50 Amp Service - Montana Owners Club

Broome101 · 07-29-2005, 01:27 AM

I want to install a true 50 amp service for my Monty while parked at home. I cannot find a 50 amp single pole breaker anywhere. Is the 50 amp service in parks 240 VAC or 120 VAC. Does the converter split 240 and turn it to 120 VAC or how does it work. Anyone done this I would like to know how.

NJ Hillbilly · 07-29-2005, 02:27 AM

You need a 50 amp common trip 2 pole breaker. The service is actually 50 amps on 2 110v legs. I purchased a weaterproof receptacle at Lowe's for about $30. Make sure You run heavy enough wire to the box from the breaker panel. The correct gauge will depend upon how far the run is.

John

Broome101 · 07-29-2005, 02:53 AM

OK is it 240 then, need to know how to do it. Going to run the line about 100 feet give or take.

Montana_2785 · 07-29-2005, 04:10 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

OK is it 240 then, need to know how to do it. Going to run the line about 100 feet give or take.

Well, it is the exact same outlet and plug you would see for an electric stove in a stick house. Go to your favorite hardware store and look for a book on home wiring. I'm sure that Home Depot or Lowes has a book laying around that should cover "stove" wiring... Standard disclaimer: If you still feel unsure after finding directions, consider an electrician.

As far as the size of the wire, using:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/wiresizecalc.html

and plugging in 240V, 100 feet and 50 amps gives an answer of #6 wire. Thats some pretty heavy stuff..... If you want to shop for basic wire prices, keep in mind that you have two hot legs, neutral and ground (four lengths of #6 wire 100 feet long for a total of 400 feet of #6. That will be $%#@% heavy and a little pricey

)

For giggles and grins, here is a calculator that, given the size of the wire, length and amperage draw will show you what the voltage drop will be...
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

BTW: It looks like the allowable voltage drop is about 3%. Any more than that and you need heavier wire.

Enjoy.

Eric

Kathi · 07-29-2005, 04:25 AM

Ditto on all of the above. Paul said that the #6 or bigger is what you need. He said he doesn't think that they make aluminum wire anymore. So it would have to be the copper. And yes it will be expensive for the wire. But if that is what you need then that is what you have to have. Safety first.

Thunderman · 07-29-2005, 04:50 AM

Broome 101,
Have you considered putting in a receptacle for 30 amp? Would be less cost and perhaps as efficient. You would need the 50 amp to 30 amp connector to attach to your cord from the 5er, assuming that is what it is for. Wire size would be #8 I think. I have this at my home for the 5er and it works fine...matter of fact the a/c is running as this time on the 5er. Good luck!

Broome101 · 07-29-2005, 04:52 AM

My question still is does the camper convert the 240 VAC to 120 VAC or how does it work. I know I cannot run 240 through the coach.

Thunderman · 07-29-2005, 05:02 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

My question still is does the camper convert the 240 VAC to 120 VAC or how does it work. I know I cannot run 240 through the coach.

Broome 101,
It is my opinon the converter does not convert from 240 to 120. If 50 amp, one leg will carry 110 to 2 different places in your main breaker box.

Broome101 · 07-29-2005, 05:38 AM

Thunderman,
Yes I have it only 30 amp service now, my problem is I have a voltage drop issue on this newer camper than I did on my old one. Not enough voltage to keep everything running good, my voltage drop was down to 102 VAC yesterday and it cut off my AC and frig and wouldn't let anything but lights run. So my thinking is to run a new 50 amp service out to my camper at home under RV port that I have out in my side driveway. Trying to figure out exactly how to hook up the wiring if I go to 50 amp breaker at home in my sub panel that feeds my garage. Do I install 50 amp breaker and only hook up one leg to it? Does that give me 50amps, I just know.

Thunderman · 07-29-2005, 06:12 AM

Broome 101,
First I am not a electrician so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I think you need to install a 2 pole 50 amp breaker in the main box at your home. Then run your wire to the 50 amp receptacle making sure you connect the ground, neutral (white), and hot wires (black) to the proper terminals in your receptacle.
You should be able to use the 30 amp you have. Do you remember what size wire was used when the 30 amp was installed? perhaps the existing wire is too small.

Again I am not a electrician....hopefully one of our Montana buddies will come along who has more knowledge in regard to electricity.
Weldon

Montana_2785 · 07-29-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Thunderman

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by Broome101

My question still is does the camper convert the 240 VAC to 120 VAC or how does it work. I know I cannot run 240 through the coach.

Broome 101,
It is my opinon the converter does not convert from 240 to 120. If 50 amp, one leg will carry 110 to 2 different places in your main breaker box.

Broome, While it is true that "50 amp" service is 240volts, it consists of two 120V legs (or circuits). A 240V appliance will connect to both legs at once. Since we (RV) don't have any 240V appliances, we treat the 50amp service as two independent 120V circuits. Your converter will be drawing power from only one of the 50amp legs...

Thunderman, 50 amp service is, in fact, two 120V legs. Both legs are present inside your RV circuit breaker box. Now, if you have a 30amp service and you use a 30amp to 50amp adapter cable, THEN the single 30amp leg will be placed on the two 50amp legs inside the RV.
Eric

Broome101 · 07-31-2005, 12:50 PM

Thunderman, The wiring for the 30 amp service is 12/2 wire run about 110 feet. I found out that it's not big enough to handle what I want it to do, found out by AC not working good. Used multi meter found out the AAC voltage was at 105 VAC with AC on. When AC was on it cut off the frig and would not let it switch over to gas. Turned AC off guess what Frig came back on full bore, switched it over to gas to try it out worked fine. So I guess this new bigger rig is requiring more juice. Friend of mine who is electrical engineer said yeap that's a problem if I used regular old 12/2 outdoor wiring, should have been at least 8/2 according to him.

owenwetzel · 07-31-2005, 04:21 PM

If your 5er has a 50amp service it is wired for 240v. Also you probably have a 240 outlet in ceiling of closet that has washer/drier hookup. I have a 3280rl and the table between recliners has in bottom section 2 30amp breakers which is the main breaker for 5er. A 120v line runs to converter box. The 110v receptacle in washer closet runs from converter box.
If you do not have w/d a 30amp would be enough.

Montana_2785 · 07-31-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

quote:Originally posted by owenwetzel

If your 5er has a 50amp service it is wired for 240v. Also you probably have a 240 outlet in ceiling of closet that has washer/drier hookup. I have a 3280rl and the table between recliners has in bottom section 2 30amp breakers which is the main breaker for 5er. A 120v line runs to converter box. The 110v receptacle in washer closet runs from converter box.
If you do not have w/d a 30amp would be enough.

Owenwetzel,

There are NO 240V outlets in our RV's!!!

If that were the case, then the first time you used a 30amp to 50amp converter, you would ruin whatever 240V appliance you had installed.

While true 50amp service is 240V at the park plug, inside an RV we only treat it as two separate 120V circuits.

Eric

Montana_4221 · 07-31-2005, 05:48 PM

Broome101,
Have you considered upgrading or improving your present 30 amp service? With the distance you are going to run wire it would of course be much cheaper and unless you are running a clothes drier or two AC units it is unlikely that you will need 50 amp service while parked at home.

Good luck,
Michael

Montana_4149 · 08-01-2005, 05:08 AM

i have a 2 year degree in electronics and there is no camper that i know about wired for 240 volts 50 amp !! i have a 2005 2650rk it is wired for 50 amps also but this is at 120 volts so... DO NOT HOOK UP 240 TO A 120 VOLT IMPUT -or- you might as well call the fire department now !!!! DO NOT MESS WITH ELECTRIC IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING -IT CAN AND WILL KILL YOU !!!!

Broome101 · 08-01-2005, 09:21 AM

Eric you hit on it, is the plug at the parks 240 VAC and if so how does the RV splt it once you plug into it?

owenwetzel · 08-01-2005, 09:44 AM

Well gentlemen I have a 2000 3280rl there is a closet between toilet compartment and bed. In this closet the are hot and cold faucets and a drain line next to them is a 110v outlet. IN THE CEILING THERE IS A (I QUOTE FROM THE COVER OF RECEPTACLE)Leviton 30amp 125/250 volt 4 wire outlet. I took the cover off and it has a red, a black, a white, and a bare copper wire to ground all are no. 8 wire if that is not a 240 outlet then my electrical experience has taught me wrong. Oweners manuel did not mention this at all.

NJ Hillbilly · 08-01-2005, 09:48 AM

The plug at the pedestal is 120/240v. This means that there is 4 wires, 2 110v hot, 1 Common(white) and 1 Ground (green). This means that 110 volts can be utilized from either hot lead.
A stick home elecrtic dryer (or at least many of them)is a 30 amp 220v circuit. It has only 3 wires so it is a dedicated 220v outlet and not 110/220. Many have seriously damaged their campers by plugging (adapting) into this circuit. There is not a white or common leg to this type of circuit.

So to answer Your question, there are 2- 50amp 110v legs to supply power at a 50 amp receptacle. When You use a 30-50 amp adapter there is a jumper wire that commects the 2 hot legs together so both sides of the RV's panel are supplied.

Hope this helps,

John

NJ Hillbilly · 08-01-2005, 09:50 AM

Owen, I never saw that before. Is there a 30 amp double pole breaker in Your panel?

John

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