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Old 06-09-2021, 04:41 PM   #1
RetiredandRollin
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ATS/Working with Keystone

Hello,
Hope everyone is doing good during this post COVID19 camping season. Looking for advise from you seasoned veterans. We have a 2021 Montana 3791RD Legacy that we took delivery of in January of this year. Last week, after a 6 day outing everything on the 120v side of the house quit working. I diagnosed it as the ATS going bad which obviously was still under warranty. It was a Progressive Dynamics ATS which the dealer advised was obsolete and Keystone was now installing a Southwire product. The Southwire ATS provided by Keystone rendered my remote display next to my in command system basically useless; they are not compatible. So basically, the coach is up and running fine now but I have a remote display inside the coach that doesn't work. I researched Southwire and come to find out they offer an ATS that has a remote display however Keystone is refusing to install that one, they choose the cheaper Unit. Has anyone had issues dealing with Keystone with this type of item or any for that matter? Advise?
 
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Old 06-09-2021, 06:30 PM   #2
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We had our ATS fail almost right out of the gate. Your story sounds like an exact replay of how ours expired. We (a mobile tech with keystone approval) bypassed it by moving the incoming wires over to the generator side until the needed repair could be effected. We were on a serious time crunch due to a death in the family. It was some back and forth but Keystone finally addressed it to my satisfaction. Unless you have the onboard generator the ATS is actually sorta pointless. With a portable plugged into your 50amp cord through an adapter the ATS cannot tell the difference between shore and generator. However in our situation I am going to wire up a new front exterior port for a 30amp plug that will connect to the OEM wiring for the generator prep package so I can plug in our portable genset there for the days we want to move and keep the rig cool or warm while towing as our genset is stored in the bed of our truck. Will work great for overnight parking lot stops too. It will be less of an issue when we get the solar installed though. But I digress.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:36 PM   #3
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Yes, I do have an on-board generator which actually saved me because once I realized it was the shore side that went bad, I switched the shore line to the generator side until I could get to the dealer. Exactly what you described.
The problem I'm having with Keystone is the fact that they switched manufactures, from PD to Southwire, and what they are offering as a replacement makes the remote panel obsolete. My unit is 5 months old and clearly within the warranty period and it's my belief, I could be wrong, that if a quality equal replacement exist within the new manufacture you are now doing business with, then you should make your customer whole by replacing Apple's with Apples. In their words, "Yea, that's what we're installing now so yes that remote display will no longer work-related just disregard it all together,". I'm not even sure at this point, am I being unreasonable?
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:47 PM   #4
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I'd press the issue. We don't have your issue since we did not need the ATS because we do not have the onboard genset, just the prep package. But the failed ATS had the surge protection features and we were able to get Keystone to, in effect, help cover part of the cost of an EMS which takes over the surge protection functions and then some of that in the failed ATS. No, we were not made 100% for our out of pocket expense, but good enough. For you I would say an apples to apples repair was in order by Keystone.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:58 PM   #5
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Manny,

Do you know the price difference for the unit that will support your remote display? What does the remote display provide for you that you are missing?
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:12 PM   #6
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The factory installed remote display that came with the PD ATS is a simple 3 light display; indicates if you're on gen, shore or error. It's not a huge deal, but none-the-less, it's what I paid for. The Southwire unit they are offering as a replacement has nothing and is not compatible with their version of a remote display add-on. The next one offered in succession is compatible with the remote display. I do not know what the retail price difference is, but I can find out.

I am pressing the issue, I had customer service escalate the call and am currently waiting for someone higher in the food chain to call me back; that was as of two days ago. Nothing yet. I actually selected Keystone to purchase because of good reviews on customer service. I'm not totally disappointed yet; but I'm also not jumping for joy.
I appreciate the feedback from you guys and will keep you posted on the final disposition.
Safe travels
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Old 06-09-2021, 09:34 PM   #7
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Manny,

I would keep pressing. Knowing the price difference could help.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:30 PM   #8
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Following up....

First things first, the price difference on what they are currently installing to what they should be installing to make it an apples to apples replacement is about $420 bucks.

Bottom line is, what they are replacing it with get's you up and running, however your remote display is no longer good. My argument is if this were to have happened to us 2 years after purchase than I really wouldn't have a leg to stand on. It's only been 5 months and apparently the only leg I had was just kicked out from under me.

I just got off the phone with customer service and I was told, and I quote, "As far as we're concerned this issue is closed, that's the part we're installing and we're done here". The funny part, actually it wasn't funny at all, I asked to speak to a supervisor and they said "NO". Not kidding, straight up no, they even refused to give me the name of the supervisor.

The good news is that I'm kinda new to the Montana family and definitely new to this forum so it was endearing to actually have some folks to vent with. Thank you.

If anyone has had similar problems with Keystone and had a different approach, do share, I'm all ears.
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Old 06-10-2021, 02:54 PM   #9
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Surge protection

Quote:
Originally Posted by RetiredandRollin View Post
Hello,
Hope everyone is doing good during this post COVID19 camping season. Looking for advise from you seasoned veterans. We have a 2021 Montana 3791RD Legacy that we took delivery of in January of this year. Last week, after a 6 day outing everything on the 120v side of the house quit working. I diagnosed it as the ATS going bad which obviously was still under warranty. It was a Progressive Dynamics ATS which the dealer advised was obsolete and Keystone was now installing a Southwire product. The Southwire ATS provided by Keystone rendered my remote display next to my in command system basically useless; they are not compatible. So basically, the coach is up and running fine now but I have a remote display inside the coach that doesn't work. I researched Southwire and come to find out they offer an ATS that has a remote display however Keystone is refusing to install that one, they choose the cheaper Unit. Has anyone had issues dealing with Keystone with this type of item or any for that matter? Advise?
Hello,
I'll send you a PM. But the displays you are comparing are far different. If my information is correct, the PD display was a basic light that notified you if a surge occurred. The Southwire version that are refereeing has a readout that provides much more information. Which in turn increases the cost drastically.

I'll look into if there is a light similar to what you had for the Southwire. We can discuss the details through our PM and then update this thread.
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:12 PM   #10
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Yes, you are correct 100%, they are different as in what they display. Southwire has what they are now installing which has NO remote display at all and then the next one up is a more informative remote display. My simple argument is, a warranty replacement should be equal or better, it’s unethical to go backwards. In layman’s term, if I sell you a car with a Bluetooth enabled radio and it breaks the replacement SHOULD have Bluetooth. If that replacement with Bluetooth also NOW comes with CD or Digital Display, that’s on them. You shouldn’t tell the customer, “Hey, the replacement only has FM/AM”. Right ? Not sure, is my argument unreasonable.

I’m not sure about the PM thingy you mentioned, I probably screwed this up. Lol
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Old 06-10-2021, 03:33 PM   #11
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If you still have the original PD, you might call Progressive Dynamics and see if they will warranty the unit. Most of these type of things are plug and play and fairly easy to replace.
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:03 PM   #12
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Yeah, Iím pretty good around a tool box, which is how I diagnosed the problem within 5 minutes. But the repair, that would probably void my warranty, Iím thinking not sure, so for now Iíll stick with my dealer who has been nothing short of phenomenal since I bought my unit.
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Old 06-10-2021, 05:18 PM   #13
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Iím not sure about the PM thingy you mentioned, I probably screwed this up. Lol
The PM thingy is a Private Message. It would be hard to screw it up. The link to them is in the upper right hand corner of each MOC page. You will also receive an email reminding you of a PM waiting for you. Click on the Private Message part of the display to see any messages. This is what it looks like
Name:  MOC - PM Link.jpg
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Old 06-10-2021, 06:31 PM   #14
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I called Progressive direct. they sent me a rebuilt unit exactly as the unit that failed.
If I would have had a choice between a rebuilt Progressive unit or a new Southwire, I would have taken the Southwire. Those 3 lights that you are worried about don't do anything. I think I can figure out if I'm on generator or shorepower.
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Old 06-10-2021, 07:49 PM   #15
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I just did a first look at my just-arrived 3120RL Legacy, and found there isn't the 3 LED panel I have seen when I looked at in-stock units before ordering mine Feb 26th.

I assume that I have the upgrade to the Southwire ATS, but not sure if the readout Sam mentioned is on the In-Command, or I just failed to see a display in either entry way cabinets. I would love to know where it is at, if it is not in the In Command unit. It would be a great find if I got the better ATS, but assume the Southwire also has the Surge protection I believe the Legacy mentions. If not, I need to get one. I believe everything was in the 4-gang sized metal box I have seen images of from those that bypassed their ATS while on the road.

Thanks Sam for any help

Allen
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Old 06-10-2021, 08:41 PM   #16
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I assume the new Southwire ATS / surge protector is this unit:

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ansfer-switch/

If you open the operating instructions it shows what I believe is the optional display. I do not recall seeing it in my Montana

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Old 06-13-2021, 01:16 PM   #17
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While I respect your input, it really wasn’t about worrying about 3 lights. It was about buying, owning, those 3 lights you mention, and then being told 5 months after purchasing, “We don’t care about your 3 lights, this is what you’re getting as a warranty replacement and you’ll like it”. None-the-less, I respect your opinion. I have an update on my issue; stand by.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemiallen View Post
I assume the new Southwire ATS / surge protector is this unit:

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ansfer-switch/

If you open the operating instructions it shows what I believe is the optional display. I do not recall seeing it in my Montana

Allen
Hello Allen,
To answer your question I offer the following. That unit you depicted IS NOT what Keystone is now installing. I should say, at least thatís not what they sent me as a warranty replacement. The one they sent me was the Surge Guard #41261. The SG #41261 unit does have the built in Surge Protection, but no remote display.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hemiallen View Post
I just did a first look at my just-arrived 3120RL Legacy, and found there isn't the 3 LED panel I have seen when I looked at in-stock units before ordering mine Feb 26th.

I assume that I have the upgrade to the Southwire ATS, but not sure if the readout Sam mentioned is on the In-Command, or I just failed to see a display in either entry way cabinets. I would love to know where it is at, if it is not in the In Command unit. It would be a great find if I got the better ATS, but assume the Southwire also has the Surge protection I believe the Legacy mentions. If not, I need to get one. I believe everything was in the 4-gang sized metal box I have seen images of from those that bypassed their ATS while on the road.

Thanks Sam for any help

Allen
Allen,
The unit Sam referenced in my post is the SG #40450RVC3 which is a much higher upgrade, thatís not what Keystone is now installing. If you do not see a 3 light display in your cabinet then you definitely have the SG #41261, which DOES NOT HAVE ANY TYPE OF REMOTE DISPLAY and is what Keystone is now installing. It does however, still have the Surge Protection internally installed.
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Old 06-13-2021, 01:42 PM   #20
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Update……
But first, let me publicly thank Sam (Mootana) who stepped in with some guidance and assistance.

Now to the update. I was notified by Keystone that they would be sending me a Remote Display panel, which Southwire specifically designed, to be added to the SG #41261. I will let you all know how that goes, but for now I will remain positive.

I only have one concern, it is an add-on to a unit not originally engineered to have one, so the installation will be interesting. The Progressive Dynamics unit was a plug and play, but who cares it already broke, I will advise on how this one is installed as soon as it arrives.

Safe travels to all and again thank you Sam (Mootana)
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