Formaldehyde levels in Keystone RV's - Montana Owners Club

Dean A Van Peursem · 07-11-2008, 07:48 PM

There have been several hearings in Congress recently concerning high concentrations of Formaldehyde in some Fema temporary trailers used with the relief efforts for New Orleans. Thor/Keystone was one of the 4 suppliers of these trailers.

As usual there is conflicting information about how serious this problem really was/is.

But.... here is my question. Since we have full/timers and/or 5 month or more winter RV users with many different living conditions and situations. Above 100 parts per billion seem to be a problem if residents exposed to for more than 30 minutes. The state of Indiana has established anything over 40 parts per billion is too much for the recent flood victims in Indiana. 400 to 800 parts per billion has been thrown around as marginally acceptable from other sources, so I don't know what is acceptable or not. Has anyone done any testing on the typical Montana models that we are living in for extended periods of time? And if so, what are the results?

Apparently there are test kits available from a few vendors based on a cursory google search. After listening to the congressional hearings for a bit, it has obviously been so completely politicized, whether anything of value will come out of these hearings is very suspect.

My guess is, this is more of a concern when new but since some of our units may be in storage for long periods of time they may not have out gassed completely. The ultimate test would be I suppose: Has anyone experienced symptoms or sickness that has been attributed to excessive levels of Formaldehyde in our Montana's?

Delaine and Lindy · 07-12-2008, 03:18 AM

We owned two Keystone products and two SOB. Have never had a problem with any 5er. We were full timing in both Keystone products and never had any problems. And the congressional hearings is just another forum for congressmen/women to grandstand and of course get nothing done, its a total waste of tax payers money. DW is very sensitive to many things and if there had been any odor of any kind I would have known. We have live in many different climate zones from Key West to Canada to Idaho and on the Mexican border, haven't Rv'ed in Cal. Ever other place it was awesome. GBY....

exav8tr · 07-12-2008, 03:45 AM

I bought a 12' X 60' Fleetwood mobile home (RE: Trailer) in the 60's and the smell was awful for the first month or so. Didn't have research back then on Formaldehyde. We bought our Montana in Sep '06, BUT the dealer kept it until May '07, (Winter stroage). It was closed up all winter......and never had a problem with the smell.

richfaa · 07-12-2008, 03:53 AM

The fact remains..Formaldehyde is used in the construction of RV's(and other building products) The fact remains that Formaldehyde is a toxic substance. The fact remains that under certain conditions formaldehyde can and does cause health problems among rv'ers. We have never had a health problem due to formaldehyde or any other oder in our rv's so I guess that means that the formaldehyde issue is not a problem and the industry can go on using it and if anyone of us suffers ill effects well..thats life...move on.. and this document means nothing and is only a scare tactic.

http://ohioline.osu.edu/cd-fact/0198.html

Steve and Brenda · 07-12-2008, 04:05 AM

First of all, what do you think "new car smell" is? Just get mad that we RVers pay good money for our dream and accept vapors from construction until they pass yet those who get trailers free - and some folks have lived in them for almost 3 years instead of finding permanent housing - complain about that free shelter.

My eyes burn when we go to RV shows the vapors are so strong yet I know that they pass when vented, why can't the GOVERNMENT figure this out instead of making this yet another issue for the nanny state whiners??

Mrs. CountryGuy · 07-12-2008, 04:29 AM

Our unit had some issues, we purchased in June 2003, took it in the first month to Rockingham County Virginia for memorial service for grandmother, it was HOT HOT HOT. Yes, we had issues with burning. I have experienced worse, but, it was there. We were running the air, of course, and I had to sleep with a window open right over my nose.

I don't remember how long this issue was an issue, but, it was most of that summer.

I have about 2 minutes flat to look over new units sitting on a dealer lot. Summer is by far the worse, the heat cooking and curing. SIGHHHHH

Sometimes I will experience same issues at a trailer show, but many of the shows we have attended are inside, in cooler weather, unit doors open for hours on end. No cooking and curing.

It is an issue, for me. Does not bother Al as much as it does me.

Our best hope, personally, would be that these hearings might point out to someone???? that this stinking is not good for us. that it might be better for ALL of our health to find new ways to manufacture carpet and walls and foam and whatever it is that they put in our homes, on wheels, the wheels that tote, or our stick builts.

SlickWillie · 07-12-2008, 04:54 AM

Check out this article. Looks like they might be a couple days late and several dollars short though.

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Steve and Brenda

First of all, what do you think "new car smell" is? Just get mad that we RVers pay good money for our dream and accept vapors from construction until they pass yet those who get trailers free - and some folks have lived in them for almost 3 years instead of finding permanent housing - complain about that free shelter.

My eyes burn when we go to RV shows the vapors are so strong yet I know that they pass when vented, why can't the GOVERNMENT figure this out instead of making this yet another issue for the nanny state whiners??

Nice show of compassion there. I suppose we should send all our money overseas to help those folks, and not do anything for our fellow Americans? If a natural disaster wiped out your town, would you feel the same? Believe me, I do not care for New Orleans, and I believe they received way too much attention, but I have visited some other areas that were destroyed by Rita and Katrina, and much of the area is still in shambles. Many of the folks were poor to start with, and lost everything they had. How do you get out of FEMA housing when you have no money, and the local economy has been devastated? JMHO

Edit: BTW, I do not mean I have no compassion for the people of NO, I simply don't like what goes on there. With all the attention focused there, many other folks suffered much than they should have. Visited there in 2003; will be my last visit. Again, JMHO

OntMont · 07-12-2008, 05:57 AM

Formaldehyde (and I used to work with it daily at one time) is a very common chemical used in the production of all kinds of products, (plastics, glues, foam insulation). It is not unique to RVs or to Keystone. Almost any new thing is going to give off formaldehyde, and ventilation is the best way to remove it. Over time the odours will go away. Dealers ought to give this some consideration when they receive a new unit. Our present trailer came to us almost directly from the production line, and we never noticed any odours in it, so different production lots may vary.

Interestingly, there is a big fuss in Canada right now because the Border Services agency (customs) are testing shipping containers at the port of entry and finding that almost all of them are over the limit for formaldehyde, and customs officers can't enter them to do their work, thus slowing down the importation of all those wonderful products that we import from overseas, although in this case it may be because formaldehyde is also used as a fumigant rather than direct emissions from the products.

richfaa · 07-12-2008, 06:20 AM

well I will tell you What. If our home town is hit by a disaster that kills hundreds destroys our home and causes thousands to be homeless we won't accept anything from those FEMA or Government folks.. so sire eee. No free food, no handouts, no disaster loans, No free lodgings Not even if it takes 3 or 4 years to rebuild.. Why just clear the wreckage away and put another house there. Should be easy to find other housing or jobs in a area that is completely devastated.No sir..no government hand outs for us.We are not those kind of folks. Why we will just move to someone else's town and find housing and a job there..I am sure they won't mind. What does our Government think it is doing helping us out in a disaster no matter who we are..terrible waste of tax dollars. We would not accept it...Who is with me...

Sunshine · 07-12-2008, 06:30 AM

OntMont - agree that the dealers ought to pay more attention to airing out the units when they receive them. Last year when we were shopping for a newer Montana, we traveled a considerable distance to a dealer near Portland that we knew would have a bigger selection of models than our local dealer. All of the units were so stinking with formaldehyde that my eyes and throat were burning and eyes were watering - finally had to stop looking. This dealer obviously had not opened the units to let them air out. Have never had that problem looking at units at the local dealer, which is where we ended up buying our newer Montana. That's not to say that there shouldn't be limits set that should not be exceeded.

Delaine and Lindy · 07-12-2008, 08:50 AM

We have several people who moved into our area after Katrina, and all seem to have done ok. The key to their doing well is just one word, they all WORK and didn't depend on the Tax payers to support them. Many in this country thinks the Government (Tax Payers) must take care of them. If you are unable to work, thats another story. We as Tax Payers should and will help them. There are many still living in those trailers or was just a few months back, I do think the Government had to force some out of the Trailers.

One of my many second jobs during my Army career was in Az in the early 70's. I work at a Mobile Home park setting down and hooking up the utilities for Mobile homes, and Formaldehyde was used in them. After they were delivered to the sites we had to open all windows for several days before we could rent them. And I lived in those MH. So you can get rid of the terrible smell. GBY...

Steve and Brenda · 07-12-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by SlickWillie

Check out this article. Looks like they might be a couple days late and several dollars short though.

...If a natural disaster wiped out your town, would you feel the same?...Many of the folks were poor to start with, and lost everything they had. How do you get out of FEMA housing when you have no money, and the local economy has been devastated? JMHO

As a matter of fact we did lose much of our home in 1995 and along with the many residents in the city of Grand Forks, ND had to relocate. The only thing we have in our home older than 1995 are photographs. The city chose not to REBUILD along the Red River, something I'm sure today's victims along the Mississippi in Iowa, Missouri and Illinois are considering.

I agree with Rich and others, when local economies fail or disaster strikes one should locate to where there are jobs and start over. Thats how Americans have done it for the first 190 years of our nation. More and more, we're becoming an oversensitive, nanny state hell bent on complaining. Ever read about Georgia's now offensive "MEN AT WORK" road signs? What about Dallas County's comments that the phenomenon "BLACK HOLE" is now racist? Yep, we're now a nation of whiners.

The original comment was about the outgassing of Formaldehyde and other chemicals as adhesives in the RV cure, something most RV owners accept as part of ownership of a new rig that vents quickly. If I can accept that for over $40K over my own money there'll be a small inconvenience so should others when the trailer is free.

richfaa · 07-12-2008, 09:56 AM

I am a bit shocked at how we seem to consider those victims of Katrina as sort of..they brought it on them selves and if they are still suffering it is somehow their fault and I doubt that even with all the insurance we have would be anywhere near recovered in 3 years. Most of these folks did not own homes but were renters and the owners have not rebuilt. Much of the area is still in ruins and unlivable. How easy is it to relocate to another city or State and start over when there are thousands trying to do the same thing. Why is it a bad thing that folks want to remain in a place where they have spent their entire lives and why is it a bad thing that our Government is helping them out. The Government has declared many parts of the country a Disaster area..what do we have against the folks in N.O. We also discount the formaldehyde issue as a "so what" It was only those folks in FEMA trailers..they got them free so stop complaining if we exposed you to toxic materials and did not warn you.The folks in N.O did not ask for that disaster and deserve all the relief our Government can give them. BTW my previous post was ,,if not noticed...about as sarcastic as you can get. . We spend Billions in relief aid all over the world....why not N.O and the formaldehyde is harmful and the issue needs to be fixed.

SlickWillie · 07-12-2008, 09:57 AM

Undoubtedly, some of us can take a lot harder financial hit than some of our fellow Americans. With that being said, I feel for you in your loss, especially family treasures that are irreplaceable. But...if we are to abandon every part of the country that suffers natural disasters, or has that potential, we might start to get a lot more crowded. Heck, we might need to make FL and CA National Forests. Much of the coast of TX has suffered destruction at one time or another due to hurricanes. (Not to mention a lot of the area we are talking about raises crawdads.)

What has the issue of racial or gender issues got to do with chemicals that are known to be toxic? I believe Gulf Stream even tested their units for Formaldehyde levels, and then tried to cover the results up. That picture of the RV executives in front of the Congressional panel reminded me of another one a few years back....Enron!

Delaine and Lindy · 07-12-2008, 10:19 AM

How many have done Volunteer work in NO, if so whats your opinion? I don't remember the exact amount of money spent on NO, but it was BILLIONS. What went wrong, who got the money? Who should be held accountable? Just what is the answer, what about the poeple of Greenfield Kansas the entire town was destroyed. They are rebuilding, and looks as if it will be a lot better. I am no engineer but I have been to NO and you can't build a house below Sea Level and expect nothing to happen, they were warned for years it could happen. It's sad for the people who has no way to rebuild but life will go on. There is no way I would rebuild there. Now lets here it from the Volunteers, what is going on there???? GBY....

richfaa · 07-12-2008, 10:23 AM

I have got to stop posting on this subject It is upseting... our tone is that we seem to be punishing those folks in N.O for being victims of one of the worst disasters in our history.

simonsrf · 07-14-2008, 06:00 AM

richfaa wrote:

Quote:

quote:Why is it a bad thing that folks want to remain in a place where they have spent their entire lives and why is it a bad thing that our Government is helping them out.

Could it be that they stupidly lived below sea level?

Could it be that they are unwilling to work/relocate/ or educate themselves to attempt to get out of a bad situation?

Could it be that we as taxpayers have to pay their bill for living in a dangerous place?

Could it be that they refuse to open up the windows on those free trailers to get rid of the formaldehyde fumes because it is easier to complain. Could it be they want different nicer trailers?

Let's just buy them motorhomes and build huge RV parks in those devastated "behind the levy" areas. They would have a nicer place to live and they could easily relocate at a moments notice.

Oops, forgot, we'll have to drill offshore so we can fill those motorhome fuel tanks.

And to stay on Dean's topic; we live fulltime in one of those Keystone formaldehyde ridden death-traps-on-wheels. No complaints, we worked hard and paid for our home. We bought insurance appropriate to our lifestyle and where we live. We opened our purses, our minds and the windows.

SlickWillie · 07-14-2008, 08:11 AM

The City of Renton, like all communities in the Puget Sound region, is susceptible to any number of natural or man-made disasters. These include earthquake, fire, flood or other technical disasters. (Paste from Renton, WA.gov site.)

Is it stupidity that makes anyone live in such an area? I would think not. Look at the fires in California; should we abandon that area. IIRC, New Orleans was not below sea level when it was first settled, but settlement of the land has resulted in much of the area being so now.

I feel pretty sure those folks didn't have any knowledge of formaldehyde, or it's toxicity. We're not talking about folks with PHD's here. RVs I've been in have poor air circulation at best, and I'm pretty sure those trailers didn't have Fantastic fans or such. Like Rich said, many lived in rental property, and much of that had terrible living conditions to start with. We spend billions of dollars to help those whose only desire is to destroy our nation, yet complain about the poor among us that need help. I will not hesitate to admit there was corruption involved in the relief efforts there, but do we not help the needy, or do we go after the corrupt individuals. JMHO

racerjoe · 07-14-2008, 09:55 AM

simonsrf, I hope you are just being sarcastic also.. To call them stupid,uneducated,and non-taxpaying is, I think a little out of bounds.
We have not walked in their shoes, and really can't understand the reasons why they stay,we also can't assume they are all these things. All I know I am glad it is not me or you that has to go through a devastating tragedy like that or the people who have lost there homes to other disasters.
I feel lucky to live in an area that we do not have to worry about losing everything we own when there is news of a storm coming.I can always wait for the snow to melt.

HamRad · 07-14-2008, 10:56 AM

Can anyone enlighten me on what "the nanny state whiners" is referring to? I've not heard this one before.

I feel that if the MFG ran tests and knew that the chemical levels were dangerous AND did not notify the government or the people that might be effected then they have can and must be held accountable.

If there is no clear data on this issue then they probably should not be held accountable. And Congress should establish what is and is not dangerous and pass laws that protect folks from any and all such dangerous chemicals. All as they relate to RV construction.

HamRad

You may also like: