Montana Support S- -Ks - Montana Owners Club

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 06:59 AM

Good Afternoon All

Just had my first opportunity to interface with Montana Customer Service. It concerned the problem of not being able to adjust my new 2006 3400RL to ride level.

When I purchased it in Nov, the front of the trailer was riding about 3" high when connected to the TV. The dealer suggested all I had to do was adjust the pin box or my hitch to get things right. We later found that the pin box was already installed at its most optimum height. When we adjusted the hitch, we were able to improve things but the trailer front was still approximately 1.5" high. Good enough I guess.

When I decided to have a Mor/ryde pin box installed, I was told it was not recommended because it would make the trailer front another 1" high. I was told by Mor/ryde to call Montana.

I called Montana Customer Support about the matter and finally talked to Craig. He essentially told me that since I didn't hook up to the trailer before I bought it - too bad for me. His smart response was that I should go buy another hitch or another TV.

My reponse is that I don't need that kind of crap! I suggest that all Chevy 2500HD pickup owners be aware of this situation because it seems clear that Montana is not willing to look into the matter.

I haven't been this mad in a long time!!!

richfaa · 01-13-2006, 07:22 AM

A word with Craig's boss is in order.

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 08:14 AM

Rich,

I have written an email to Team Montana. It will be interesting to see what happens! I wonder how long it will be before my remarks get censored from this website? Many times people do not like to here that things are not always rosy and cheery!

Kathi · 01-13-2006, 09:56 AM

No, rickfox, that is not true. We all like to hear the good and the bad here. There is a post about the stinking remote control thermostatgoing on right now, it is about 26 pages long and growing by the minute. There are a lot of negative thoughts on that thread. That thread helped me to realize that it wasn't me not reading the directions right. It was the stinking thermostat. We all have learned so much from this forum by the posts here. If you are sensored it will be because you have offended someone or language etc. Not because you have had a bad experience with Keystone.

richfaa · 01-13-2006, 10:59 AM

I for one want to see what the out come of your problem is because we are going to have the Mor-Ryde Pin box installed on our 3400 Montana(05 Ford 350) your issue has prompted me to call Mor-Ryde to see if I will have a problem..There is/was some truth to you "rosy and cheery" statement but I think that we have all learned that things can go wrong even with a Montana and this board is more tolerant to them being heard. There is nothing in your post that should warrant censorship.

Montana Sky · 01-13-2006, 11:14 AM

Rick,
Is there another dealership in your area? It seems to me that your dealership is not really trying to get this problem resolved. Another option would be to have your dealership set a few different hitches they install into the bed of your truck and see if maybe there is a lower riding hitch. I know you do not want to purchase another hitch but it might solve the problem. I also cannot imagine that Keystone has decided to switch back to the standard answer of "too bad we already got your money." For some time they seemed to be going out of their way to get problems solved the right way.

Also take a look at these two links from PullRite to see if their hitch will be low enough to correct the problem.
http://pullrite.com/super5_16.htm
http://pullrite.com/super5_lowpro.htm
The lowpro might not work for your application but thought it might be worth looking into. If you cant get any answers from the website, call Pullrite directly and tell them the problem you are having. This is an outstanding company who has gone out of their way twice now for me to get a problem solved.

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 12:27 PM

Montana,

I am happy with my dealer. I have discussed this problem with them and do not feel that they are in any way responsible. In a telephone conversation today, they acknowledged their surprise that Montana would act in such an arrogant manner!

When I told Craig - the customer service rep - (what a misuse of the term) that I would be expressing my dissatifaction on the Montana Owner's forum, he said (and I quote) "that won't do you any good, they can't fix anything for ya!"

I wonder if he is right. I don't expect this problem to be magically fixed just because I mentioned it here, but I hope he has underestimated the value and power of this forum!

Here are the facts!
1) There are only 2 bolt-on positions (high and low) for the pin box, and the Montana comes from the factory at its highest position - thus allowing for the highest positioned hitch.
2) Montana already knows this setting is still not sufficient to accommodate a number of Dodge TV models that sit too high to tow the Montana.
3) They are now shipping all Monty's with lower profile tires (which makes the problem worse)
4) They have changed the pin box for 2006.
5) My Chevy 2500 sits too high to tow the Monty level.
6) Mor/ryde does not recommend the use of their rubber pin box because it also makes the problem worse!

I think there is sufficient evidence here to support the following conclusion:

They know they have a problem, but are not admitting it, and their response to me strongly indicates that they don't plan to fix it!!!

Trailer Trash 2 · 01-13-2006, 01:08 PM

Rick, Please dont take this post the wrong way OK, I'm just throwing stuff out there. I dont see how you can blamed the problem on Keystone, being that your trailer sits low on the table of the hitch. I think the blame should go to the dealer that sold you the story that it could be leveled by relocating the bolts on the pin box. I had to adjust my table to the top bolt location but I still have room on the pin box, I have noticed that a lot of the newer trucks beds are much higer than my F350, which may be the problem you are experancing. My friend had the same problem when he got his new F-350 CC and tried to hook up his 5er. His old truck and trailer were tru as an arrow, untill the new truck, when he backed up his drive way the overhang would touch the trucks bed rails. he tried everything even had his axel fliped at the dealed he purchased it from he welded the new spring pads in the whole thing was done right. and his was still low after all that. Oh! his hitch was a reese 16 K nothing specal. I hope that your dealer can fix your problem.

TT2

Montana Sky · 01-13-2006, 01:51 PM

TT2,
Your coach and mine have different kingpins on them with many more adjustment options. I saw an 06 pin the other day and was pretty surprised at the lack of adjustment options on it.

Rick,
Is Lippert the maker of the kingpin? If memory serves me I think my kingpin has a sticker with the Lippert name and specs on it, if that is the case could Dale be of possible assistance. I am not blaming your dealership for the trouble, but after dealing with my dealership who has bent over backwards for me I was just surprised at their response.

Champ203 · 01-13-2006, 02:42 PM

this is a big concern with many of todays 5th wheels being pulled by 4x4 trucks. Its not just a Montana problem. Lowering the hitch/adjusting the pin box can only help some, the real adjustment needs to be made at the trailer axles/springs. My dad is in the market for a 5'er and has eliminated Keystone products as a possibility because there is not a factory option for changing the axle height (TV is a 99 Dodge 4x4 2500). On the other hand some manufacturers allow the trailer axles to be raised/lowered up to 4" (Jayco). I wouldn't give the dealer a deposit or sign any paperwork until I was happy with the "hitched" position when we took delivery of our unit.

Not sure what modifications you could make to raise the trailer on the axles or if it would be a safe thing to do.

Parrothead · 01-13-2006, 02:44 PM

I have one question, is 1 1/2" this big a deal?
Happy trails.................

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 02:54 PM

I hear what you all are saying.

To make sure all understand the situation, I am making the following comments.

The 3400RL sits high on my hitch. The pin box on the trailer was delivered in its highest position setting which provides the greatest compensation against the trailer sitting too high. My hitch is set to its lowest position (hitch is a Draw-Tite 16K which is a widely used brand). The TV is a standard Chevy 2500HD - a widely used TV model. It is clear that the 3400RL has not been designed such that it will ride level with this commonly used hitch and TV configuration.

I think the 3400RL should be designed to work properly with a commonly used hitch and with a commonly used major brand of TV. That's all I'm saying.

Such is not the case! This is a buyer be ware situation! Do not assume that your hitch and your TV will work as you might anticipate, even though it may work admirally with other trailer brands. Also, do not assume that the trailer you "ordered" will be the same design that is delivered! Montana states that in their brochure.

And do not assume that Montana will fix or admit problems! How long did it take for them to admit there were problems with the remote thermostats?

My wake up call is that I need to come back to reality and remember that I, and only I, am really interested in satisfying me. Montana's desire is to satisfy themselves. That is the way things work.

Investigate things the best you can, minimize your exposure, and realize that if you order a product and make a down payment, you get what you get.

Thus far, I am really happy with the trailer itself. I truely hope that other problems to not surface as I have little faith that Montana will stand behind the design of their product. Hopefully I am wrong.

I will compensate for what I think is their poor design by closely investigating my alternatives. Perhaps a low profile hitch is in order.

By the way richaa, I am currently looking at the Glide-Ride pin box. According to Hitchhiker personnel, they no longer offer the Mor/ryde pin box because of "rebound problems" (a spring effect) associated with its rubber pin box design. Hitchhiker is now offering the Glide-Ride pin box.

In a conversation with Glide-Ride, they told me that the drop down measurement (the distance the king pin is located below the pin box mounting holes) is 6" as compared to 6 3/4" for the Montana OEM box. If true this will reduce the front running high from 1 1/2" to 3/4", as opposed to the Mor/ryde pin box which makes things 1" worse!

Because of this, and the good reports I have read on the Internet, I will be ordering one in the near future. If it is as advertized, it will be the better solution for me, and for perhaps you also.

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 03:20 PM

Sorry to be so talkative but,

That is a great question Parrothead! Exactly my question also, until Mor/ryde recommended that I not install their rubberized pin box - since it would make the 1 1/2" move up to 2 1/2" - and suggested that I contact Montana about the problem. Isn't it funny that Montana is recommending that this same Mor/ryde pin box be used as a great add on. Who do I believe?

I have also considered putting 265 tires on the TV rear which currently comes stock with 245 tires. This increases the height to over 3". It concerns me that I can not make these changes without going against the recommendations of those smarter than me. I don't consider these changes to be unreasonable, and the pin box change is even recommended by Montana??

My original question to Montana was "Is something wrong here?" Their answer was "It's not our problem - it's yours!" I don't know what others think, but I surely don't call that acceptable customer and/or product support!

That's not what I wanted to hear when I'm sitting with a 2 month old Montana that I paid lot's of money for!

dsprik · 01-13-2006, 04:11 PM

That answers my question about the higher profile tires, Rick. Probably becomes a clearance problem between the tires of the front and rear trailer axles. Could rub on a rough road?

Montana Sky · 01-13-2006, 04:30 PM

Rick,
Check out this link. I think you have a traditional 16k draw tite hitch that has a vertical height adjustment of 15"-18". Take a look at the link for a Reese 22k hitch. It is more hitch than you need, but the vertical height is 13"-17" which might allow you to lower the hitch another 2" from your current 15" and would allow your coach to ride level.

http://www.reese-hitches.com/22k_5th_wheel.htm

Another hitch that goes even lower is the Reese 15K with height adjustment of 12.5" to 16.5"

Kathi · 01-13-2006, 04:51 PM

We have the 3400 and we have the Reese 22K hitch. Don't have any problems with the clearence. We chose that hitch because it was more then we needed. Just wanted to be sure. Maybe if we would have gotten a smaller hitch we would be having that very same problem? Who knows.

rickfox · 01-13-2006, 05:16 PM

Montana,

You are correct. The hitch I have adjusts from 15 - 18". I will have to look into what can be reasonably installed onto the Draw-Tite slider mechanism currently mounted in my TV.

I hadn't planned on having to install a new hitch. Such is life. By the way, due to regulations in our city, I have to park our trailer in a storage facility. I noticed today that most of the 5vrs have pin boxes that have multiple adjustment positions. Not Montana.

JH Sechelt · 01-13-2006, 06:17 PM

Rick

How much clearance do you have from the top of the truck box to the under part of the overhang on your trailer? Can you aford to drop the trailer down 2" closer to the truck ? or will it hang up on the truck box when you go over sidewalks etc. I have 6" between the two and I think you are suppost to have 7" or so.

John & Dawn

Montana Sky · 01-13-2006, 07:13 PM

Rick,
I can understand your frustration with this problem. I had searched the web and found the average price on those two hitches I linked was about $600. I know you would rather not spend any additional money on this after all, you just bought a new rv, but it might be worth the investment to solve the height problem. Keep us updated on the outcome, I hope you are able to find a reasonable solution soon.

Here is a link to a Reese slider hitch with adjustments from 12.5" to 16.5".
http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=5WH

Parrothead · 01-13-2006, 07:17 PM

We have a 15 hitch on our GMC 3500 and our 05 3400 sits perfect. Although I haven't gone out and made any measurements. But the Monty also did fine on our 95 Chevy 2500 it just wouldn't go up the mountains. We had a 15 hitch on the 95 also.
Happy trails......................

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