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05-20-2006, 02:53 AM
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#41
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Dave,
Unfortunately for me I won't be in mine very much until our business sells. Now on the other hand this will be hubbies home while is away adjusting insurance losses.
I can't wait until I can say I am out there either working with him or traveling. All things happen for a reason so I am being patient.
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05-20-2006, 02:54 AM
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#42
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Sounds good Colleen..The pre PDI is a real good Idea..wish I could take credit for it but it comes from my FAA days . Would suggest that you provide your dealer with a copy of the PDI and the Pre PDI items that you will specifically look for.Our dealer had gone over evey item before we got there for the pre PDI and we only found a couple of add on items on the pre PDI.Our actual PDI was perfect. Since May 5th we have found no major issues. I would add check for loose/ stripped hinge screws on all the cabinets..it is a easy fix but inexcusable form the factory. Also check where pipes go down through the floor into the front compantment..pull the panels on the side of the bathtub and note the gapping holes to the front compartment..foam insulation does the trick..again inexcusable from the factory. Also the water line to the commode..we could see daylight...foam again..You will need a couple rolls of gorilla tape to seal the underbelly where it attaches to the frame..we get the artic insulation package then theyleave the windows open also a lot of tie wraps small med and large/ There is a lot of wire and cable dressing to do//little things that denote a rushed assembly line but after two weeks of "cleaning up) the Montana is looking good...
We are very satisfied with the Montana as you will be with your choice. Remember //it is the dealers responsibility to provide you with a "perfect off the lot" unit (before you write the final check)..it is your responsibility to see that you get just that. Are we just talking to hear ourselves talk...no...ours was perfect off the lot..it took time and work on our part and a good dealer...
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05-20-2006, 03:25 AM
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#43
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Specifically, you are talking about the mass of wires around the furnace/waterpump area, aren't you, Rich?
Also, when at the plant, I forgot to check on those brake wires. They should be gathered up and all taped together with electical tape to keep them away from the brake drums, wher many have had them rub and then short out.
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05-20-2006, 03:28 AM
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#44
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Montana Fan
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sunnyskies
Posts: 145
M.O.C. #5656
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I would suggest that you make sure that the factory or dealer, install the fix for the sealand toilet PRIOR to taking delivery. See my post in maintenance regarding the toilet.
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05-20-2006, 03:48 AM
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#45
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wetumpka
Posts: 4,936
M.O.C. #1105
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Congratulations on your choice of a Montana. I enjoyed looking at your website for your kennel. It looks like a beautiful place and we hope it sells quickly.
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05-20-2006, 03:48 AM
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#46
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Rich,
The PDI list that you used was the beginning list one of those that Carol posted the link to. I know that you added to your list as people had problems with their Fv'ers.
I do plan on going over everything as closely as I can. I will add the things that you just posted to my list. The one thing I am not understanding at all is the wearing of the wire that is showing up on the brake control. Can you tell me where these wires are located.
We will go over today and start looking at the furniture, roof etc. Afterwards I will try to compile a list to give to the dealership so I can then meet with the Service manager for a pre PDI and then I we will have the final one before our check signing. I hope they won't hate me before all this is done. My biggest fear is that he gets out on the road and something goes wrong while he is living in it full time. He barely has time to eat, so I know he won't have time to play Mr. Fixit or take it in for warranty work.
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05-20-2006, 05:44 AM
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#47
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Colleen..You are the one spending 40K plus..It is the dealers responsibility to satisfy you. You posted to me what the dealer is charging for the PDI/ Prep..you need to see that he earns every dollar of it. crawl under the camper and look at the rear of the wheel. you will see wires coming from the underbelly into the brake drum. These wires need to be properly connected...give them a yank..if they come apart in your hands..bad thing..they also need to be positioned out of the way so they can not rub anywhere...tie wraps... Dave..yes that bunch of wiring was a rats nest..took a bunch of tie wraps and sticky tape. The Water pump is screwed to the floor and I don't see a easy way to get at it and insulate it from the floor. We have not yet pulled the fuse/ breaker panel to see what may lurk there. but I know the dealer did to install the 2nd A/C and check for loose connections was on my PRE-PDI.. So far so good and I am learning a lot about where things are in the 3400...
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05-20-2006, 05:46 AM
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#48
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by FulltimeFollies
I would suggest that you make sure that the factory or dealer, install the fix for the sealand toilet PRIOR to taking delivery. See my post in maintenance regarding the toilet.
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I called the sealand folks as per your post and they said they had corrected that issue..don't know at what date..ours does not leak...Yet//
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05-20-2006, 05:19 PM
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#49
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Well we spent 3 1/2 hours looking and inspecting the the Fv'er today. Thanks to the PDI I found several trim issues, in fact one of them I put my finger on it and it popped the trim next to the bedroom sliding door. There were a few scratches on cabinets etc, so I asked what I could use or what would they use to fix them. None of them were horrible gouges, but heah I haven't written the check. Hubby climbed up on the roof and came back down to tell me that there was a hole in the roof What a smart alec he is, he was only kidding.
I did find damage to one of the decals on the left side and said that it was very noticable. Not sure what happened, but the tear is about the size of a half dollar. The salesman said he would have to order a decal, that is on my list for them to do. So far they, the salesman, is telling me that all of my concerns will be addressed. I didn't find a hole from the bathroom sink to the cargo area. I did see where there were some small gaps where they had attached the siding on the bottom of the FV'er. I couldn't see any of the wires that you guys were talking about. I told the salesman that I wanted the gasket replaced in the shower and the toilet fixed. Hope I haven't shot myself in the foot on the toilet. It looks like ours came off the line April 4, 2006. I did mention the problems with the wiring near the brake drum and my concern about the waterlines. I inspected the furniture and I must say that I was disappointed in what we are getting. The couch is fine, but the recliners are IMHO poorly put together. One of the recliners has a tear in the back of it. I told them that we wouldn't accept it as it is, to give us a refund or order a new one. Since we would probably take one of them out so hubby could put in a temporary desk, we will probably take the money. After looking at the recliners in the Desert Sunset FVers that material is alot better than the Sapphire group, again IMHO. I am sure that we will have to replace the recliners or the recliner after a couple of years. The dinnette chairs had threads hanging from all over. The window treatments have threads hanging as well. I realize that this isn't a Mobile Suites, but heck someone could have cut the threads. The furniture and window treatments won't keep my from buying it, but when you start looking close at the cosmetics on somethings I think they are cutting corners. On the windows it is just the drape part that is ratty, not the material on the valance. If I was ordering everything I would probably order without furniture and put my own in. Also for those that have one on order check out the headboard, it is screwed in and when I was checking it the screw pulled out of the wall.
We didn't get to check anything mechanical as we didn't have power to it. I will present my interior and exterior list to the salesman along with my request about the wiring etc. The salesman said that he would schedule a 2 hour PDI when we sign the papers.... I told him I don't think that will be long enough.
Have any of you had them check your LP gas detector during your PDI. That was one of the things that was suggested that we do. It says that they sould have a canister that would set it off so you could check it and then they could show you how to reset it.
If any of you can tell me more about the guts under the Fv'er, that I need to check, I would appreciate it. I can also say that with the windows and the door open that we weren't overly hot even with 94 F weather. I was surprized that it was as cool as it was without an AC on.
I know I am forgetting some things and not editing this as I am tired and it is late.
No screws loose on the cabinets, but we do have the aluminum rims that have to be replaced, they are in the cargo area as I type.
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05-20-2006, 06:08 PM
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#50
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 5,933
M.O.C. #4282
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Don't for get the flashlight... =)
Driftwoodgal, I believe that you are going to need a minimum of 5 hrs to do a thorough PDI. I am a little concerned that your salesman thought he could do this in two hours... OR that he tried to limit you to two hours...
I agree on the furniture. We are REALLY hoping our Venetian Gold WILL be well put together (we are waiting for it long enough). On any of the other decors, we (I?) had already resigned myself to the fact that we would be replacing them quickly. This is the design we would have gone out and replaced the other decors with.
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05-20-2006, 06:18 PM
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#51
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Dave,
On the unit that was at the dealershp your decor looked like it was better contstructed than ours. It might be that because it isn't a mass produced item you will get a better product.
The salesman hasn't really had anyone that has ever done a really through PDI, he hasn't limited us on a time. Thanks to this board and the posters I am having a heads up on what to ask and expect. That probably isn't a good thing for the service department. I will how ever have the Manager of the Service Department doing our PDI personally. If something goes wrong then there won't be any finger pointing.
I would look at ALL of my furniture when you get your FVer and make sure that you don't have any tears etc. There are lots of loose threads oh our chairs and a big tear in the recliner. We will not except the recliner as it is, they will either have to give us credit for it, or order it ship it and get it to us. I won't be driving over to the dealership to pick it up. Hopefully we will get a credit that matches the pain that it will be to get us a new one.
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05-21-2006, 07:21 AM
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#52
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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Driftwood Gal..we spent the better part of 8 hours on the pre-pdi..I would guess at least 5 hours of serious work..I did do lunch) We did the actual pdi as if we have never done the pre pdi..started from scratch..we got to the Dealership at 10:30Am pulled out of the lot at @ 4Pm. I will say that the pre-pdi cut down the amount of time for the PDI because many of the issues identified on the pre..had been corrected. Schedule 5 hours for the PDI
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05-21-2006, 09:19 AM
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#53
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Rich,
Since we didn't have any power or water to the Fver we will have to wait until it is moved up to the service area to open slides, check all of the electrical outlets, lights and fixture, hot water heater etc. We did check every window and window treatment, shades, carpet, water lines, roof, decals, furniture. Every thing that we could do without power. We didn't open up the awning as the wind was blowing pretty hard. It will be interesting to put the awning out as hubby is only 5'5" and I am 5'6", we will have to have a step ladder for the right side of the awning.
I am emailing our salesman a list of all of the things that I want him to do from our visit yesterday, along with the things that have been addressed here on the thread about the wiring and the holes, gasket and toilet.
Anyone have them test the gas detector in their presence?
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05-21-2006, 09:47 AM
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#54
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wetumpka
Posts: 4,936
M.O.C. #1105
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The slides will open without electricity.
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05-21-2006, 09:56 AM
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#55
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Driftwood
Posts: 1,376
M.O.C. #5446
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Judy,
Are you serious? Don't you have to have some sort of power source? The Fver doesn't have a battery in it yet. I guess I have more to learn!! We can't open our slides on our KZ without the battery or electricty. When you use the battery it drains them.
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05-21-2006, 10:57 AM
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#56
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
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We open the slides all the time, ON BATTERY POWER, Believe what Judy meant is that you do not have to be hooked to shore power. Our battery does NOT drain when we open the slides, could be a weak battery on the KZ, or they might use more juice to accomplish the open and close. That said,we cannot open, close, open, close a number of times and not recharge the battery in between.
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05-21-2006, 12:03 PM
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#57
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Montana Master
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oceanside
Posts: 20,028
M.O.C. #20
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I haven't read the entire 6-page thread but Vicki told me Carol had asked about our slide toppers.
First, I did read the initial post and a few replies. If it hasn't already been noted, washer and dryer, whether stack or combo, are not available from Keystone, unless that has changed recently. They do put in a washer/dryer prep, for extra cost, and I highly recommend that. We got the prep and had the dealer purchase and install the washer/dryer stack for us prior to delivery. We have never been sorry.
On the slide toppers, ours were factory installed in July, 2002. This Montana has never been under cover of any kind other than trees (with birds, if you know what I mean). For our 38 months of fulltiming these toppers have been open except when on the road. They have dealt with 112 degree heat in Death Valley (very recently), with five below zero fahrenheit, with snow up to 12 inches and with ice to maybe an inch. They have withstood some really nasty winds when I thought something had to give.
In the past few months I've noticed some cracking in the top layer of the toppers, especially on the longest slide. It is degrading. I have covered those places with eternabond roof tape to prolong the life of the toppers. That seems to be working.
Eventually we will have to have the awning material replaced. We're probably not too far from having to do that. But we will do it. To us the toppers are worth every penny. I never have to crawl up on a ladder or the roof to sweep off the tops of the slides. It also shades the top of the slides.
This is purely my experience with our slide toppers and my opinion as to their value. Each person has to decide for themselves whether slide toppers is right for them.
Good luck. I hope to find some time to get back and read all the replies to your questions. I'm kinda behind at the moment.
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05-21-2006, 01:02 PM
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#58
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Montana Master
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wetumpka
Posts: 4,936
M.O.C. #1105
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Carol is correct. I should have said that the Monty doesn't need to be plugged into shore power to open the slides. I'm surprised that it does not have a battery yet as it is necessary to support the breakaway switch that activates the electric brakes, if necessary. If the unit has been towed, it almost has to have a battery.
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05-21-2006, 01:42 PM
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#59
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Montana Master
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Tipton
Posts: 3,646
M.O.C. #191
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Judy, that is a good point, wonder if the haulers have a battery that they use and then take back out of the rigs??? We have a hauler here, oh, I am so sorry, I forget his user name, shame on me. But, maybe he could answer that for us.
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05-21-2006, 02:32 PM
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#60
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Montana Master
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Ridgeville
Posts: 20,229
M.O.C. #2839
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The Montana's do not come with a battery from the factory but it is common practice for the dealer to provide ONE battery as part of your purchase price.Sounds like you are doing well Colleen..Remember..Keystone, in their PR said that their quality is " second to none" We should expect no less.Zero defects off the lot is your goal. I should have mentioned this before about when to schedule the pre-PDI.Normally the dealer will bring the camper up to the service area 3 to 4 days BEFORE the Official PDI for the normal dealer prep .We co-ordinated with our dealer so that our camper was powered up for the pre-pdi. Make sure all tanks are filled with water for the pre-pdi and leave them filled till the official PDI (Leak check) Helen and I are also horizontally challenged so we have a 6 foot ladder for assistence. A word on Steve.S evaluation of the slide toppers..I do not believe there is anyone anywhere that uses a camper harder than Steve.S. In my book they set the standard for "how does it hold up"
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