit in a non-warranty situation we got bids from several different Montana dealers as well as even a local SOB dealer. All bids came in at 6 hours of labor or more. Our original dealer finally caved to do it for 4 hours of $90 an hour labor plus all the parts cost, etc resulting in a fixed price quote in the $700 region which is consistent with what we have heard from others who have had similar work done. We received quotes as high as $1600.00 to do the same job. But on top of all that, some Montana dealers are even reluctant to do warranty repairs since doing them is not very profitable for them due to Montana limitations. They won't say no but it could take allot longer than necessary. The original dealer typically won't give you that kind of runaround. Also beware of extras or job add-ons the dealer may try to charge you while the unit is in for warranty repairs or even non-warranty repairs. Get fixed price quotes before authorizing any work.

So put on your armor and be prepared to be a tough negotiator and the best time for that is before you sign the dotted line. Just look at ii as: you need to take care of yourself because they are trying to take care of themselves. It is the only fair and reasonable approach. Negotiating is both art and science.

[sreigle]

We're on our fifth fifthwheel and third Montana. From what I've seen, Montana doesn't have any more problems than any other brand, even the highest dollar brands. The difference I've seen is how Montana stands behind their product. That's the reason we bought our second Montana in 2002 and our third in 2006.

Montana has been the number one seller for six (or is it seven now?) years in a row. There's a reason for that. Any brand can hit the jackpot ande be number one for a year or even two. But it seems to me that to put together a string like Montana's requires a good product and a good company that stands behind it. We have no regrets whatsoever about buying Montana.

[ols1932]

I agree with Steve. We've owned several RVs (tow trailers and 5th wheels) and have had problems with every one. When we purchased, we expected some problems with each one and we weren't disappointed. Every unit was what we considered "top of the line."

I must agree with another poster (Dean A Van Peursem) that the selling dealer is more appropriately going to cater to his/her customer than another dealer. Now, having said that, I was treated extremely well by Beaudry RV in Tucson, AZ back in 2004 when they did some non-warranty work on our Montana. They were extremely courteous and got us in even when they were booked up. Why? Because we were living in our unit and traveling. So, everyone has their own experiences with Montana dealers (and any other brand's dealers). We've always felt fortunate and we always go to any dealer and talk courteously to them, asking them if there is any way they can help us.

Recalling our experience with Beaudry, I believe any dealer who wants future business will treat normally treat everyone as a potential customer. Additionally, Beaudry RV called Keystone and got Keystone to cover our repairs (our unit was 4 1/2 years out of warranty). Can't ask for anything more.

Orv

[livco]

We have an 2006 3400RL and love the layout!, However, Quality...we do have a few complaints; axle/wheels seem light weight when jack-knifing (need lager/wider tires w 110psi), floor in kit/sofa slide seems to flex under each step, have replaced expansion/contraction electrical supports under 2 on the slides(broken), one 15amp circut for entire kitchen (what were you thinking there?)so..coffee pot goes on desk, toaster or grill has to go extention cord to washer closet. Awning does not cover door during rain. When towing for any lenth of time (100 miles) we get large particals of chips or saw dust on counter ??? (ceiling panels flexing ??)rear light unit with new bulb still out. cabinet door fell off during tow, had to glue toothpicks in crater left from screws ripping out partical board. Don't know if typical but need to rplace 4+ bulbs (12v)each season. Lug nuts rust. All faily minor but does question care/quality. Your thoughts ??

[ols1932]

quote:Originally posted by livco

We have an 2006 3400RL and love the layout!, However, Quality...we do have a few complaints; axle/wheels seem light weight when jack-knifing (need lager/wider tires w 110psi), floor in kit/sofa slide seems to flex under each step, have replaced expansion/contraction electrical supports under 2 on the slides(broken), one 15amp circut for entire kitchen (what were you thinking there?)so..coffee pot goes on desk, toaster or grill has to go extention cord to washer closet. Awning does not cover door during rain. When towing for any lenth of time (100 miles) we get large particals of chips or saw dust on counter ??? (ceiling panels flexing ??)rear light unit with new bulb still out. cabinet door fell off during tow, had to glue toothpicks in crater left from screws ripping out partical board. Don't know if typical but need to rplace 4+ bulbs (12v)each season. Lug nuts rust. All faily minor but does question care/quality. Your thoughts ??

I don't know that wider tires would be of any help. We have the standard LT235/85R16 tires on ours with 6-lug wheels. It doesn't seem to be any problem when jacknifing. The wheels on a 5th wheel RV will flex and seem to bend when jacknifing but they always go back into place. We never park with the wheels out of line caused when backing.

We have had a few screws strip out but the old glue/toothpick solution has worked great. Any time you have screws in particle board there is the chance of them stripping out. Is this a quality problem? Probably, but nothing too great. Having to replace bulbs? We've done that and had to do it in our stick house. Has nothing to do with quality.

Our rig, though not a 3400, also only has one circuit in the kitchen. This has never presented a problem for us in the over eight years of full timing. As for lug nuts rusting, if you are in a high salt area (northern climes and near the oceans) rusting is more prevalent. We bought our rig in Iowa and had it on the road when sand/salt was being used on icy roads, yet our lug nuts have not shown any rust. Others have experienced rust.

The sawdust specks that you see are probably from finishing the rig at Keystone and didn't get cleaned up well. We had a little of that when we first got the rig but no sign of that since full timing.

I hope these are the types of thoughts you were looking for. We've noticed during over 30 years of RVing that we always expected a lot of bugs that had to be worked out and we haven't been disappointed.

Orv

[Dean A Van Peursem]

Livco,

Montana did increase the axle rating on later 3400RL/s. Haven't noticed the floor in our kitchen slide being weak but the super slide floor sure is in our late 2006 3400RL. But after all the trouble with our ceiling on the super slide the floor issue is minor. We have made several changes to the contents in the super slide. Rotated the table 90 degrees, still can seat 4. moved the sofa bed to the rear and moved one recliner into the super slide and the other went into the stick house. Sure opens things up with allot less weight. We too have had the flat plastic cable carriers break on three slides. Dealer put in thick rubber hinges where the plastic had broken. We too would appreciate the rear awning edge being further toward the back but then it would interfere with the super slide. Haven't figured out how to solve that one. Fortunately haven't had the sawdust from the ceiling. That's amazing, something that hasn't happened to us. :-) Have had all the DC lights quit in the entertainment slide out. Found wiring bundle junction in hose compartment that had a crimped connector over wire's insulation. Really tacky. We too have had several cabinet doors fall off due to stripped hinge screws. Dealer fixed some and I've fixed some with the toothpick and glue trick. That really set me off. I think we have had only two DC lights burn out in two plus years and we spend 5 months a year in ours in AZ plus several outings in the summer here in WA. But we have also had several major water leaks and just recently had to have our black tank replaced due to a crack. Had the Apollo oven replaced under warranty and now have another problem with the replacement oven. The automatic Fantastic fan in the shower/commode ceiling area has given us allot of problems with the lid sticking. Have had it adjusted and lubed several times but now the gears finally stripped. Decals have come off and replaced. Bathroom and closet doors were over 3/4" out of square (adjusted by dealer, and the bathroom door was so warped it had to be replaced. Screws so loose they came out of the door while traveling and lost one. That caused me to go through the whole RV, inside and out, checking and tightening many screws. A significant quantity needed further tightening. Clear caulking on exterior seams was excessive and smeared all over. Have had the dealer clean up twice and more still needs to be cleaned up. Collects road dust. Haven't noticed the lug nut rusting... yet. Have had many more problems to deal with but won't go into more details. Still have the original Mission tires and they still look good with no visible cracks and wear is even but they worry me with the troubles others have had. Have been busy fixing other stuff and haven't focused on that issue yet. That may come back to haunt us since we put on about 4,000 miles a year on the RV on some roads that are in really bad shape. I5 in California between Sacramento and and the Grape Vine is in such bad shape on the outside edge of the truck lane that it just works(twists) the RV all the time. To avoid it, I tend to run close to the lane marker on the left or even in the center lane if traffic permits. This stretch is when many of the cabinet doors fell off on our first trip South. I'd take another route if I could find one that had as many flat stretches and not many more mountain passes. The nice part of the San Joaquin Valley is that it is essentially flat for 100's of miles, with only two major mountain ranges between Seattle and LA and at least 4 lanes of Interstate all the way. For the whole 1600 mile trip from our home to Apache Junction, AZ we probably have over 1550 miles of Interstate. Could go through Eastern OR, Utah and Nevada but with many more significant mountain passes. The Interstate through Eastern OR follows the old Oregon Trail and some of those passes are really nasty. One South out of Pendleton, OR is 10 miles of 6% grade plus several more nasty grades. Don't like pulling those but have done so a few times with heavily loaded equipment trailers. Might just try it this year for fun! :-) At least those Interstate roads are better and state of ID is pretty flat from OR/ID border all the way South towards SLC. But just before SLC and in Utah and NV there are many more passes. Don't like to work the truck that hard any more than we have to. We are running at rated capacity or just slightly over on the truck. So we are being vigilant so as to not push things any more than necessary. We will be heading South the early part of November for our 5 month stay in AZ. Hopefully, we will have a trip and stay this time w/o something major going wrong. Montana did not have their quality act together when they built our unit. I sure hope it has improved and our failures start to diminish.

[GregN]

When looking for a new RV. Looking at most of the other brands on the market and talking with people that owned them. The Montana is a very good line for the price. You can pay a lot more and still have problems. I have had my Montana for 2 years now. The only t 2 things that have been wrong with it are, the rechargeable flashlight that came with it did not work, fixed by the dealer and the water connection to the toilet was leaking, not tighten good enough at the factory, fixed myself. If I had to buy another RV it would be a Montana. Well unless I won the lottery, but I would just get a newer tow vehicle.

[EagleRunner]

MontyMan,
I concur with the others who have posted. Every RV out there has the potential for the same problems as those voiced on this site. When I purchased my Montana I remember finding all kinds of problems during the walk through, but then I found the same problems on other SOB units on display at the RV show too. The problem is industry wide, not just a Keystone problem. It boils down to poor quality control in most cases. In others it is a design issue, which finds it way into SOB units as well since SOB units use the same vendor for the frame. Montana's are not alone with frame flex problems.

You made a good choice to go with your Montana. Sure you will have problems here and there but Keystone does stand behind its products. Now, go out and enjoy your new Montana!