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Old 05-21-2012, 08:07 PM   #1
mem
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EMS doesn't like Honda generator-"open ground"

We just tried using our Honda 2000 generator with our EMS-equipped 3400. The generator worked fine last year with SOB trailer and no EMS; this time when we tried to use the Honda, we got the E2 (open ground) message from the EMS, which cut off power from the generator.

Reading the archives, I found that someone else had had a similar problem a couple of years ago; the suggested solution was “make a pigtail and bond the neutral and ground together.” This apparently solved the problem, and I assume it would solve our problem, too, if we had any idea what this means and how to do it (or have it done for us).

Is this a separate piece of wiring that would be in line between the generator and the trailer? What materials/equipment do you need and how do you make it?

Thanks so much for your help...it’s tough to boondock for several days (as we plan to do here regularly in Alaska) without a generator, so we are desperate for a solution.

Margaret
 
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:31 AM   #2
CORattler
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Don't know what kind of EMS you have but mine has a switch on the wired remote that I use when connected to the Honda that allows use of the Honda supplied power without modifying anything on the Honda. If you don't have a remote, the switch may be on the EMS itself. If you don't have the switch capability then you may have to go the wiring route. Maybe the EMS manual can help with the question as well. Let us know what your solution is. Good luck!
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LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:46 AM   #3
H. John Kohl
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by CORattler

Don't know what kind of EMS you have but mine has a switch on the wired remote that I use when connected to the Honda that allows use of the Honda supplied power without modifying anything on the Honda. If you don't have a remote, the switch may be on the EMS itself. If you don't have the switch capability then you may have to go the wiring route. Maybe the EMS manual can help with the question as well. Let us know what your solution is. Good luck!
Jay,
I looked at your signature and see you have the Progressive Industry EMS. It is my understanding the switch on the wired remote display shuts down the EMS or puts it in a bypass mode so when you use that switch you have no EMS protection when powered off the generator. I intend to go with the wiring route.

Margaret,
You stated "you have no idea what you need to do" and that is a great statement. With that statement get an electrician or RV shop to make the cable for you. Since you are dealing with 120 VAC a wrong wiring job could be deadly or a fire hazard.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:48 AM   #4
mem
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Thank you for your answers. Our Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C manual says that the bypass switch on the remote "allows AC power into the RV in the event of a computer failure; it does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled." If there's someplace else in the manual or in a separate remote manual about flipping the switch when connected to a generator, we missed it, so never thought to try it.

Jay, thanks for letting us know that this is the solution with your Honda. Are the "features that are disabled" the power info about voltage, currency, frequency?

John, thanks for your concern about our safety. We do not intend to muck about with something as dangerous as electricity if we don't know what we're doing. I asked for clarification about making a pigtail, not necessarily in order to make it ourselves, but in order to know exactly what was meant by it so we could (somewhat) intelligently discuss it with an electrician. The electrician who installed our EMS was someone we knew and trusted who was familiar with trailers, EMS, etc. Before approaching someone we don't know here, knowing exactly what's needed to solve the problem (if, in fact, we do need the pigtail unit) would make us feel more confident that the person would create just what we need.

Thanks again for your prompt responses.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:58 AM   #5
H. John Kohl
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My pigtail would consist of a Male plug compatible with the generator.
About three or four feet of wire capable of handling 30 amp service.
A box (preferably waterproof) and the 30 Amp female socket compatible with your 30 amp trailer plug. I would make the jumper modification in the 30 amp box and use this pigtail only for trailer use.
Good luck.
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:04 AM   #6
mem
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John, thanks so much for taking the time to spell out the specifics!
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:39 PM   #7
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Yes, the info and all other protection is disabled when I use the bypass but surge protection is still enabled.
The Honda supplies excellent steady power to the degree that a computer can be plugged into it directly without concern. After reviewing the output specs, I have little concern about needing the EMS for reverse polarity, frequency protection or open neutral issues. I've used it this way for 2 years with zero issues.
That said, just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it never will. John Kohl's advice to seek a certified electricians input is solid.


Quote:
quote:Originally posted by mem

Thank you for your answers. Our Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C manual says that the bypass switch on the remote "allows AC power into the RV in the event of a computer failure; it does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled." If there's someplace else in the manual or in a separate remote manual about flipping the switch when connected to a generator, we missed it, so never thought to try it.

Jay, thanks for letting us know that this is the solution with your Honda. Are the "features that are disabled" the power info about voltage, currency, frequency?

John, thanks for your concern about our safety. We do not intend to muck about with something as dangerous as electricity if we don't know what we're doing. I asked for clarification about making a pigtail, not necessarily in order to make it ourselves, but in order to know exactly what was meant by it so we could (somewhat) intelligently discuss it with an electrician. The electrician who installed our EMS was someone we knew and trusted who was familiar with trailers, EMS, etc. Before approaching someone we don't know here, knowing exactly what's needed to solve the problem (if, in fact, we do need the pigtail unit) would make us feel more confident that the person would create just what we need.

Thanks again for your prompt responses.
__________________
2010 3150RL
LevelUp, Dual 6 volt batteries, Progressive Industries EMS HW50C, Honda EU2000i Generator, Bridgestone Duravis R250 tires, Torklift Glowstep Revolution Stairs, LED Tail lights
2015 RAM 3500 Laramie SRW LB CC Cummins 6.7L Aisin Trans B&W RVK3600
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:56 PM   #8
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Let me precede my information by saying that I do not have the hard-wired setup (mine is portable and connects to the pedestal) and so when we run our generators, we do not have the problem that you are experiencing. That being said, according to extensive reading of forums on the internet (read that how you want), the solution seems to be to purchase a male 15 amp plug and wire the neutral to the ground. Then insert the male plug into the 120 volt outlet on the generator.

This may not work if the 30 amp outlet and the 15 amp outlet are not wired together. If you try this, let us know how it works.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:20 AM   #9
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What you are experiencing is called "bonding". If you do an internet search you should find lots of information about this little known requirement and includes much of what's posted here so far. I think the best solution is to get the adapter made. If you are electrically savvy you can make the cable yourself, just make sure the bonding wire is the correct gauge.

This is my plan but we've only needed the generators a couple of times for short periods. We also don't go out very often and don't use the rig as much of many of the members who've posted here.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:30 AM   #10
bighornram
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This is a topic that I have only briefly entertained in the past but in the last year I have visited more campgrounds than in the past. Previously I was mostly boondocking and this was not a huge issue for me. Now, since I've been staying at campgrounds while traveling this thread has rekindled my interest. Where do you wire in the hardwired progressive ems? The plug for the rig (3400RL) is in the back. The power converter etc in in the head. Other electrical is in the front compartment. Can anyone elaborate on connectivity? I am genset prewired and plan to add the Onan.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:26 AM   #11
H. John Kohl
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If you want to protect all power provided including from your generator then you put the EMS between the output of your transfer switch and your circuit breaker panel. On one 3400 NCFischer installed it under the steps or you can put it after the output of the transfer switch. If you only want to protect from the power plug then you put it between the trailer socket and the input to the transfer switch in the front basement by the batteries.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:25 PM   #12
gregdan24
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I did not make a "pigtail", but did buy a male plug end and wired the ground and neutral terminals inside the plug. Insert that into an open 20 amp outlet on either the regular or companion Honda generator and the Progressive EMS doesn't complain.
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