Montana Tour - Montana Owners Club

richfaa · 09-28-2005, 04:57 AM

Called Montana Customer service to confirm the tour times.Spoke to Linda. The Montana tours are now on Tuesdays at 2pm also for the next 6 weeks they are also on Thursdays at 2PM, The Cambridge tours HAD been on Thursdays at 2PM. Asked Linda if there was a chance that we could talk to someone from the quality assurance department while there.She immediately transfered us to corporate.Asked the same question to corporate and we were not on the line long enough to get her name before she transfered us somewhere else.The somewhere else was Ryan,The person who does the tours. Asked him about quality assurance and he said yes they had quality control but they would not be there during the tour as the plant was not in operation during tour time..but that he could answer any question we might have about quality..we have a very long list. He did ask our names and we gave them. Also asked us what dealer we were buying the 3670 from and we told him that. Helen and I are looking foward to the tour Oct 4th.This is the last step before purchase,Oh.. I did E mail customer service a while back and asked them the same question about tour dates and quality assurance...never got a reply..not that we expected to get one..just curious..

richfaa · 10-03-2005, 03:31 AM

We are off to the Montana plant today.Will stay in Elkhart overnight and tour the plant Tuesday at 2.Pm. It would be a beautiful few days for a camping trip but we no longer have a camper. We have a list of questions most , if not all of them relating to workmanship issues.We have the Digital camera and another list of things we want to see and document. There is a chance that several things could go wrong, and we want to see where these item are and how they are installed so we can repair them..Our dealer will be over a hour away at the minimum.EX.. where is the water pump, how is it installed, what will we have to do to quite it down..and... how come it is noisy in the first place????

dsprik · 10-03-2005, 10:09 AM

Look forward to your report, Rich!

Gonfishin · 10-03-2005, 10:59 AM

Rich, Cross your fingers and hope they have a 3670 on the line. While we were there for the Rally out of all the units on the line not one 3670 was being built.
Rick.

richfaa · 10-05-2005, 02:36 PM

The tour was great. We were interested in the 3400 and the 3670 and there were two of each in various stages of construction on the line.It would take pages and pages to detail what we saw and learned on the tour. We will just give you some bullets. Helen took many notes we can do better answering question you may have.The high lite of the Montana tour was that we got there early due to the strange time zones in Indiana so we jumped in on the Sprinter tour that had just started. The Sprinter plant was in full production so we got to see how the workers actually build the unit.Keystone uses the production line method in their plants.A worker or group of workers perform a task or group of tasks over and over again, day in and day out thereby becoming extremely proficient and their task making few if any errors and the result is high quality?????.
At the end of the line a group of workers use sticky notes with HOLD for ..whatever(proplems) and attach them to the Completed unit/I wondered how much they could see on a completed unit???Also with the above mentioned assembly line method..IF a worker should make a mistake..If that worker does not catch the error and correct it...who does???? Just a thought.

We did note that the workers were not rushed and appeared knowledgeable in their tasks.I am not saying I am a fan of that method but it seems to be working here. The Sprinter although levels below the Montana shows Keystone quality.

On the Montana tour we noted that ALL of negative issues we had listed had been corrected. Ryan our Montana tour person was very knowledgeable and took a lot of time answering my many questions.

As a added bonus we had a nice chat with Jeff Rank who just happened to be wandering around. Very nice person. He showed us a 3400 with a new wall paper color scheme that had just come off the line..first of its kind and asked us what we thought of it. As a guy My reaction was DUhhhhh..Helen however liked it. Called some other couples over who were on a tour and got the usual DUhhhh's from the guys but the ladies gave it a thumbs up. So look for a new color scheme..think you will like it.

The new service center, not yet complete is awesome.

In our conversation with various Keystones reps we found that they are very aware of quality issues and do their very best to keep quality at a high level. We were satisfied with all aspects of the tour and although we will not soften on quality control we will be ordering the new...3670RL soon.

As we were leaving we did mention to Jeff Rank that we were members of the MOC and his name came up often.Oh, he said,, (in good humor)..In vain I suppose..No said I... as the good guy..

Oh..forgot to mention..Got the very new 06 brochure the 2950 is gone and in its place is a new 3000RK.No one has seen one come off the line yet but the specs and floor plan are in the new brochure...

CountryGuy · 10-05-2005, 02:51 PM

Have said before, will say again, and you say it here, GO TO THE PLANT, GO ON A TOUR, it will give you a totally diffenent prospective of your Montana and how it is built! Also shows that Keystone does read this forum and does listen to it's users. They have made a number of changes that we personally know of, that were made, at least in part, on basis of what was said here at MOC.

Take all that, plus the fact that Keystone does stand behind their product and does not leave us customers flapping in the wind the day our warranty is over, plus the bang for the buck, that we all agree Montana has,

HOW CAN YOU LOSE???

Great report Rich!

Sounds like you had a great tour and a great day!

richfaa · 10-05-2005, 03:20 PM

Oh yes..We had been on the Montana tour July of 04 but saw it through different eyes after being a member of this Forum since Jan 05.Not only tour the Keystone plants tour others also so you can compare.They are all in the Elkhart area. Camp at the Elkhart fair grounds, plenty to do in the area. Tour all the plants, tour the area it would make a great week or so vacation.As we said before... We did not go out looking for a Montana, we did our homework, toured many plants and Montana found us. They are not perfect..none of them are...But when you look at quality, construction, Dealer service, dealer/keystone relationship and keystone service to you the customer.Keystone is a winner...

drhowell · 10-06-2005, 03:15 AM

Thanks Rich for the update. Typically on assembly line operations there is a quality control department or section (possibly just a lead person) that checks the work at each station. Usually they have a mandatory approval process before covering up an area that makes it impossible to gain access to make repairs or corrections. If Keystone has good experienced QC people they should keep their problems to a minimum. Might be a good followup question if you get the chance.

I worked in quality control at Boeing aircraft in Seattle for a couple years. Worked on the 727 & 707 sub assembly's and later on the final assembly's. Someone from QC would have to check every piece of work and approve before the next job could be started. Often we would actually double and triple check jobs that had been previously approved. Kinda checking the checkers type redundancy. Once in awhile we would find things someone else in QC had missed. Of course building airplanes is much more critical than building trailers. But QC is the key to a quality product and fewer customer relation problems down the road.

Anyway thanks for the tour update and glad to hear you are still buying a Montana. I respect your judgment just based upon reading your comments on the MOC and hope to meet you in person some day.

OH, I have wondered about the built in vac system also but my wife has done some homework on it and says it doesn't have the power to meet her requirements. She would only have a high end central vac added later if she had the option. Was not impressed with the ones Keystone was using.

sreigle · 10-10-2005, 05:18 PM

We were told during the tour that the quality guys go through the rigs after assembly and mark with tape anything they find wrong. I doubt they run water through the lines and look for leaks and the like, though.

CountryGuy · 10-11-2005, 03:05 AM

Steve,

They put some water in them, somewhere, for something. Last time we were in Goshen area, we took Mountaineer tour, Cambridge tour and Montana tour. Cannot remember which one it was, but small amount of water came gushing out of gray holding tank, right onto the plant floor. Almost nailed us!

Gypsy · 10-11-2005, 03:35 AM

richfaa - Thanks for the excellent report. I just want to comment that there was a finished 3000RK on display during the tour given for the folks who attended the Great Lakes rally last month. I was favorably impressed, as Keystone has managed to fit most of the amenities of bigger Montanas into a 30' rig, including space for a washer/dryer. Of course, they had to make trade-offs. One I noticed is that the refrigerator is totally inaccessible with slides in.

ronstan · 10-11-2005, 05:49 AM

Al and Carol If I remember right that was at the Montana plant on Saturday. At least that happened when we were there. Someone pulled the handle and the water came out.

richfaa · 10-11-2005, 06:00 AM

sreigle..We paid particular attention to the folks with the sticky tape while on the Sprinter tour since the plant was in operation.We noted that these were visual inspections inside and outside. We looked for anyone doing any checking on the line and noted nothing(not to say that it was not happening)Don't know about checking water lines..did not see any wet spots at the end of the line. The reply to how does quality control work was not really a reply but a statement..A worker or groups of workers performs a task or a group of task over and over again, day in and day out thereby becoming proficient in their task, making few errors and keeping quality high. That's exactly what we observed on the Sprinter line.The turn over at the Montana plant was 'very low"(no number given) so the workers must be satisfied .The report card on that approach can only be given by the Montana buyer. We have seen many assembly lines in our day and many worked or DID work in that manner.
The line in the manufacturing plant that is operated within our family has quality control checks at every phase of the manufacturing process www.alcomfgcorp.com and produces a zero defect product.

CountryGuy · 10-11-2005, 06:58 AM

Ron,

Might have happened on Saturday tour, during Rally, but I was sitting that one out, back at PlaMor with sick dog.

So, looks like it has happened more than once!

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