A Prospective Owner - Montana Owners Club

windquest2 · 09-21-2008, 06:36 PM

Hello to all. Currently the DW and I are living on a Sailboat in the Caribbean and plan to move back to the US and into a fiver. With this in mind, all most all of our research is via the internet, although the DW did see a Big Sky a couple of weeks ago and really liked it. My question to the forum deals with suitability of full time use. Many of the posts reveal only part time living and this will be our home for many years. We are interested in solid construction with parts suitable for long term use. (And we are not talking about the third party vendor appliances) Things like axles, brakes, frames, pin boxes, suspensions and the like. Keystone seems quite content to show the flash, but no where do we find the nitty gritty. About the only thing is the exploded view of construction materials. What are the real differences from brand to brand? And is the Big Sky really a full time unit or is a unit that you can full time in and have to replace in five or six years? We thank all of you for your help.
Henry and Beverly

Icehouse · 09-21-2008, 06:47 PM

Welcome to the forum! Bernie and I live in our Montana 3650RK year round in Alaska. We don't live in a Big Sky, but it's the same manufacturer. We are at the beginning of our second winter and I'll tell you I have no hesitations. Some of the fulltimers, live in one spot (like us) or travel all over the country. As with any brand, you will have a few issues. It is an RV after all. However, if I had to buy another fifth wheel right now, I'd go right back to the same dealer and get another Montana just like the one I have. No questions asked. This is our fourth rig and they have all been different brands. I am impressed with the Montana and the quality of workmanship. We are very comfortable in our rig and think you'll find the Montana or Big Sky to be up to par. The others will be along soon to add their praises for our rigs!

Glenn and Lorraine · 09-22-2008, 02:45 AM

Although not in a Big Sky, we are fulltimers in a Montana 3485SA. We are on our 2nd Montana in 5 years and the only reason for the 2nd Montana is that the first Montana was a 32' 2955RL. It didn't take long for us to realize the 2955 was much to small for our lifestyle. When we decided to upgrade to a larger unit we ONLY considered the Montana and no other brand. In our 5 years as fulltimers we realized that the Montana's are the biggest bang for the buck. From the bells and whistles to the quality of workmanship there was only one choice and the Keystone Customer Service department far excells most all others.
I am not saying that the Montana's are perfect but than again there is no such thing as a perfect RV. I have met folks with 1/4 to 1/2 million dollar rigs that had the same problems as the 25,000 rigs. Even the 1.5M to 2M dollar Prevost's have an equal amount of problems.
If you really want to see the nitty gritty of any RV you must take the plant tours. Any RV manufacturer can publish brochures with pretty photos but the only true picture is seeing the rigs up close and personal in the manufacturing process.
Asking "What are the real differences from brand to brand?" is like asking the difference between day and night. Every RV from one manufacturer to another, just like sailboats, have their differences. The absolutely only way to learn the differences is, again, take the plant tours and do the homework.
If and when you take the tour take your camera and take many pictures. Only one plant that we ever toured disallowed taking photos. After that tour it was evident why, the quality of walls and floors was terrible. The assembly of these same walls and floors used more glue than nuts and bolts. The exterior of the cabinets was beautiful but from an assembly point of view it was very poor workmanship.

Mrs. CountryGuy · 09-22-2008, 02:46 AM

Partial answer,

but, first, WELCOME to the forum

I believe there are only a few frame manufacturers, if you look around at the web sites for the manufacturers, you will see a lot of the names are the same.

Also, at this point, I would be looking at a manufacturer that you hope will be around for 5 to 10 years, a number of the big names in this business have kicked the bucket since the first of the year.

Next, consider any financing you must get, lucky if you don't need it, as the market is tough, (as we all know) and there is a thread here on the forum in the last week or so, states how hard it is to get a loan on a RV right now.

Big Sky or Montana or Mountaineer, all are used by long timers and full timers here on the MOC.

Start reading, this forum has great archives, and be sure to click on the Home button at the top of this page, and surf till you drop!

Cheers and good luck on your choice and your new lifestyle.

stiles watson · 09-22-2008, 05:53 AM

This is my second Big Sky. Except for the very beginning, we have always been full time in our unit. Last year, we put 7000 miles divided between the two units, about half each. This season (May to August) we put 5000 miles on the new unit. We winter in Central Texas. Whether standing or traveling, we find the unit most satisfactory for full timing.

We had a We had a major electrical event which has been difficult to determine whether it was internally caused or externally caused. Either way, the replacement of the lost appliances was completely covered by warranty.

As with a sailboat, there is routine maintenance to diligently be addressed. It is the philosophy, "If you take care of it, it takes care of you." We had a second air conditioner unit installed along with a stacked washer and dryer. I have made several small modifications to the pantry (shelving), the basement, and added triangulation stabilizers to the front landing gear and rear legs.

I am 6'2" and weigh 260 lbs. and feel as if I have room to live comfortably in our 340 RLQ Big Sky. You want to keep your ear to the ground about who is going out of business, because some companies that have made some really nice units are now out of business. At this point, Keystone seems to be sound.

bsmeaton · 09-22-2008, 07:34 AM

Welcome to the Forum!

From what we saw, the best indicator of longevity is the price tag. Kind of a pay-me-now or pay-me-later situation. You can spend 3X the cost of the Montana for a top of the line 5er that you can't tow with a standard vehicle but should last years and years based on the construction, or you can just buy one every 4-5 years based on your use. To me brand doesn't seem to mean anything, as even the top of the line manufacturers produce units at each price class now, and the construction seems to remain consistent with price rather than brand.

I would take a day and look at 5-7 year old units on the lots right now and then ask yourself if you really want to stick with the same unit that long. The styles change, the technology gets updated every 6-months, and they are just generally better units overall each year. I personally would plan on replacing a full time unit at least every five years, about like you would your car.

sunshineduo · 09-23-2008, 01:25 PM

Heh, welcome to the forum!
How cool that you're plans are kind of opposite to our own. We plan to live in the 5'er for 4 years, then move onto a sailboat

Would love to talk to you off-topic about your experiences.

windquest2 · 09-23-2008, 04:13 PM

It might be interesting, Sailboats vs. RV's! In any case you can PM me or post. I will say this, most people don't cruise much more than 3 years, I see most RV longer. We have been in the Caribbean 7 years and this should be our last. Except for the dealers who seem to care less about selling anything, buying an RV is easier than a boat. More if you ask
Henry

Hemlockusa · 09-24-2008, 02:38 PM

Why would someone give up the life of a Pirate, running around with Captain Jack for a life on the concrete HIGHWAY. Could it be, you meet more wonderful people, full of life and tall tales????????? I know SQUID don't tell tall tales, nor do they have any stories about tire failures or warranty problems.....Slides that don't work, trucks that get 6 miles to the gallon, vurse a sail that gets forever miles to the gallon... WHY?????????????????????????
BUT WELCOME TO THE FAMILY.... We can sit around a campfire and tell stories, roast marshmellos and have a few cold one's if you like. I will be waiting for you to hit the DOCK so to speak. har har har
safe travels John PS What does it feel like with a PATCH OVER YOUR EYE and a piece of CLOTH to hold your pants up??????

windquest2 · 09-24-2008, 07:03 PM

Ah and you are right, we shall meet wonderful people. As for the other reasons, let me give you a brief (maybe not so brief) insight to the cruising life style. The positives are more than the negatives, but living out of the country for 7 years brings on a whole set of problems. We have to carry all the spares for the boat. This means all the filters I need for at least a year, pump rebuild kits for the 6 water pumps and spare pumps for two others,and belts and freon, and oil for a year and head kits etc, You have a flat and pull to the side of the road, I have a leak and unless I can fix it I sink. To change the oil in one of the two engines requires me to move all the things in the engine room to the living room. A repair that takes more than a day is a real mess. I have to be able to fix everything on board, it is too expensive and most places we visit have no one that can help. There are 10 winches that need regular service and then there is the varnishing. And then there are the all nite anchor watches....when the wind blows you never have to worry you won't be in the same place in the morning, we do and a wind reversal means someone is on deck all night! So in other words, the maintenance is really getting old....I would guess on average about 15 hours a week....and you need a couple of hours to break camp, it will take us four days to get ready for a trip this Sunday of about 100 nm. (nautical miles) which we will do as an overnight. And for those 16 hours we will travel with a 15 degree tilt to our house and the DW will get seasick! The rest of the time is a blast!!!! But the other reason for leaving the water is that we only really get to see the edge of the countries we visit, with the RV we will get to see the edge and everything in between. It's just the next adventure and BTW, most who try cruising don't make it three years, so we feel great that we have had the experiances we will never forget. We look forward to seeing ya'll on the road!
Henry and Beverly

SlickWillie · 09-25-2008, 02:30 AM

Would that be a motorsailer? I'm no sailor at all, but have looked at a number of sailboats in the harbors here on the coast. We were invited aboard a nice motorsailer here in Rockport. Seems it was powered with two 50hp diesel engines. I was impressed how roomy it was. I've had the dream of converting a shrimper into a live aboard, and cruising the ICW (southern coast), but I think fuel prices have effectively awakened me.

bsmeaton · 09-25-2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by windquest2

But the other reason for leaving the water is that we only really get to see the edge of the countries we visit, with the RV we will get to see the edge and everything in between. Henry and Beverly

I don't know, after seeing all the stuff that goes on between these "edges" sometimes, I think it might be nice to see it from outside the "edge" for a while, with no radio or TV. Definately no "sheet power" for me though, strictly "stink pot".

windquest2 · 09-25-2008, 02:48 AM

Hi will, no motorsailers don't sail well, we have a 75 hp yanmar and a 9kw generator.

Waynem · 09-26-2008, 04:09 AM

Henry,
Thank you for the perspective of full time sailing. I never really gave it a thought about preparations, storage, repairs, etc. I think I like the idea of calling someone to fix a flat.

Now there would be a business to get into! Providing ocean emergency repair service. Talk about an expense!! Wow!

ken · 09-26-2008, 09:17 AM

I can't add any more to what Glenn and the rest of the guys have said. We owned two montanas and they served us well. Our first was a front living room model and found that it was too small for company visits. Our second one was a 2005 3475 model that held 13 from a reunion in the living room and still had room to move. Montana has several models out there, so choose one that suites your needs. Just remember the weight of the model has to depend on what you choose to tow with. And in the time of high diesel fuel, fuel millage is a consideration. We also live on the water here in VA and have had to move our boat to more secure moorings during recent Hurricanes.

windquest2 · 09-26-2008, 04:21 PM

Thanks Ken for reeling us back in.....To answer the tow question, we will buy a Ford F450. That will tow anything we are considering and even more. Several reasons but mostly because it has a huge safety margin and all the things we need standard, current pricing puts the F350 and 450 close with duplicate equipment. Milage is not a primary consideration. I am troubled by the fact that Montana sells the glitter, but gives very little information on construction. Is the frame a Lippert or a Youngs or is it built by Montana. Why the China tires? I had some real hope that the dealer my DW visited would have been helpful making us feel good about the Montana, instead, after 4 emails we have never heard from him again. Frustrating. The company that offers the most information about their product both past and present is NuWa. The best dealer interaction has been Heartland. The hardest to find out pricing information is Excel. I hear the argument of we will want to trade in a few years....I doubt it. the basic structure of the 5th wheel has not changed much except for the slide outs. Appliances are about the same brand to brand and are easly replaced, the same with furniture and floor covering.Leveling systems are new, and can be added to rigs, axles and brakes can be changed, but the basic build is the basic build. Each brand I mentioned has its good points and these are the brands we are considering. Our final decision is likely to be made at the Tampa show but I want to be a through as I can be before that. Simply put, my concern with Montana is quality that lasts....I don't know any other way to say it and hope you understand what I am asking. Maybe a better way is to say: Am I getting a really great unit for a great price or do you get what you pay for? Thank you all for you understanding and help....we look forward to our next adventure.
Henry

ken · 09-27-2008, 02:47 AM

The frame and hydralics is lippert and it appears to very sound. We never had any problems with either. Lippert sells to other RV manufactures in the area too. There has been some problems with the welds on some units, but its not company wide. There has also been some problems with the chinese tires. But Montana is not alone. Cedar Creek RVs are having the same problems and i'm sure the rest of the RV makers are hearing the same thing. We replaced our tires with BF Goodrich Commercials after one failed on our 2005. Glenn made a remark to go to the factory and watch them being made. Thats the best way to gage what is behind the walls of these RVs. We made two trips to Keystone and one to another rv maker before deciding on our SOB motorhome.

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