Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 

Go Back   Montana Owners Club - Keystone Montana 5th Wheel Forum > GENERAL DISCUSSIONS > Tow Vehicles & Towing
Click Here to Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-12-2009, 11:11 AM   #1
drknapp
Montana Fan
 
drknapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redlands
Posts: 460
M.O.C. #9135
Question regarding towing

I was looking into purchasing a 2955RL to tow with my '07 2500 CC SB 4x4 Duramax. (I currently tow a 27' SOB). According to my loading sticker, my truck can carry 2215 lbs. The Dry Pin weight of this trailer is 1805lbs. So I would be over by a bit with people, fuel and such.

My understanding is that my truck has all of the same as a 3500 SRW except for springs (I already have the E rated tires) in fact the GCWR for the trucks are close to being the same (22000). The big difference is in the GVWR between the trucks.

So, my question is will my truck be ok with air bags for this particular trailer or should I give up on a Montana until I get a 3500 dually.
 
__________________
2011 3150RL
drknapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 11:34 AM   #2
FLSTS03
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 279
M.O.C. #8231
Hey Dave, I won't be a lot of help as I don't tow as much as I would like too. I have a friend though w/ an 06 2500 and is not worried one little bit about towing a 05 3380rl which is a heavy Montana. I went with a dually because I felt better with a set of training wheels. Personal choice for me. I will have to say that same friend now pulls with a 08 F350 SRW and loves the built in brake controller.

Welcome to the Fourm,

Steve
FLSTS03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 12:21 PM   #3
HughM
Montana Master
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Weeki Wachee
Posts: 814
M.O.C. #7219
Dave, I had a 298RLS about the same weight as yours. I also pulled with a 2500 CC SB Duramax. CAT scales and I agreed that you will have no problem towing, flats, mountains or were ever you pull.
People use to say "How does that Duramax pull with that trailer" I would tell them that it was bad for the trailer. Why? "When I take off fast it yanks the trailer out from under the decals and I have to go back and pick the decals up!!" Believe it or not some believed me.
You won't have a problem pulling a 2955RL with you 2007 Duramax.
Hugh
HughM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:07 PM   #4
HamRad
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
Welcome to the MOC Forum.

Pulling is important but stopping safely is even more important.

HamRad
HamRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 01:30 PM   #5
drknapp
Montana Fan
 
drknapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redlands
Posts: 460
M.O.C. #9135
Thanks for the welcome.

From my understanding. The 2500HD has the same brakes as the 3500HD. So hopefully, that won't be a problem.
__________________
2011 3150RL
drknapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 03:23 PM   #6
ols1932
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 4,876
M.O.C. #1944
We talk about this a lot. You can pull the Montana with your truck. I do, however there is a safety problem that comes with it. The bigger the truck the easier it is to stop when you come upon a panic situation. I believe that it's important for those of us who tow with a 3/4 ton truck to drive very defensively. By that I mean to maintain a very good distance between you and the traffic ahead. When someone cuts in front of you, back off to regain the "safe" distance. But remember that there is no real "safe" distance when a panic situation arises.

I try to watch the road at least 1/2 mile ahead and observe flashing tail lights. This is a pretty good indication that there may be something in the traffic ahead that's worth keeping an eye open for.

We who have a 3/4 ton truck for a tow vehicle all say we can pull any Montana; especially when you have the big diesel engine and 4.10 rear end. But remember again, it's stopping that you want to be aware of.

Sorry I made this so long but I don't want anyone to think that a person should run right out and buy a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. If you have to buy a tow vehicle, go for an F-350 (or GM or Dodge equivalent) or even larger. My next truck, if I get one, will be at least one ton.

Orv
ols1932 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 03:39 PM   #7
padredw
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ore City Texas
Posts: 1,648
M.O.C. #2224
Send a message via Skype™ to padredw
drknapp, this is my experience: We towed a 2955RL over 50,000 miles including regular trips to Colorado and New Mexico in the mountains and we never had a minutes trouble with our Chevrolets--first a 2500 gasoline and then a 2500 Duramax/Allison. == No trouble pulling the hills, no trouble going down, and no trouble stopping even in sudden need. Just my experience. We had no addition to suspension, all stock and no additions to engines.
padredw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2009, 04:55 PM   #8
Clyde n Deb
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Highlands Ranch
Posts: 464
M.O.C. #3477
Running the same configuration. This will be our fifth season. No problems. As stated, with any combination, you have to drive smart and consider what you;re driving. Airbags are your choice. I don't have them, those that do seem to like them.
Clyde n Deb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 04:02 AM   #9
Pete Hanson
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Concord
Posts: 575
M.O.C. #3543
We pull a 2955RL with a RAM 2500 stock diesel and have no issues as far as towing or stopping is concerned. I think that if you have the trailer brake controller set up properly your stopping distance is not greatly affected by the size of the truck. Certainly a dually might stop quicker due to more rubber on the road but other than that I don't think the truck size makes much difference. I'm certainly not an engineer or expert.....just a gut feeling.
Pete Hanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 05:17 AM   #10
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
No one has mentioned the manufacturer's ratings and specifications so I will. Note what they are for the particular truck then do what you think is the right thing. There is no doubt these diesel motors will pull any Montana. There is also no doubt that many 3/4 ton trucks will fall within the manufacturer's specifications to tow a specific Camper... It may be a good thing to know which do and which don't. We are of the group that believe that the manufacture's rating and spec's are there for good reason and choose to stay within them or at least understand them.
richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 06:04 AM   #11
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
I am not sure about GM but Ford and Dodge both have identical brakes in both the 3/4 and 1 ton models. Single rear wheel, anyhow. Since the 3/4 ton is slightly lighter weight those identical brakes would be a bit more effective with the 1 ton.

Do the duallys have six wheels with brakes or brakes on four wheels? If six, then the dually would likely stop better. If four, then the 3/4 ton still stops better (lighter weight). In theory, anyhow.

We've towed with single rear wheel 1 ton Ford and Dodge and an F250. I see no difference whatsoever in stopping ability. However, that 2005 F250 had bigger brakes than the 2004 and earlier F350 so that's another factor. Not size of truck but size of brakes, vehicle weights, etc.

Drknapp, some here will disagree with me, but I have done what you want to do, but with Ford and Dodge. About 35,000 of our more than 100,000 miles of towing Montanas (2003 3295RK and 2007 3400RL, scaling 14,320 and 14,620 respectively) were with the F250. I would not hestitate whatsoever in doing it again. Airbags will level the truck. Others here will vehemently disagree with me and the many others doing what I've done and am doing. So be it. Both my Ford dealer's parts and service guys and a retired Ford diesel engineer friend tell me the difference between the F250 and F350 is one more leaf in the spring and a sway bar on the rear. I don't know about GM.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 06:51 AM   #12
HamRad
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 5,316
M.O.C. #15
We owned a Ford SD 250 PSD. It was our first diesel rig. We got it to tow the Montana. A year later we bought the trailer. Actually we were not planning on buying the Montana. We were looking at a lighter rig.

Of course the RV dealership folks all said you have more than enough truck to pull the trailer. Of course they were right. Aren't they always! They were right except for the fact that the nose of the truck stuck up in the air. They were right except for the fact that the rear of the truck went WAY DOWN. If I pulled at night EVERY vehicle I met would flash their headlights at me wanting me to dim my lights. Of course my lights were already on dim!

Did I always stop easily and safely? Well I never hit anyone or anything else so I guess I was safe. Did I feel I had complete and good control all the time? NO! The Montana was simply too much trailer for my truck. Several times when doing a 'quick' stop the "Tail ended up wagging the dog". Like I said I never lost it completely and hit anyone or anything else but it was obvious to me that I did not have the control I felt I needed.

Also I had two transmissions replaced. I'm not going to blame the truck for this since this was my first pulling of a trailer on an ongoing basis. I suspect that between the somewhat overloaded rear axle (actually I think I was within a hundred pounds of being 'legal') and my inexperience played a part in the transmission problems.

Driving on I-5 going from Bakersfield to Mt. Shasta every time I would go up an overpass the tranny would start searching for the proper gear if I was in cruise control. This was in the 7.3 liter engine and the 3.73 rear end.

We were to the point that I felt we needed either to get a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. The DW said we were NOT going to get a smaller trailer. So started looking for a larger truck. At the time the 350s actually had LESS towing capability than the 250. This, of course, has changed. Now the 350s are rated for much more.

We ended up with a Ford SD 450 PSD. Same 7.3 engine and same transmission as the previous 250. We do have a different rear end. We have the 4.88. We have never had the cruise control problem we had in the 250. And "the tail was no longer wagging the dog". When I do a 'quick' stop now I do not have that loss of control feeling I had previously with the 250. Also the truck does not 'squat' like the 250 did. When I load the Monty now the truck bed drops maybe an inch! Carl of Carl and Susan was watching us load the other day and said to me that he could not see the truck bed go down at all. I no longer have the dim lights situation as I did with the 250.

Was it 'overkill' getting the 450? Could be but I now feel much safer. The trucks that most folks pull with now a days are very much better than they were just a few short years ago. I suspect a newer 250 would do much better than the one I had. And the competition comparable trucks are just as or are more capable!

My real objective is to pull with a rig like Big Red that FireTrucker drives. Now that would make we feel really safe!

So I've been at both ends of the "towing" issue. My 250 did not make me feel safe. Pulling and stopping with the 450 makes me feel much safer. Your experience will be YOUR experience. If you feel safe pulling your Montana with a 150 then go for it. It will be YOUR experience. And any trailer salesman will tell you that you have more than enough truck to pull it with. And if you do pull with a 150 post your time and route so I can avoid that area.

Thanks,

HamRad
HamRad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 08:12 AM   #13
azleflyer
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Azle
Posts: 615
M.O.C. #9140
I have air bags on my '04 TV, but they are not designed to carry/tow/haul more weight than my TV is rated. I use them for the softer ride. They do help in keeping the front end firmly planted on the ground which greatly improves the handling along with the front end stabilizer.
azleflyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 09:46 AM   #14
Glenn and Lorraine
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 10,917
M.O.C. #420
All I will say is "My first TV was an 03 Chev 2500HD with the D/A combo. I pulled my 04 2955RL for 2 years. I than moved up to an 05 GMC 2500HD and still no problems pulling or stopping the 2955RL. I now have an 07 3485SA and still using the 05 GMC I have yet to experience any towing problems. Since October of 03, when we started fulltiming, we have put on well over 100,000 miles towing. During this time we traveled all over the east coast and mid west. 2 Years ago we went from Florida to northern NY to northern Calif. Up and over many many mountain roads in both the Appalachians and the Rockies. The TV performed flawlessly. Over these same years we had numerous panic situations and not once did either 2500HD cause me any alarm when it came to getting to a safe stop."
Glenn and Lorraine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 10:03 AM   #15
jjackflash
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hesperia
Posts: 1,321
M.O.C. #7787
I have the 3500HD Dually GMC,good friends that travel with us have the same truck as mine except it's a 3/4 single wheel. A couple of times he has mention over the radio how the wind was really blow them around and at that time I felt no wind at all,he says he gets blown around when a semi passes him. The Dually seems to be more stable.
Jack
jjackflash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 10:22 AM   #16
MacDR50
Montana Fan
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: St Johns
Posts: 434
M.O.C. #7691
A 2500 GM HD and a 3500 GM SRW are identical except for the spring package. I can't speak for other brands but I suspect the same is true. The biggest limiting factor on loading the stock GM 2500 is the 245 tires which have only a 3015# capacity. The dually is the same truck with the same capacity axle and spring set as the 3500SRW. The load difference is the two extra tires. No extra brakes. The big difference is the sideways stability of those two extra tires. This is really important for TT's but less so for 5th wheels as they exert their sway at a point forward of the rear axle and do not have the leverage of the distance from the hitch point and the centre of the rear axle that the TT's do. Rear sag can be controlled with airbags or Timbrens or the installation of a helper spring. Sway can be reduced by insuring that the PIN weight is about 20% of the actual trailer weight. Buy a brake controller with a boost option so that the trailer brakes come on a bit before and a bit more than the TV's.
MacDR50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 11:06 AM   #17
sreigle
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
Good point on the GM tires. My F250 came with LT265 in 17 inch, same as in the F350 except the F350 has an option for bigger tires yet.

I've felt wind, but nothing bothersome. Semis I only feel when they interrupt side winds and even then it's nothing to worry about. I guess different trucks have different characteristics. I don't tow nose high. I had airbags on the F250 to provide a level ride. Maybe the difference is both Montanas we towed with these trucks had heavy pinweights, possibly providing a bit more stability. I don't know for sure but it makes sense. We had a lighter Montana, a 2001 2880RK but we didn't fulltime with it, just weekends and vacations, so didn't accumulate 100k plus miles like we have with the heavier two Montanas.

Roger thanks for the info on the dually brakes. I can see where a dually provides more rubber on the ground and therefore more stability. In my case I've never felt the need for more stability. If I did, I'd go dually. I'm glad I don't have to as we like to do a lot of things where a dually just doesn't work for us. But safety would be the primary factor if I felt we were in any danger. So far, I don't see the need. For us. Everyone else has to decide for themselves.

I've never, ever, felt any tail wagging the truck in a stop or other circumstance. Not since towing triples, anyhow. That sensation was a major reason why I quit towing triples. It just didn't feel safe for me. Whole different topic and this is not meant to open that subject here.

My 2005 Ford F250 and my 2007 Dodge 3500 SRW are within 20 lbs of the same scaled weight, by the way. The Ford still has the numbers edge as most of its numbers are higher than my Dodge's numbers except the Dodge has a higher payload number (roughly 200 pounds, if I recall..would have to dig out the numbers again) and gvwr is 100 pounds more than the Ford F250. The Ford has the higher tow rating and gcwr (by 2000 lbs.). So my comments are intended to say that anyone who tries to tell me my Dodge 3500 SRW is safer than my 2005 Ford F250 (with airbags) hasn't thoroughly researched the subject. The numbers and the driving experience don't support that conclusion.
sreigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 01:43 PM   #18
richfaa
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
Whenever this topic comes up we get the same rhetoric from the same people, myself included. The thing is we are all pretty much telling the truth. we can pull just fine..Of course you can. We never had a problem stopping..of course not..since you never had a problem. The 250 and 350 are the same truck just a spring of a couple of tires different..Looking at tow ratings for the Ford truck, from Ford indeed the 250/350 are the same 23, 500lbs...5th wheel tow rating 15,200lbs.. So why do they make two different trucks... The tag on the drivers door tells the story. Mine says Front axle 6K//rear axle 9K GVW 13K.. CC 4268. That is my truck ..the CC is the big difference and if it is only a extra spring or a couple of tires..then that is difference and is why we got that particular truck. But Folks..there is a difference... If we have never had a problem....doing whatever we are doing or driving whatever we are driving or towing whatever we are towing....it is because...well...We have never had a problem...yet...
As for safety IMO it is about 20% truck and camper and 80% driver.




richfaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2009, 02:43 PM   #19
TLightning
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kville
Posts: 2,865
M.O.C. #7871
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by richfaa

Whenever this topic comes up we get the same rhetoric from the same people, myself included. The thing is we are all pretty much telling the truth. we can pull just fine..Of course you can. We never had a problem stopping..of course not..since you never had a problem. The 250 and 350 are the same truck just a spring of a couple of tires different..Looking at tow ratings for the Ford truck, from Ford indeed the 250/350 are the same 23, 500lbs...5th wheel tow rating 15,200lbs.. So why do they make two different trucks... The tag on the drivers door tells the story. Mine says Front axle 6K//rear axle 9K GVW 13K.. CC 4268. That is my truck ..the CC is the big difference and if it is only a extra spring or a couple of tires..then that is difference and is why we got that particular truck. But Folks..there is a difference... If we have never had a problem....doing whatever we are doing or driving whatever we are driving or towing whatever we are towing....it is because...well...We have never had a problem...yet...
As for safety IMO it is about 20% truck and camper and 80% driver.
Good advice.

As stated, any diesel will "tow" any Montana. However, the 3/4 tons cannot take the LOADED pin weight and all the other things we put in our trucks and remain within the manufacturer's specs...it's just that simple.

Do the numbers then decide if you want to remain within specs or don't care...it's your truck, you decide.

TLightning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2009, 03:19 PM   #20
Dean A Van Peursem
Montana Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Snohomish
Posts: 579
M.O.C. #5583
IMHO opinion pulling ability is not the most important issue. It is the GCWR, Payload(pin weight), Tire Rating and stopping ability(brakes) of the truck that shod be the primary concerns. We pull a late 2006 3400RL with a 2003 Ford F250 7/3L D LB SRW 3.73 rear end ratio and due to pin weight added air bags. The F250 SRW has handled the 3400RL admirably and without concern even with winds where we were eventually directed to leave the road by electronic road signs. And have experienced some nasty situations in traffic. However, all of the specs and capability get thrown out the window unless good defensive driving habits are used. The most important by far. 90% or more. Would I prefer to have a F350 Dually? Of course. But it wasn't and still isn't in the cards. I don't like the Dually's size and it has less traction when empty. In our particular case we run empty 90% of the time. But we have over 10,000 miles on the 3400RL in just over 2 years. If we were towing 80% of the time I would reluctantly consider changing trucks and then still might stay with the F250. YMMV.
Dean A Van Peursem is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Towing Question Roadster31 Tow Vehicles & Towing 9 08-25-2015 01:25 AM
Towing question cmawendy Tow Vehicles & Towing 19 02-03-2010 03:57 AM
Towing Question fernsco Tow Vehicles & Towing 17 12-10-2008 03:25 AM
Question on towing a car....... Ozz Tow Vehicles & Towing 8 04-07-2007 07:49 AM
Towing Question Montana_5470 Tow Vehicles & Towing 4 03-26-2006 12:12 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Montana RV, Keystone RV Company or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.