Just bought a Montana Big Sky.....help??? - Montana Owners Club

dtgundy · 12-22-2009, 03:15 PM

We bought the 365 REQ and now we need to buy a pickup. Please advise!

exav8tr · 12-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Teddi, You need to define your type of RVing. If Fulltiming you need to figure max weights for your trailer. That means the biggest diesel available, If you will only be using weekend and short trips you will learn to travel lighter and may get by with a lighter truck. A one ton dually would be ideal but a one ton single rear wheel unit would work well also. I would make sure of two things; 1) a One ton truck and 2) a diesel for sure. You might be able to get by with a V-10 but that would depend on where you plan on going, flatlands or mountains.....Others will be along to give their advice. Remember we all have opinions and some better and stronger than others. I started out with a 3/4 ton Chevy diesel and converted to the bigger one ton dually. Haven't regretted that move at all...... Make sure it is a pretty one also!!!

hookman · 12-22-2009, 03:35 PM

Depending on the weight any of the 3 truck makes will do the job. I pull with a 3500 Dodge Ram 3500 auto with 4:10's as you can see. I like the Cummins but all 3 have their followers. It depends on what you prefer but try them all then decide.

Art-n-Marge · 12-22-2009, 03:57 PM

The GTWR on the 365 REQ is 16,180. Yet, the spec says the pin weight is 2,180. Wrong!!! Your rig after loading up will have 18% to 25% of the GTWR or 2,914 to 4,045 lbs on the pin! This rules out all 3/4 tons and probably most 1 tons with single rear wheels (probably all 1 ton SRWs but I haven't checked recently and there just might be one that can take the weight).

That said, I'd recommend a dually. You MUST check the pillar door for its RAWR, GVWR and check the owner's guide for the CGVWR and 5er tow weight rating. Consider that while the pin weight might be as much as 4,000lbs you also have to add the actual weight of the fifth wheel hitch that is capable of carrying the weight especially if it includes an air system of any kind on the trailer pin or the 5er hitch. Then you must add cargo you carry in the truck bed, such as an auxiliary fuel tank, tool box(es), and other gear. Then hope you have a lot left over for whatever you put in the truck's cab, including you and your passengers. A dually Ford F-350 or F-450, a Chevy/GMC 3500, or a Dodge 3500 and whatever it is, get diesel - you'll appreciate the torque. I highly recommend 4x4 as well to get you out of an occasional tough campsite after some very precipitous weather.

If you anything left over and you plan to use the truck for other things, I'd recommend an underbed 5th wheel hitch that can be removed from the truck bed to leave it flat. Otherwise you have the bed rails in the way. In either case, you'll probably need an 18K or higher rated fifth wheel hitch. Don't get a 16K, it's too light!

Congratulations on a beautiful new rig!

firetrucker · 12-22-2009, 04:06 PM

Dare I mention an HDT or MDT, which would eliminate all the figuring and make an excellent riding, safe tow vehicle? And an HDT would cost half as much as a tricked out diesel dually.

Bob

Fredtp · 12-22-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by firetrucker

Dare I mention an HDT or MDT, which would eliminate all the figuring and make an excellent riding, safe tow vehicle? And an HDT would cost half as much as a tricked out diesel dually.

Bob

Where can you get a new HDT for 30k? I want to go get one.

wingerphil · 12-22-2009, 10:56 PM

yep, what Firetrucker said. Not for everyone but makes a great tow vehicle!!

ole dude · 12-22-2009, 11:52 PM

Don't believe Firetrucker ment a new HDT, however lots of good used ones out there for the price he mentioned and they do make good T V.

adelmoll · 12-23-2009, 01:08 AM

We have a Big Sky and pull it with a F350 without any problems.. We were in the Colorado Rockys with it and did very well... However.. We would feel much more comfortable if we had either a one ton dully with at least 4.10 or a F450 as we know we are fulltimers and carry a lot with us.

Helen

mcgiver2 · 12-23-2009, 02:23 AM

We have a 2009 montana 3605 and we pull with a chev 3500 dually and any of the big 3 will do just fineand of course one of the BIG HDT or MDT would be good but thats alot of truck for me .........and Congraulation on your new Camper we hope you enjoy it and have fun

8e3k0 · 12-23-2009, 02:42 AM

Congratulations on your new purchase, they are a beautiful 5th wheel! With the weight and accessories of the Big Sky you will need at least a 1 ton dually for, safety, reliability and stability. If your pin weight climbs above 3200 and have a lot of personal items in the truck you may need to go with a heavier truck, especially if your pulling the Camper the majority of the days in each year. Take your time and try all three, compare, compare, and compare. Your Dealer will be very important in this decision. Try and get a good truck sale person and not a cars salesperson. It will be your truck with the options that you want and not what someone has on the lot that may not meet your needs. Hard to may changes with options once you take delivery of that new truck!

richfaa · 12-23-2009, 05:38 AM

I can tell you this.. at 16,180lbs my 08 F-350 6.4l,CC,LB,4X4, 4:10 diff is not enough truck. My 5th wheel tow rating is 15,500lbs. I would be OK on pin weight. The tow boss package(4:30 diff) would bring the tow rating up to within spec's. Take a good look at truck spec's before you purchase one.... We pulled this 06 3400 with a Ford V-10 and it did OK...but..we now have a 08 6.4 Diesel and would recommend one.

TLightning · 12-23-2009, 07:07 AM

The only way to go, unless you'll be doing very little traveling, is a diesel dually. If doing very little traveling, a big V8 gasser would work okay...just not as well as the diesel.

pbahlin · 12-23-2009, 01:11 PM

I'm currently in the same situation, new owner of a Big Sky and no truck. I've been waffling between an HD and a dually one ton for about 4 months.

One thing that is currently pulling me towards a one ton is lifetime cost. Here's why....

I can get a pretty solid HDT with 500k - 700k miles on it for something like $30,000. Sounds like a lot of miles until you realize these rigs can go 2,000,000 miles, especially when they're pulling just 16k lbs.

A new dually will go for about $50,000 if it's really tricked out. I like the 2010 Dodge when I go waffling. It can get 20 mpg bobtailed and 10 mpg towing. The HDT will get something like 11 mpg no matter whether it's towing or not. HDTs are heavy so bobtailing is still moving a lot of weight.

Since I intend to full time and use my TV as a daily driver, my fuel costs over 10 years or so will be considerably less with the dually than with the HDT (my mpg doubles when bobtailed with the one ton Dodge). If you work out the numbers, the fuel savings over ten years is about equal to the cost differential in the trucks. Plus, with the new Dodge you get a new vehicle warranty and potentially less maintenance costs over ten years than with the HDT which will be 20 years old at the end of the ten year period.

The Big Sky weight is right on the margins for a one ton. Mine is stickered at 16535 GVWR. The 2010 Ram 3500 dually with towing package has a GCWR of 25400 and a curb weight of 6300. This means you have 25400 - 16535 - 6300 = 2565 for passengers, hitch, dogs, fuel, toys, and dead bugs. For me, all of that stuff comes to about 1500 lbs so I figure I'll have about 1565 left over if I go with the Dodge.

The Big Sky is almost too light to justify using an HDT and too heavy for the one ton.

When you throw in the standard air brake, 52 gallon tank, integrated tow package, and way cool looks of the 2010, it makes me go hmmmmm???

richfaa · 12-23-2009, 01:45 PM

GCVW is 25,400lbs.. The GCW of the big sky is 16,535 ... 25,400 less 16,535 is 8865lbs. So you have 8865lbs left for the truck and everything in it. 6300+ 1500=7800lbs 8865-7800= 1065lbs..margin..You are good if you can hold those numbers(and you should)... I would still weigh that truck ready to tow. The listed curb weight on my ford did not match the actual weight of the truck right off the dealers lot. By a bunch. Those are good numbers .I did not know the Dodge Spec's. That 25,400lbs is nearly that of the big Ford with Tow boss package (26,000) My Ford weighs 9250lbs ready to tow. The Dodge is a lot less and that is a good thing. The big sky is to much for my Ford..

We looked all over the country for a suitable HDT when be were buying this 3400 and could not find one. I wish we had looked harder.

I know your numbers said the same thing.I arranged them in a manner that was easy for me to understand..

HamRad · 12-23-2009, 01:48 PM

Pbahlin,
If I could get a 2010 totally tricked out Dodge at the $50K figure you mentioned then I'd probably go that route. The prices I've seen were considerably more than that!

I have a Ford 450 PSD and pull a 2002 model 3295. It weighs about 13K and is rated for 14,400. We do not FullTime.... just do some Long Time RVing. We stepped up from a Ford PSD 250 and we are very satisfied with the upgrade. However if given the opportunity I'd jump at a chance to pull the trailer with a HDT!

While I'm happy enough with the 450 I'd love to never have to worry about whether or not I've got enough power to easily and safely transit ANY grade out there. Besides the power THE most important feature of an HDT is its stopping power. And pulling no more than a Big Sky or a regular Montana you are going to be able to pull and stop safely in almost any condition.

The HDTs I've seen are used but still have many thousands of miles left on them and are in great condition.

I'm not going to get in a discussion on fuel mileage but double the mileage between pulling loaded vs not pulling seems a bit high. Still the Dodge would be better mileage not towing than the HDT.

Whatever you do err on the side of too much truck rather than just adequate. Best of luck and let us know what you end up doing. Welcome to the MOC world.

exav8tr · 12-23-2009, 01:51 PM

pbahlin, I do not have a Dodge, but 6300 lbs sure sounds a little light. I think I would have to check that number. My '05 Chevy 2500 Duramax weighed 6700 lbs unloaded. Have you thought about an MDT? I have seen many of these around towing these monsters. I think the drawback is having to make an MDT or Class 8 my daily driver. I have even thought of an HDT with a ramp on the side for a Smart car as I have seen, but the Smart car is WAY TOO small for me, DW and furry friend......I think, if I had a heavier trailer such as the Big Sky or the new Alpine, I would consider a Ford 450 or 550, possibly with a 4:10 rear end. If Chevy or Dodge had something like this it would be a no brainer for me. I can't see being a Beta tester for Fords new engines.....Now, IF Ford had a 7.3 power stroke in a 450 or 550, then WOZZZZZAAA!!!

pbahlin · 12-23-2009, 11:23 PM

RE: doubts on truck weight...

I completely agree. One of the real frustrations of the pickup world is the (I think anyway) deliberate fudging and obscuring of specs. I've found it almost impossible to get a curb weight from Dodge. The number I found was from a Google search and came from some obscure truck magazine. I don't even remember which one.

All of the pickup mfgs play a game with GVWR, GCWR, and 'towing' rating. No tow rating is based upon GVWR. They're all based on variations of a basically empty truck and they don't readily publish how they do it or what assumptions they're making.

The Dodge I spoke of is rated at 18,000 lbs 'tow' rating. If you subtract this from GCWR you get 7,400 lbs. which is not a number you'll find anywhere in the Dodge literature. For all I know this is a truck with a 125 lb driver, 10 gals. of diesel and a few bugs on the hood. Grrrrrrr.

Is the Dodge that much lighter than the Ford? If it is, what does this say about how they got that weight out? I've heard that one of the reasons for Ford's lower mileage is mostly attributable to the extra weight. Who knows?

I suspect that mfgs think we're either too stupid to figure this stuff out on our own, or (more likely) they want to fool as many customers as possible.

How is it possible for a mfg to stamp weights on a VIN tag under a federal mandate that is not accurate? I just don't get it. There's more accurate information on my Cheerios box!

pbahlin · 12-23-2009, 11:40 PM

I forgot to mention that one of the specs that Dodge is pumping now is something called 'cargo weight'. What the heck is this? Is it stuff in the back? Is it stuff in the back plus stuff in the cab? Does it include fuel or other fluids? Who knows?

It might be simply GVWR minus curb weight. That would be sweet but they don't ever define it so I'm reluctant to use it for anything.

IF I use it in a mindless sort of way I could assume...

GCWR 25400 - Tow Rating 18000 - Cargo Weight 5100 = Curb Weight 2300 lbs.

Ooops, seems a bit light, eh? Nothing adds up until you get on a scale and then it's too late. I'm going to go to a dealer and propose a deal, "If I buy the truck from you, Mister Obfuscator, I want 30 days to weigh my stuff, and if it doesn't fit I don't commit."

H. John Kohl · 12-24-2009, 12:42 AM

There are a lot of good points in this topic. pbahlin, you are thinking the same lines I am if I upgrade.
I have logged the fuel milage on my 03 Dodge since I got it. I am averaging 13.5 mpg for 91,000 miles. I see about 10 towing and 17 to 18 empty. I think the newer Dodge may do a little better empty.
If you consider going the 2010 Dodge 3500 look at buying it without the pickup bed. Buy the commercial version. I am told the frame is more solid and the duals do not stick out as far. With the pickup bed they have to push the duals out farther to get the 4 foot clearance between wheel wells. Of course if you get the commercial cab and chaise then you will have to get a nice looking RV box for the back.
I am still leaning towards the MDT because it has the beef to pull something larger if I ever found the "sweet" deal on a Mountain Air (24K weight) or Mobile Suits (18K).
I am sure any way you go you will be happy but buying a truck that is maxed at its weight specs does not leave you any room to grow.
My dad told me I had all the truck I needed when I bought my 3/4 ton diesel. Well I now have 1 ton and still at the max. Oh well kids and their toys.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.

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